Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Hardened Armour
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 21:31:58 +1000
If a critter has Hardened armour, does it get 1/2 its armour to resist
damage, in addition to its Bod dice? like vehicles? Also does it get its Bod
taken from the weapons power, like a vehicle. It doesnt really say in the book.
Under hardened power it just says the critter has armour euivalent to vehicle
armour.
Come to think about it, how about a human in military class armour?

Damion
Message no. 2
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hardened Armour
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 16:30:09 +0100
In reply to MILLIKEN DAMION A .....

> If a critter has Hardened armour, does it get 1/2 its armour to resist
> damage, in addition to its Bod dice? like vehicles? Also does it get its Bod
> taken from the weapons power, like a vehicle.

The critter resists against a TN of power - (body + armour). It gets to
roll body + 1/2 armour in a resistance test. So the answer is yes treat it
exactly like a vehicle, now you can see the problem you have when trying to
shoot things like gargoyles and dragons. They get to roll 10 + dice and
usually only have a TN of 2. That's if the armour wasn't so great that it
exceeded the power of the weapon, in which case an attack does nothing.

> Come to think about it, how about a human in military class armour?

Yep, see FoF te milspec armour.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 3
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Hardened Armour
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:46:09 +1000
Phill writes:
> > Come to think about it, how about a human in military class armour?
>
> Yep, see FoF te milspec armour.

So a human in Mil Spec armour gets their Bod subracted from the power too?
And they get 1/2 the Armour Rating added to their Bod Dice when resisting?

--
Damion e-mail u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.0) GE d@ h s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ [Unix] P? !L !3 N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !v(--) b++ D+ !b e+ u@ [House]
f+@ 1r n--(----)@ !y+

PS the [Unix] is 'cause I don't know what type I use (can anyone help me?) and
the [House] is 'cause I live in a Uni College and I don't know exactly where
that fits. I will fix them up (and delete this annoying little PS) ASAP.
Message no. 4
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hardened Armour
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 15:47:33 +0100
In reply to MILLIKEN DAMION A .....

> So a human in Mil Spec armour gets their Bod subracted from the power too?
> And they get 1/2 the Armour Rating added to their Bod Dice when resisting?

Ermmm ... I suppose so, the rules don't say anything different. Don't forget
though that your combat pool gets seriously fragged wearing one of those suits.
They're designed for taking shots rather than dodging out of the way.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 5
From: "A.R.Gay" <cs6004@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Hardened Armour.
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 13:33:35 +0100
I have been useing the rules on harden'd armour for a bit, and
have now come up against a bit of a problem. This is the
interpretation of the rule. Here is what it says in SR II Pg
108 regarding Vehicles with hardend armour. (I have included the
errata corrections.)
"In attacks against vehicles with armour, the armour acts
as a barier rating. This is if the base power of the weapon,
unmodified by burst or full-auto, does not exceed the vehicles
armour, it will not penetrate."

I accept that that part is prety straight foward, but do I
subtract the armour rating from the power of the round?
This is especialy important, as one of my players was fireing a
Sniper rifle(Dam 14D) at a great western dragon,(Body 10/8). so
is the target number for the body save 14 (as it ecceded the
armour rating and penetrated.) or 6 as the armour is subtracted
from the power?

This one may have been done already while I was away, so please
humour me.

Jackfrost
cs6004@***.ac.uk
Message no. 6
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Hardened Armour.
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 01:33:20 +1000
JackFrost writes:

[Vehicle armour?]

Heh, heh, vehicle armour, a topic close to my heart. Well, not quite, but I
often ask questions on here about vehicular armour.

As of the last discussion, maybe a couple of months ago, we worked out
vehicle armour like this:

Case 1: Base Power <= Vehicle armour rating

Jack snot & bugger all happens. You don't get to damage the armour,
you do not reduce it like a barrier rating, you do shit all.

Case 2: Base Power > Vehicle

A] If the weapon is a normal (non-armour piercing) weapon

i) Reduce Damage catagory by one. If the weapon is rated at
light, it does no damage.
ii) Subtract Vehicle Armour rating _plus_ Body rating from
the weapons power. Minimum of 2. (It is likely here that
near on all weapons will have a resultant of 2)
Power-(Vehicle Armour+Body)
iii) Roll Body+1/2Armour against the target number determiend
above. Round down.
Body+(1/2Armour) vs. target determined above.

B] If weapon is an armour piercing variety (eg, AVM/R, or half the
weapons out of FoF)

i) Do not Reduce damage catagory by one.
ii) Subtract 1/2 the Vehicle Armour Rating from the Power of
the weapon. Round down.
Power-(1/2Armour)
iii) Roll Body+1/2Armour against the target number determined
above. Round down.
Body+(1/2Armour) vs. target determined above.

Note that the rules seem contradictory, on page 108 it says, in reference to
armour piercing weapons "Those weapons have a semiarmor-piercing warhead and
do not have their Damage Level reduced, but the Power is reduced by the
vehicle's armor." While on page 99, it says "Against AVRs, the Barrier
Rating of a barrier is halved (round down), as is the Armor Rating for
vehicles (round down)." Now, we decided to make use of the rule on page 99,
but it does get a bit deadly if your vehicle gets hit with an armour
piercing weapon.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+) !tv(--)@ b++ D+ B?
e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Hardened Armour
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 00:27:02 +1000
Mark Steedman writes:

> Armour 20 (hard) and 44 (soft), enough to bounce any weapon in the
> game except the heavy straffing rockets uless you load fancy ammo and
> if you want the thing to need something other than twos to stage it
> down you better consider a rotary autocannon loaded with APDS, now
> where are you going to find one of those. (and no the army won't lend
> you one).

But take a standard AVM. Armour piercing, so the Power is only reduced by
1/2 the hardened armour rating, that's it. The great dragon with 20 armour
gets to subtract 10 from the 16D attack, and ends up taking 6D. That's not
good. There are plenty of armour piercing weapons in FoF, maybe not easy to
get ahold of, but hey, great dragons are rare, and the odds of getting into
combat with one are pretty damn slim at the best (especially getting into
combat on _your_ terms :-)).

> Yep thats hard dragons all right.

It's either that or have them pitifully wussy. I'll take the "dragons are
tought and grunty" approach any day.

--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 8
From: max.trebilcock@******.net max.trebilcock@******.net
Subject: Hardened Armour
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:59:18 +0330
Hi List,
I've been looking at the rules in the Cannon Companion about
Hardened Armour and this question came to mind.

Gel Packs turn conventional Armour into Hardened Armour, now if
a Runner was to wear a Gel Packed Jacket over an Arnoured Vest
would that convert the Vest to Hardened as well.

The reason I ask is that Armour is treated as a single entity in
damage reduction especially without the use of hit locations.

How do people deal with this?

Max


Visit The Path Of The Arcane:
< http:\\freespace.virgin.net\max.trebilcock\max1.htm >
Message no. 9
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Hardened Armour
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 12:29:34 +0100
According to max.trebilcock@******.net, on Wed, 27 Dec 2000 the word on
the street was...

> Gel Packs turn conventional Armour into Hardened Armour, now if
> a Runner was to wear a Gel Packed Jacket over an Arnoured Vest
> would that convert the Vest to Hardened as well.
>
> The reason I ask is that Armour is treated as a single entity in
> damage reduction especially without the use of hit locations.
>
> How do people deal with this?

Since the only effect of hardened armor is to completely negate an attack
with a Power Level less than, or equal to, the armor rating, this is simple
enough: first of all, check if the attack's base Power Level exceeds the
hardened armor rating; if not, the attack bounces. If it does, use the
normal layering armor rules to find the total armor rating and subtract
that from the Power to gauge damage normally.

For example, an armor jacket with gel packs (5/3 hardened) over an armor
vest (2/1). An attack with Power Level 5 or less will bounce, while other
attacks have their Power reduced by 5 + 2/2 = 6.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Happy Easter.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Hardened Armour
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:20:36 -0000
>From: max.trebilcock@******.net
>Gel Packs turn conventional Armour into Hardened Armour, now if
>a Runner was to wear a Gel Packed Jacket over an Arnoured Vest
>would that convert the Vest to Hardened as well.

I would allow them to treat it all as hardened for the sake of a quiet life;
mixing normal and hardened armor sounds like a headache on toast to me.

>The reason I ask is that Armour is treated as a single entity in
>damage reduction especially without the use of hit locations.

I've spotted your mistake; you're trying to apply logic to the SR armor
system :)>. In SR, having steel toecaps helps you resist being shot in the
back. The way I run it, all shots are assumed to hit the torso unless
something would indicate otherwise (the height of the monowire, a called
shot etc.)

Phil

Dying is an art like everything else.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Hardened Armour, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!