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Message no. 1
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:56:28 -0400
Well, here's the story, as told by my semi-local RPG pusher...err, I
mean, store owner.

Store owners can order hardback or softback in whatever quantities they
want. The "special edition" can only be gotten with an order of 25, and
this is the aforementioned signed version. I've heard nothing about
gold-plated leather-bound copies, however there was something about 1 in
every *200* being bound in Dunkelzahn's hide. ;)


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>



"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

"Crushed to death IS natural. Walls fall on people and kill them all the
time. I just make the walls a little more aggressive about it!"
--Cinder the pyrokinetic/psi, on natural causes of death


http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:15:44 -0400
At 03:56 PM 7/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, here's the story, as told by my semi-local RPG pusher...err, I
>mean, store owner.
>
>Store owners can order hardback or softback in whatever quantities they
>want. The "special edition" can only be gotten with an order of 25, and
>this is the aforementioned signed version. I've heard nothing about
>gold-plated leather-bound copies, however there was something about 1 in
>every *200* being bound in Dunkelzahn's hide. ;)

Until I hear it straight from FASA, sorry, I don't believe it. Rett has
NOT mentioned, and I've specifically asked him, about any sort of special
edition, signed or otherwise. The only special edition SR3 is the plain
hardback, currently available only at GenCon.

And that is the current official story from FASA.

It is possible they are not telling me the truth. It is possible they are
making information available to distributors first before telling us.

But all things considered, some of which I haven't detailed, I have little
reason to *not* believe what Rett tells me. I'm not claiming we're buddies
or anything, but I haven't yet been given any indication that he would lie
to me.

Jett, I strongly suspect that your local "pusher" is under the same
delusions that El Bandit's distributor was.

Again, I advise everyone to make a point of checking FASA's website on a
semi-regular basis; Rett has told me and several others that news regarding
SR3 would be posted there at some point in the near future. I have further
put on my PR counsel hat and advised them to make their announcement
sooner, rather than later.

So stay tuned. The Truth is out there and it will eventually be revealed.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 3
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:38:35 -0400
Erik Jameson wrote:
Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:15:44 -0400

> It is possible they are not telling me the truth. It is possible they are
> making information available to distributors first before telling us.

It may be possible that they are trying to ensure that they don't have
Hordes of RNers storming their booth in the first minutes of GenCon
trying to get a copy of the "Limited Ed."

I'm not claiming that they would or are lying, but if they are this
would be the most likely reason. And I would agree with that reason.

> Erik J.

<snip sig>

--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
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W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------
Message no. 4
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:50:23 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-24 15:46:22 EDT, you write:

> Well, here's the story, as told by my semi-local RPG pusher...err, I
> mean, store owner.

I actually ask all of my gaming store clerks how it feels to be drug
dealers... if they don't get it (when I'm spending about $100 in a shot), I
normally don't go back there...

Nexx
Message no. 5
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:23:04 -0400
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;

>So stay tuned. The Truth is out there and it will eventually be revealed.

OK, the scenario you should really expect out of the 25 to 1 ratio
is the the _Distributors_ will be getting that ratio and _they_ can break
that up to sell to retailers at any ratio (if any) they choose until
supplies run out. Distrubotors (and anyone ordering direct) are the ones
to have to buy in quantities (SR2 was 20 books per case IIRC), retailers
don't. So please stop getting your panties in a bunch over this whole
ratio thing. As the consumers we shouldn't even see this process. It's
this knowledge that is bothering people when it shouldn't.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

I am MC23
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:34:30 -0500
>>So stay tuned. The Truth is out there and it will eventually
>>be revealed.
>
> OK, the scenario you should really expect out of the 25 to 1 ratio
>is the the _Distributors_ will be getting that ratio and _they_ can break
>that up to sell to retailers at any ratio (if any) they choose until
>supplies run out.

Could you fill me in on this whole conspiracy theory? I'm trying to
integrate into this crew, and it's not easy jumping into the middle of a
conversation sometimes....
Message no. 7
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:53:46 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:23 AM 7/25/98 -0400, MC23 wrote:
> OK, the scenario you should really expect out of the 25 to 1
ratio
>is the the _Distributors_ will be getting that ratio and _they_ can
break
>that up to sell to retailers at any ratio (if any) they choose until
>supplies run out. Distrubotors (and anyone ordering direct) are the
ones
>to have to buy in quantities (SR2 was 20 books per case IIRC),
retailers
>don't. So please stop getting your panties in a bunch over this whole
>ratio thing. As the consumers we shouldn't even see this process.
It's
>this knowledge that is bothering people when it shouldn't.

As a consumer though, I know for a hard fact that my local stores are
fairly low volume, and as a result, low priority customers from their
distributers' standpoints. How do I know this? Because I've seen them
regularly dicked over by the distributers.

In the past I've had items specifically put on special order, and when
the boxes arrive, the invoice lists the order, but number of pieces
actually shipped was 0. I've watched my store have to wait months to
sell enough of a certain distributer's product before they could
justify making another order, because of the high "Minimum Order
Price" enforced by the distributer.

If a distributer has say, 5 hardbacks, and several stores in the
region have requested them, then what stores would have a better shot
at getting them? The big city stores that order 10 softback SR3s at a
shot, or my small town store that is maybe going to order 2 softback,
and has 2 customers who have requested hardcover editions?

I will keep my panties nicely bunched, thank you. Especially since
FASA's slowness to announce a decision either way on selling Hardbacks
on the website, means I have to now commit to sending a check off to a
total stranger, to pick me up one at Gen-Con. And then, if two days
later, FASA does announce that the books will be made available on the
website, then I have to contact that total stranger, and let him know
I don't need him to pick me up a copy anymore, and could he please
send my money back?

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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 8
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:00:51 -0600
At 23:34 24/07/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Could you fill me in on this whole conspiracy theory? I'm trying to
>integrate into this crew, and it's not easy jumping into the middle of a
>conversation sometimes....

This whole thread is just about the confusion as to what formats Shadowrun
Third Edition will be published in. I've heard so many conflicting rumours
from several reputable sources that at this point I've just asked somebody
to pick up a copy for me at Gencon, no matter what format it's in, and FASA
will send me my comp copy when they get around to it, and I'll have two
copies, or three, if I keep Brad's.. <g>

-Adam J
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
Message no. 9
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:03:22 -0500
>...I've just asked somebody
>to pick up a copy for me at Gencon, no matter what format it's in,
>and FASA will send me my comp copy when they get around to it....

It's this second bit that fascinates me. How do you rate a comp copy? And
how would I get involved with that, so that maybe someday I'll rate a comp
copy, too...? <g>
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:54:45 +0100
Patrick Goodman said on 23:34/24 Jul 98,...

> > OK, the scenario you should really expect out of the 25 to 1 ratio
> >is the the _Distributors_ will be getting that ratio and _they_ can break
> >that up to sell to retailers at any ratio (if any) they choose until
> >supplies run out.
>
> Could you fill me in on this whole conspiracy theory? I'm trying to
> integrate into this crew, and it's not easy jumping into the middle of a
> conversation sometimes....

There have been a lot of questions about whether SR3 will be
released in hardback edition to the general public, or if it will only
be available at GenCon. So far we've heard:

1) For every 25 copies of SR3 a game store orders, 24 will be
softcover and 1 will be hardcover (this is what people have been
told by game store owners);
2) Hardcovers _may_ be available through other means (keep an
eye on FASA's web site);
3) Both hardbacks and softbacks will be on general sale, but
there will be a special, limited "gold" edition as well (this has
been denied by FASA's marketing dept.);
4) the 24:1 ratio is right but probably goes for distributors
instead of retailers (a theory advanced by someone on this list).

and possibly one or two other theories I can't remember right
now.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:06:58 -0400
Once upon a time, Adam J wrote;

>This whole thread is just about the confusion as to what formats Shadowrun
>Third Edition will be published in. I've heard so many conflicting rumours
>from several reputable sources that at this point I've just asked somebody
>to pick up a copy for me at Gencon, no matter what format it's in, and FASA
>will send me my comp copy when they get around to it, and I'll have two
>copies, or three, if I keep Brad's.. <g>

I've never heard anything about a comp copy although I would
certainly not refuse one. I must have an extra shelf copy of the rules
anyway. B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 12
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:19:06 -0400
Once upon a time, Patrick Goodman wrote;

>>...I've just asked somebody
>>to pick up a copy for me at Gencon, no matter what format it's in,
>>and FASA will send me my comp copy when they get around to it....
>
>It's this second bit that fascinates me. How do you rate a comp copy? And
>how would I get involved with that, so that maybe someday I'll rate a comp
>copy, too...? <g>

You've got to be a Shadowrun Bad Ass.

<flexes muscles>

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.

I am MC23
Message no. 13
From: "Mark C. Farrington" <alareth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:25:34 -0400
>>...I've just asked somebody
>>to pick up a copy for me at Gencon, no matter what format it's in,
>>and FASA will send me my comp copy when they get around to it....
>
>It's this second bit that fascinates me. How do you rate a comp copy? And
>how would I get involved with that, so that maybe someday I'll rate a comp
>copy, too...? <g>

Adam has been the envy of us all for some time now as an SR3 playtester.

Alareth, Acolyte of the First Church of the Squooshy Ball
Message no. 14
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:13:20 -0500
>>How do you rate a comp copy? And how would I
>>get involved with that, so that maybe someday I'll rate a comp
>>copy, too...? <g>
>
>Adam has been the envy of us all for some time now as an SR3 playtester.

Ah, I see. Spaceba.
Message no. 15
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:21:29 -0500
>3) Both hardbacks and softbacks will be on general sale, but
>there will be a special, limited "gold" edition as well (this has
>been denied by FASA's marketing dept.);

Gold edition? I can think of nothing less useful to my world. There would
have to be a *lot* of extras and not just gold filigree on the cover to make
something like that worthwhile to me.

As long as I actually have a copy of the rules, I'll be quite happy.
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:36:32 +0100
Patrick Goodman said on 17:21/25 Jul 98,...

> Gold edition? I can think of nothing less useful to my world. There would
> have to be a *lot* of extras and not just gold filigree on the cover to make
> something like that worthwhile to me.
>
> As long as I actually have a copy of the rules, I'll be quite happy.

I like to have a copy of the rules in a book that won't fall apart in
half a year, for which I'm happy to pay a little extra. But I've
never liked artificial collectables -- the "Only 1,000 will be made
so it's sure to be a collector's item!" syndrome that seems to
affect a lot of things these days (just take a look at current Star
Wars merchandising).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hanging on to letting go.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Knight Rook Shadow Dancer <shadowd@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:55:44 -0700
Gurth wrote:

> I like to have a copy of the rules in a book that won't fall apart in
> half a year, for which I'm happy to pay a little extra. But I've
> never liked artificial collectables -- the "Only 1,000 will be made
> so it's sure to be a collector's item!" syndrome that seems to
> affect a lot of things these days (just take a look at current Star
> Wars merchandising).
> [snip sig]

I'll second that. One of the main reasons that I bought the softcover BBB2 was
that I'd seen how well a friend of mine's HB fell apart. One of the most
irritating things that I've experienced as a RPG'er is having a book literaly fall
apart on the same day I bought it. Unfortuately the only companies that I've seen
completely avoid this are Palladium and Phage Press (The Amber DRPG). Personally
I'd pay a bit more for a book with some sort of protective covering on it that was
similar to contact paper. (I currently add it myself) If I know that a book isn't
likely to stay in one piece though,... well I'm more likely to wait for a edition
that will.

--
Knight Rook Shadow Dancer *** ICQ:1007993 *** shadowd@********.com
http://members.tripod.com/~KnightShadowDancer *** brabradl@****.edu
\\______________)=====================================================
The world is full of people who will get you from behind, let me handle
them. You keep your eyes on what's ahead.
- Lisa Ortiz as Deedlit in Record of Lodoss War
Message no. 18
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:42:48 EDT
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Knightrook, your reply-to feild is overriding the list.

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From: Nexx3@***.com
Return-path: <Nexx3@***.com>
To: brabradl@****.edu
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:41:30 EDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 26/07/98 05:05:32 Central Daylight Time,
shadowd@********.COM writes:

> Unfortuately the only companies that I've seen
> completely avoid this are Palladium and Phage Press (The Amber DRPG).

I believe Palladium consistently uses two binding techniques (stitching and
glueing) to keep their books from falling apart. Due to a very embarassing
incident, I actually wound up washing one of my Palladium books (it was inside
my backpack, and I forgot to check that pocket). Since the bag protected the
paper, I was able to dry it out and can still use it, the binding still
perfectly good (even though the book looks like crap).

Personally, I'd like it if FASA would start using this... as my SR books see
more and more use, they're starting to show it a lot more than my Palladium
books.

Nexx

--part0_901478568_boundary--
Message no. 19
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:14:23 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> Patrick Goodman said on 17:21/25 Jul 98,...
>
> > Gold edition? I can think of nothing less useful to my world. There would
> > have to be a *lot* of extras and not just gold filigree on the cover to make
> > something like that worthwhile to me.
> >
> > As long as I actually have a copy of the rules, I'll be quite happy.
>
> I like to have a copy of the rules in a book that won't fall apart in
> half a year, for which I'm happy to pay a little extra. But I've
> never liked artificial collectables -- the "Only 1,000 will be made
> so it's sure to be a collector's item!" syndrome that seems to
> affect a lot of things these days (just take a look at current Star
> Wars merchandising).
>

The other point is that special edition "Collectibles" are never worth
as much in the long run as stuff that everyone but a few smart people
throw away because they don't think they'll appreciate. There's
generally fewer of these items than there are "limited print to only
1000!", hence they become more valuable.
As for the gold edition, I doubt I'll be shelling out, either.


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>



"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC


http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:22:45 +0100
And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>>So stay tuned. The Truth is out there and it will eventually
|>>be revealed.
|>
|> OK, the scenario you should really expect out of the 25 to 1 ratio
|>is the the _Distributors_ will be getting that ratio and _they_ can break
|>that up to sell to retailers at any ratio (if any) they choose until
|>supplies run out.
|
|Could you fill me in on this whole conspiracy theory? I'm trying to
|integrate into this crew, and it's not easy jumping into the middle of a
|conversation sometimes....
|

That's why it's always a good idea to mainly lurk in a list you're new to.
Then you start to pick up on things. Like threads, illegal threads, and what
a good THWAPPING means....

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 21
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:28:19 -0500
>That's why it's always a good idea to mainly lurk in a list you're new to.
>Then you start to pick up on things. Like threads, illegal threads, and
what
>a good THWAPPING means....

You're quite the charmer. They have O levels in how to behave like a boor,
or do you have to get A levels for that?
Message no. 22
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:06:12 +0100
And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>That's why it's always a good idea to mainly lurk in a list you're new to.
|>Then you start to pick up on things. Like threads, illegal threads, and
|what
|>a good THWAPPING means....
|
|You're quite the charmer. They have O levels in how to behave like a boor,
|or do you have to get A levels for that?
|

Well... Who's got the attitude problem here then?
Offer a little friendly advice and what happens?

I only offered it because you seem to have jumped into at least 3 threads
asking "What's going on? Duh!"

Oh, and O levels don't exist anymore (and the only ones I do have are in
chemistry and biology, although a few CSEs count as 'O's, I have no
A-levels, and start my final year of a Computer Science degree in October.

Answer all your questions?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 23
From: Knight Rook Shadow Dancer <shadowd@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:32:26 -0700
Nexx Many-Scars wrote:

> Knightrook, your reply-to feild is overriding the list.

Whoops!! Sorry about that everyone. I just "upgraded" to Win '98 and forgot to
reset my settings.

> I believe Palladium consistently uses two binding techniques (stitching and
> glueing) to keep their books from falling apart. Due to a very embarassing
> incident, I actually wound up washing one of my Palladium books (it was inside
> my backpack, and I forgot to check that pocket). Since the bag protected the
> paper, I was able to dry it out and can still use it, the binding still
> perfectly good (even though the book looks like crap).

Well, that's certainly the most extreme case I've heward of, but I have seen quite
a few different Palladium books get caught in the rain or some such and come out
of it in a usable state. A good not in this vein is that I've covered quite a few
of my SR books with some pretty heavy contact paper and they seem to hold up a lot
better. (I have yet to have one fall apart) I even had my copy of Bug City
survive getting caught in my backpack in the back of a truck when it rained.
Granted the pages aren't as flat as they used to be, but after being dryed out and
pressed under my other SR books for a while it's hardly even noticable.

> Personally, I'd like it if FASA would start using this... as my SR books see
> more and more use, they're starting to show it a lot more than my Palladium
> books.

Very much agreed on that.Althogh I'm not certain of it, it does seem plausable
that Phage Press uses the same binding company since they are both out of the
Detroit area and Eric Wujic is involved with both.
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\\______________)=====================================================
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Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:12:27 +0100
Knight Rook Shadow Dancer said on 2:55/26 Jul 98,...

> > I like to have a copy of the rules in a book that won't fall apart in
> > half a year, for which I'm happy to pay a little extra. But I've
> > never liked artificial collectables -- the "Only 1,000 will be made
> > so it's sure to be a collector's item!" syndrome that seems to
> > affect a lot of things these days (just take a look at current Star
> > Wars merchandising).
> > [snip sig]
>
> I'll second that. One of the main reasons that I bought the softcover BBB2 was
> that I'd seen how well a friend of mine's HB fell apart.

Erm... The bit I wrote was meant as a way of saying I like
hardbacks over softbacks, because hardbacks last a lot longer
(over 5 years for my SRII hardback against some 9 months for
the SR1 softcover I used before that).

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Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:12:27 +0100
Jett said on 16:14/26 Jul 98,...

> The other point is that special edition "Collectibles" are never
worth
> as much in the long run as stuff that everyone but a few smart people
> throw away because they don't think they'll appreciate. There's
> generally fewer of these items than there are "limited print to only
> 1000!", hence they become more valuable.

Plus, what's the point if you're a gamer rather than a collector?
When I buy a rulebook, I buy it so I can use it during the game,
not to put it on my shelf in a plastic bag so it won't get damaged
(okay, so my copy of the UB is in a plastic bag, but that's mainly
because I want to keep the books together).

One good thing is that the gaming industry hasn't sunk as far as
Kenner yet.

> As for the gold edition, I doubt I'll be shelling out, either.

Assuming they exist, I might if they're sold for the same price as
the normal hardback, or within only a few dollars of it (say, 5).
Anything more than that and I'd go with a regular hardback.

--
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-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 26
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hard facts on the hard back.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:49:37 -0400
At 11:12 AM 7/27/98 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:

>> As for the gold edition, I doubt I'll be shelling out, either.
>
>Assuming they exist, I might if they're sold for the same price as
>the normal hardback, or within only a few dollars of it (say, 5).
>Anything more than that and I'd go with a regular hardback.
>
Not to add fuel to the debate and discussion, but, here's my thoughts...

BTW: These are only pieces of rumours that I've collected and pieced
together, so take them for what they are, Rumors...

One of the rumours (Uncomfirmed) at Origins is that there was some sort of
Special Edition that is either leatherbound or Gold. Doesn;t matter which.
Basically, there are only 1000 made. These are used as Special Prizes for
things like Tournaments (Rumour was that the winners of the Origins Tourney
got one each), playtesers get a copy, and of course all the
writers/producers of the book get copies. They are not sold, so they are
not a publicly available item.

Basically, yeah, as far as a gaming item they're basically no different
than a regular book, possibly even less so cause it's a coollectors item,
but... let's face it. WHile we can all go and say "WHat goods a Gold Copy
if I gota real one?", there is a definate cool factor involved :]

But then, I'ma collector at heart, so... :]

Anyways, that's my take on it.

A) Don;t worry about it. If it's true, you either will be getting oe or
you won;t. Not much you can do now for it. Except maybe win the Gen Con
Tourney.

B) It's a rumour. may not be true, or may be something completely
different. Either way, once again, nothing you can do about it so no sense
worrying about it.

C) Who cares :] Unless of course it's got a better binding than the
regular copy or the HB :]

Bull
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