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Message no. 1
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:34:10 -0500 (EST)
Gurth writes:

> Not Ehran -- Ambrose is much younger than Harlequin, I think. Harlequin
> calls him "pops" (as in "father") but he says that "pops
from you counts
> as irony, I think," and later there's some things that seem to suggest
> Ambrose has been brought up in a christian environment (when Harlequin
> jokes about Christmas, Ambrose says "don't blaspheme"), which to me just
> about rules out that he's seen the Fourth World.
> However, who this guy _is_ supposed to be, I don't know...

Actually, I think we're looking at the wrong clues. I'm pretty sure now
that it IS Ehran, thanks to a quote someone pointed out in r.g.f.cyber.

Ehran would call the "pops" line ironic because Harlequin himself is very,
very old. H & E had the same teacher, so they're probably about the same
age. "Don't blaspheme" may be just because Ehran is a serious type of
person, and wants Harlequin to show respect for the belief system. It was
sort of a throwaway line anyway.

But the real giveaway is when they're talking about children. The Laughing
Man accuses Ambrose of sending a child away to grow up on its own.. Ambrose
says something to the effect of "Well, I was watching, after all." They're
talking about Jane Foster, Ehran's bastard daughter, who grew up as an
orphan in Columbia, Missouri. (Cf. the original _Harlequin_.) I think that
reference was just too specific to mean anything else.. And yet it was
subtle enough that none of us caught it right away. >8->


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
My opinions are my opinions. | "Never trust a smiling Game Master."
Please don't blame anyone else. |
Message no. 2
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:39:35 +0100
S.F. Eley said on 1 Dec 95...

> Ehran would call the "pops" line ironic because Harlequin himself is very,
> very old. H & E had the same teacher, so they're probably about the same
> age.

I still think it means Ambrose is very old too, but still a lot younger
than Harlequin. A spike baby, or something.

> But the real giveaway is when they're talking about children. The Laughing
> Man accuses Ambrose of sending a child away to grow up on its own.. Ambrose
> says something to the effect of "Well, I was watching, after all." They're
> talking about Jane Foster, Ehran's bastard daughter,

I thought Jane is a female name? :) Ambrose says "I was there, almost the
whole time, caring for _him_" (I added the emphasis). I think that rules
out Jane Foster -- I have this feeling Ambrose's child is an otaku or
something close to one, and that he kept an eye on the kid in sort of the
way Lucifer looked after Renny. But Lucifer died (didn't he?), so he can't
be Ambrose.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'd like to be immortal. But only or a while.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:49:07 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
>S.F. Eley said on 1 Dec 95...
>> Ehran would call the "pops" line ironic because Harlequin himself is
very,
>> very old. H & E had the same teacher, so they're probably about the same
>> age.
>I still think it means Ambrose is very old too, but still a lot younger
>than Harlequin. A spike baby, or something.

Hmmm... Could be... There is a couple of clues to Ambrose's identity,
like they speak of someone named Will Blake, I don't know if he shows
up anywhere else, but it looks to me like it was left there purposely...

>> But the real giveaway is when they're talking about children. The Laughing
>> Man accuses Ambrose of sending a child away to grow up on its own.. Ambrose
>> says something to the effect of "Well, I was watching, after all."
They're
>> talking about Jane Foster, Ehran's bastard daughter,
>I thought Jane is a female name? :) Ambrose says "I was there, almost the
>whole time, caring for _him_" (I added the emphasis). I think that rules
>out Jane Foster -- I have this feeling Ambrose's child is an otaku or
>something close to one, and that he kept an eye on the kid in sort of the
>way Lucifer looked after Renny. But Lucifer died (didn't he?), so he can't
>be Ambrose.

Ooooooh... he's got a point... I don't know... The first time I read
through this, I got the general feeling that Ambrose was a dragon... I
don't know why, just kind of an attitude. But the statement in page 23
makes me think different. Whatever Ambrose is, he's definately lived
since the fourth world. He seems very detached, except where it comes to
Horrors, where he seems to be very afraid. (Be afraid. Be very afraid.)

Okey... 'nother question... What is "IT"? My bet would be on some sort
of AI, but it seems to be on a higher level than normal AI. It is obviously
behind the Otaku, but what kind of an entity is it?

And one more. What relation do you suppose there is between AI, otaku, and
UV hosts? There looks like there is some, but don't know what...

>>>>>>>>> Nate, who actually _does_ own a sourcebook.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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Message no. 4
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 14:07:00 -0500 (EST)
Nathan Walker writes:

> Hmmm... Could be... There is a couple of clues to Ambrose's identity,
> like they speak of someone named Will Blake, I don't know if he shows
> up anywhere else, but it looks to me like it was left there purposely...

*sigh*
Any Europeans who want to make comments about Americans being illiterate..
I'm starting to agree with you.

William Blake was a writer in the nineteenth century. Ambrose Bierce was
also a writer, and the author of "The Devil's Dictionary."

(NOTE: I'm quite certain they don't mean this "Ambrose" to be the same
person.. Bierce would be at least as witty as Harlequin, and more cynical.)



> Okey... 'nother question... What is "IT"? My bet would be on some sort
> of AI, but it seems to be on a higher level than normal AI. It is obviously
> behind the Otaku, but what kind of an entity is it?

It's in the context. I believe they're talking about the technology
curve. What is technology itself doing to the children, and what does
the technology want? It's highly symbolic, but then, with Paul Hume's
background...



> And one more. What relation do you suppose there is between AI, otaku, and
> UV hosts? There looks like there is some, but don't know what...

They're all powerful, semi-mystical, campaign-level concepts that ordinary
deckers almost never get to see. How's that? >8->


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| OS/2 WARP:
My opinions are my opinions. | Virtual machines. Virtual memory.
Please don't blame anyone else. | Virtual documentation.
Message no. 5
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:13:09 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
>> Hmmm... Could be... There is a couple of clues to Ambrose's identity,
>> like they speak of someone named Will Blake, I don't know if he shows
>> up anywhere else, but it looks to me like it was left there purposely...
>*sigh*
>Any Europeans who want to make comments about Americans being illiterate..
>I'm starting to agree with you.

Maybe it's just me or maybe you forgot a smiley, but I consider that quite
rude. Maybe I don't know who William Blake is, but that is really rude.

>William Blake was a writer in the nineteenth century. Ambrose Bierce was
>also a writer, and the author of "The Devil's Dictionary."

Hmmm... I have not read those books.

>> Okey... 'nother question... What is "IT"? My bet would be on some
sort
>> of AI, but it seems to be on a higher level than normal AI. It is obviously
>> behind the Otaku, but what kind of an entity is it?
>It's in the context. I believe they're talking about the technology
>curve. What is technology itself doing to the children, and what does
>the technology want? It's highly symbolic, but then, with Paul Hume's
>background...

Good observation. It looks at first glance like IT is a being, but you
are probably right, there are subtle things which denote that it's not.

I also do not know what Paul Hume's background is, I've only been reading
shadowrun books for about three or four months now, and that, compiled
with a limited budget has kept me from doing as much reading as I would
like...

>>>>>>>>> Nate
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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Message no. 6
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:16:07 +0000 (GMT)
>
> Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
> MIME: We shoot them here.
>
> From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
> >> Hmmm... Could be... There is a couple of clues to Ambrose's identity,
> >> like they speak of someone named Will Blake, I don't know if he shows
> >> up anywhere else, but it looks to me like it was left there purposely...
> >*sigh*
> >Any Europeans who want to make comments about Americans being illiterate..
> >I'm starting to agree with you.
>
> Maybe it's just me or maybe you forgot a smiley, but I consider that quite
> rude. Maybe I don't know who William Blake is, but that is really rude.
>
I think I agree. I admit, sometimes I slag off the Americans but the William
Blake reference went right over my head too.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:29:02 -0500 (EST)
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Nathan Walker wrote:

> Good observation. It looks at first glance like IT is a being, but you
> are probably right, there are subtle things which denote that it's not.

Just a suggestion for all you non-computer types out there.

IT; (acronym) Information Technology

This definintion makes the references a sort of double entendre,
so to speak. With this single pronoun, they are referring to the Matrix as
both information technology (which is what it is), and as a cohesive,
semi-aware entity with specific goals (which it just might be).

Marc
Message no. 8
From: "Cugel" <cugel@**.net>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:12:33 +01.0
On 2 Dec 95 at 14:02, S.F. Eley wrote:

> *sigh*
> Any Europeans who want to make comments about Americans being
> illiterate.. I'm starting to agree with you.
> William Blake was a writer in the nineteenth century. Ambrose
> Bierce was also a writer, and the author of "The Devil's
> Dictionary."

Before all Americans feel illiterate, I only became interested in
William Blake the writer/poet when a version of the Infinity virus
crashed my old computer and displaying this opening stanza of
Auguries of Innocence :) :

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

It took me quite a while to find the autor, as the virus didn't
name him (as expected of course :)

[end literature lesson]

> (NOTE: I'm quite certain they don't mean this "Ambrose" to be the
> same person.. Bierce would be at least as witty as Harlequin, and
> more cynical.)

Ambrosia is also the food of the gods, maybe Ambrose was/is a
quaestor of wossname... Floriaanus? Or some Ambrose from the fifth
world who became for a certain reason immortal. There is for instance
a Ambrosius who was bisshop of Milan who lived in the 4th century AD.
He is considered on of the four church-fathers (which would explain
H's use of the word "pops" plus A's reaction to H's remark about
X-mass...
Well just an idea, I agree it's pretty far of the "normal" stuff FASA
throws at us, but why not? :)

> > And one more. What relation do you suppose there is between AI,
> > otaku, and UV hosts? There looks like there is some, but don't
> > know what...
>
> They're all powerful, semi-mystical, campaign-level concepts that
> ordinary deckers almost never get to see. How's that? >8->

And perhaps the first and the third were constructed by the second
(or with the help of)? I would expect these Otaku to add a few
new twists to the matrix.

Greetings,

Martin Steffens (Cugel@**.net)
The class was learning about some revolt in which some peasants had wanted
to stop being peasants and, since the nobles had won, had stopped being
peasants *really quickly*. -- (Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
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Message no. 9
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:58:31 +0100
Nathan Walker said on 2 Dec 95...

> >I still think it means Ambrose is very old too, but still a lot younger
> >than Harlequin. A spike baby, or something.
>
> Hmmm... Could be... There is a couple of clues to Ambrose's identity,
> like they speak of someone named Will Blake, I don't know if he shows
> up anywhere else, but it looks to me like it was left there purposely...

The only Blake I can think of at the moment is from BattleTech, so I think
we can rule that one out right now :) I keep having this feelin that I;ve
heard the name Ambrose before in relation to Shadowrun, but I can't
remember where. I looked through the Renny story in VR1 just in case, but
he doesn't appear to be in there (only Lucifer an Brutus, plus dr.
Halberstam [or something close to that] are in there). BTW, did anyone
else notice that Renny makes an appearance in VR2 as well?

> Okey... 'nother question... What is "IT"? My bet would be on some sort
> of AI, but it seems to be on a higher level than normal AI. It is obviously
> behind the Otaku, but what kind of an entity is it?

IT's a club in Amsterdam :)

Although in the context of SR I don't think that's what we're looking for
:) IT could refer to Horrors, maybe? That's about the only thing I can
think of at the moment -- an AI doesn't seem plausible to me, for some
reason.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
But you'll have what you wanted in the end along the way
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:48:24 GMT
Generally I think that Ambrose is the woman from the worlds without
end book but that's just my opinion
Message no. 11
From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:13:59 +0100 (GMT+0100)
> IT's a club in Amsterdam :)
>
> Although in the context of SR I don't think that's what we're looking for
> :) IT could refer to Horrors, maybe? That's about the only thing I can

Don't you think some of the types going to IT look like horrors??? :-)

Just kidding.

VrGr

David

*************************************************************************************
This is not a signature, I type it every mail again.

David "42" van Nederveen Meerkerk
Warande 128
3705 ZK Zeist
Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 6951487
D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~nederv1
Message no. 12
From: David van Nederveen Meerkerk <D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:17:19 +0100 (GMT+0100)
I haven't read VR 2.0 yet so i have no idea about the actual quotes.
But if we're looking for a MALE kid which might be special in some way
and knows something about technology (this is what I deduce from your posts),
maybe this is the long-awaited link to our friend Mr. Knight (not Micheal :-)
Or should it still be a kid? I think not as some people thought about jane
foster, who is also already an adult.
And don't forget that DK also knows a lot about magic: the crusade against
the bugs, his protector in the short story (forgot the name).
Just some ideas.......

VrGr

David

*************************************************************************************
This is not a signature, I type it every mail again.

David "42" van Nederveen Meerkerk
Warande 128
3705 ZK Zeist
Netherlands
tel: +31 (0)30 6951487
D.N.M.vanNederveen@***.ruu.nl
http://www.fys.ruu.nl/~nederv1
Message no. 13
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:42:07 GMT
Ok. i finally got arround to another read through the 'Laughing Man'
and 'Ambrose' chat. So to add to the guesses.

"pop's" - will leave as i can get no further, i think being American
might help with that one but.

first two part quotes from the first section, 2nd response to first.

Harlequin : 'Guy with the best armed knight to defend his land'

Ambrose : 'liberation of Eastern Europe'

On the child.
Reading the stuff if the child is Christ that implies that Ambrose is
'God'. This is rather unlikely and likely to cause the sort of
religious complications FASA seem to try and avoid. i say no.

If the Child is 'Arthur' then Ambrose is 'Merlin' ['the wizard
Merlin'='Myrdyn Emres' latter not spelt too well - thats the former
in Welsh]. I think that theres a place or person in the Authurian
legends that at least sounds like Ambrose, and this showed up in
Harlequins back [as did blood magic, though not the same rules as
Atzlan]. Noting also the above two comments where both decide to use
European examples that Ambrose = merlin seems likely. In this case
Merlin was probably an immortal elf playing about [come examples in
Worlds without and] as to who.
Not Ehran, he signs Wordsmyth or Ehran, and him and Harlequin plain
would not chat like this, try reactions to each other W.W.E. Also the
child is refered to as he and Ehrans child was a daughter 'frosty'
Brightlight, again not likely but. In Atzlan Dunklezahn revals that
'was there ever anything of substance he did not know' and Ambrose
isn't really showing that level of understanding on the matrix.
I feel inclined to say we won't get this one yet, similar problem to
'jungle cat' etc. The way they talk about the last time, you follow
your 'PASSIONS' i follow mine very stongly implies Ambrose was alive
in the 4th world, scourge, and that makes 'him' as old as Harlequin
(approx).

IT. refered to as if its alive but Harlequin says in other words that
the barrier between magic and the matrix is still up. To be alive it
really needs to be an AI or spirit, Harlequin would not miss like
that were 'IT' a corp or decker even Otaku. Ruling out magic in the
machine this leaves IT as ture AI or some sort of 'conciousness of
the matrix' ie as if the deep resonance is a matrix wide AI, ie we
don't have computers good enough for local AI's but the matrix all
together is above the threshold.

oh well. Some things shot down but there are things to explore.

Mark
Message no. 14
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:16:51 -0500 (EST)
Mark Steedman writes:

> IT. refered to as if its alive but Harlequin says in other words that
> the barrier between magic and the matrix is still up. To be alive it
> really needs to be an AI or spirit, Harlequin would not miss like
> that were 'IT' a corp or decker even Otaku. Ruling out magic in the
> machine this leaves IT as ture AI or some sort of 'conciousness of
> the matrix' ie as if the deep resonance is a matrix wide AI, ie we
> don't have computers good enough for local AI's but the matrix all
> together is above the threshold.

IT, read in context, is the technology curve. They're personifying the
advance of technology itself, speculating on the final direction and
purpose. Also notice the acronym: I.nformation T.echnology.

As for Ambrose, I'm giving up for the moment. I think there aren't enough
hints.. If it was Merlin, they would have given a more definite clue, I
suspect. Perhaps we'll find out in the next sourcebook. >8->

(Speaking of which, _Awakenings_ is due out next week, yes? Anyone know
what's in it besides Voudoun and more P.A. powers? Those are all I've
heard..)


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|Eley's Indicator of Truth:
my opinions are my opinions. |"Having more questions than you started
Please don't blame anyone else. | with is a good sign you're onto something."
Message no. 15
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:41:00 GMT
S.F. Eley writes

> IT, read in context, is the technology curve. They're personifying the
> advance of technology itself, speculating on the final direction and
> purpose. Also notice the acronym: I.nformation T.echnology.
>
i didn't miss that. In fact i have been carefully reading the
postings on this both here and on rec.games.frp.cyber . Rereading the
worings though they were at times refering to 'IT' as if it was
wanting children and 'the technology cuvre' cannot 'want' anything
because its an expression to describe something. However as with most
FASA stuff like this it is rather open to interpretation.

> As for Ambrose, I'm giving up for the moment. I think there aren't enough
> hints..
yeah.
> If it was Merlin, they would have given a more definite clue, I
> suspect. Perhaps we'll find out in the next sourcebook. >8->
>
possibly. I discussed it mostly as one of the existing guesses, and
it the only one i really failed to rule out, but its a guess with
nothing more that 'i cannot contradict it' in its favour.

> (Speaking of which, _Awakenings_ is due out next week, yes? Anyone know
> what's in it besides Voudoun and more P.A. powers? Those are all I've
> heard..)
>
Well it was due at FASA today until someone here said it had arrived
about tues, or thats what i'd heard. I am guessing it willcome out
the week after next but folks in the US might get lucky.

As to whats in it well i've seen loads of lists of rumors. More
Physad powers, Voudoun, yes, also more spells (rumoured), stuff on
totems and a whole pile of others.

>
> Blessings,
>
> _TNX._

Mark
Message no. 16
From: GKoth2258@***.com
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:21:31 -0500
Herr Steedman sagt:

>On the child.
>Reading the stuff if the child is Christ that implies that >Ambrose is
>'God'. This is rather unlikely and likely to cause the sort of
>religious complications FASA seem to try and avoid. i say no.

To defend my argument (sort of) I wasn't trying to say Ambrose was God.
However, there are a lot of similarities in that situation. Of course, if
some immortal elf was there at the birth of Christ, that kind of throws our
entire concept of Cristianity and religion in general out the window. I was
just tossing out ideas that have a possibility, not necessarily a
probability.

Now onto your Merdyn/Merlin and Arthur argument. I have to find that
unlikely also. Arthur did find out about his parentage. And Merdyn didn't
play an active role in his life until later, after the Sword in the Stone.
Again a possibility, but I think the probability is only slightly higher
than my Christ guess.

Ambrose=Brightlight. Again, Brightlight is supposed to know almost anything
he wants. However, technology has always been the weak point of this cabal
of immortal elves. Now, it may not be a weak point like my lack of
mathematical skill, but they sure don't know as much about tech as they do
about magic. This in itself increases the probability that
Ambrose=Brightlight. I also base this suggestion on how "the Laughing Man"
reacts to the mention of Brightlight's name.

And as to IT, one small thing; maybe an AI can be considered a "spirit" of
the Matrix. Depending on how you would define AI, it might only be a super
complex sef-aware program. Or it might be mechanical sentience. Or
something else.

Ah well, since none of us really knows, all we can do is make wild-hooped
guesses. Or wild-assed guesses...

Erik
Message no. 17
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Harlequin & "Ambrose"
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:45:19 GMT
GKoth2258@***.com writes

> Herr Steedman sagt:
>
> >On the child.
> >Reading the stuff if the child is Christ that implies that >Ambrose is
> >'God'. This is rather unlikely and likely to cause the sort of
> >religious complications FASA seem to try and avoid. i say no.
>
> To defend my argument (sort of) I wasn't trying to say Ambrose was God.
i was mostly trying to 'go over the suggestions i have seen' and
therefore i did not intend folks to assume i liked or disliked a
particular guess based solely on wether i discussed it or not.
I did not intend to imply you were trying to say Ambrose was God, but
my read of the FASA text was that for the child to be Christ then
Ambrose would logically have to be 'God' [in some sense]

> However, there are a lot of similarities in that situation. Of course, if
> some immortal elf was there at the birth of Christ, that kind of throws our
> entire concept of Cristianity and religion in general out the window. I was
> just tossing out ideas that have a possibility, not necessarily a
> probability.
>
accepted. This thread seems to be suffering from lack of
understanding of intent of comments in several directions, which is
not helping very much :(, but we'll manage.

> Now onto your Merdyn/Merlin and Arthur argument. I have to find that
> unlikely also. Arthur did find out about his parentage. And Merdyn didn't
> play an active role in his life until later, after the Sword in the Stone.
> Again a possibility, but I think the probability is only slightly higher
> than my Christ guess.
>
No i'm not particularly thrilled with this one, but of the options
suggetsed it is fairly difficult to find reason to say 'not possible'
though we are far too short of confimation to say 'yes he is'.

> Ambrose=Brightlight. Again, Brightlight is supposed to know almost anything
> he wants. However, technology has always been the weak point of this cabal
> of immortal elves.
yes. Though some do seem to be paying attention to where its going
they don't weem to be really good at it themselves.

> Now, it may not be a weak point like my lack of
> mathematical skill, but they sure don't know as much about tech as they do
> about magic. This in itself increases the probability that
> Ambrose=Brightlight.
but not much
> I also base this suggestion on how "the Laughing Man"
> reacts to the mention of Brightlight's name.
>
that however warants a check up! wether it will help though ??

> And as to IT, one small thing; maybe an AI can be considered a "spirit" of
> the Matrix. Depending on how you would define AI, it might only be a super
> complex sef-aware program. Or it might be mechanical sentience. Or
> something else.
>
Possible, all terminology, at which point English becomes rather
imprecise all too often. Take the two types of Otaku offered, or even
the differences between FASA's mages and Shamen, yet they use the
same game rules.

> Ah well, since none of us really knows, all we can do is make wild-hooped
> guesses. Or wild-assed guesses...
>
yes, Ambrose may well prove as impossible to pin down as Jungle cat
and two friends.
> Erik
>
Mark

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Harlequin & "Ambrose", you may also be interested in:

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