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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:57:04 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 08:09 PM 9/9/98 -0700, Mongoose wrote:
> That's the WIERDEST munchkin problem I've ever heard of- how did
he
>abuse HEADWARE MEMORY??? (Skillsofts out the wazoo, I presume- but
its
>still WIERTD).

Oddly enough, I'm reminded of that post from a few days back where
someone calculated that a single Mp of Delta Grade Headware Memory,
with a great implantation essence reduction roll, costs .0013 essence.

> BTW, WHY does more HwM take more essence? A bigger drive doesn't
take
>more space in my computer...

And, according to various cannon sources, a 10 Mp Optical Memory Chip
has the same footprint as a 1000 Mp Optical Memory Chip: 1cm X 2cm X
3cm.

> The only answer I can see is that each an every pulse is linked
to the
>mind / brain in an intimate manner.

If you view essence loss as resulting from gaining abilities that
exceed the template set down by one's aura, then the abilty to
perfectly store and retrieve 300 Mp of infomration (remember, a single
megapulse is a _lot_ of information) certainly does fall outside the
scope of the usual metahuman. 150 Mp also falls outside of the scope,
but it only falls half as far.

Howerver, I still prefer Aaron Wigley's Headware Memory houserule,
that gives a flat essence cost up to the maximum Mp size of an optical
memory chip. I'd give you the URL, but the Archive is still down.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 2
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:37:35 -0400
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At 03:47 PM 9/10/98 -0400, Bandit wrote:
>Considering that Headware memory still costs the same essence as it
did in
>SR2, I doubt we will see a revision. (One could hope)

Actually, SR3 Headware Memory costs what it costed in Shadowtech.
SR1/SR2 Headware Memory costs three times as much.

>Besides, does anyone know exatctly what the size of a MP is?

Big enough to allow for suspension of disbelief. Any current day size
estimate of the megapulse will become laughably outdated in as little
as 5 years. There's an example that usually comes up, and I'm probably
getting the details wrong, but here goes.

Back in the early 80s, there was a RPG set in outer space. The game
designers put actual kilobyte sizes on the storage capacity of the
starship computers. Some unbelievably high number like 500 kilobytes,
because after all, who would ever need that much memory?

I've had .sig files that wouldn't fit in 500 kilobytes.

I direct everyone to the "What is a Pulse?" section of the webpage
found at:
http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/megapulses.html

This is the best answer I've ever seen given for the size of a
Megapulse. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 3
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:31:48 +1000
Paul Gettle writes:
> Back in the early 80s, there was a RPG set in outer space. The game
> designers put actual kilobyte sizes on the storage capacity of the
> starship computers. Some unbelievably high number like 500 kilobytes,
> because after all, who would ever need that much memory?

*ahem* it was the early _70's_, the game was "Traveller", and computer core
memory, at the time, was shooting for about a million $US per kilobyte.
There was no sign of memory prices coming down (and they didn't much,
either, until PCs generated demand for it). In Traveller, the big technical
breakthrough wasn't lowering costs, but actually being able to fit 500
kilobytes in a space smaller than a briefcase.

<old timer rant>
Kids today... they have no appreciation for what's around them anymore.
</old timer rant>

In the Apollo moon missions, the memory for the computers (a whopping 64KB)
was far and away the most expensive single part of the electronics.

And Paul, if you've got a .sig file that's over 500000 characters, please
don't post it to the list.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 4
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:48:42 -0400
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At 01:31 PM 9/11/98 +1000, Robert wrote:
<<Snip Robert pointing out what's I openly admited would be
innaccurate>>

><old timer rant>
>Kids today... they have no appreciation for what's around them
anymore.
></old timer rant>

Oh, but I do apreciate it. The machine I'm running on right now has
more RAM than there was storage space on my first external hard drive
from 10 years ago.

>And Paul, if you've got a .sig file that's over 500000 characters,
please
>don't post it to the list.

Of course not. That's what alt.fan.warlord is for.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:02:41 -0500
>> Back in the early 80s, there was a RPG set in outer space. The game
>> designers put actual kilobyte sizes on the storage capacity of the
>> starship computers. Some unbelievably high number like 500 kilobytes,
>> because after all, who would ever need that much memory?
>
>*ahem* it was the early _70's_, the game was "Traveller", and
>computer core memory, at the time, was shooting for about a million
>$US per kilobyte.

It couldn't have been any earlier in the 70s than 1977, which, according to
the copyright date in my dusty-but-still-intact Book 1 (Characters and
Combat) is when the game came out. The incident in question did, in fact,
occur around 1979 when the original version of Book 5 (High Guard) was
originally released (if my equally-dusty-but-still-mostly-intact memory is
even remotely correct). The second printing of High Guard doesn't make the
same mistake, as I recall.

But calling that the early 70s is stretching things a little bit. <g>

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:01:30 +1000
Paul Gettle writes:
> At 01:31 PM 9/11/98 +1000, Robert wrote:
> <<Snip Robert pointing out what's I openly admited would be
> innaccurate>>

<snip Paul's comeback>

I was just trying to put it into context, Paul. Saying that Traveller
thought 500 kilobytes would be enough in the early 80s is very different to
saying that it would be enough in the early 70s.

After all, everyone knows that 500 KB wasn't enough in the early 80s. Enough
was 640KB. ;)

(Oh, and Paul... I can't get alt.fan.warlord at work... want to post me the
sig (privately, of course)?)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:15:48 +1000
> It couldn't have been any earlier in the 70s than 1977, which,
> according to
> the copyright date in my dusty-but-still-intact Book 1 (Characters and
> Combat) is when the game came out. The incident in question did, in fact,
> occur around 1979 when the original version of Book 5 (High Guard) was
> originally released (if my equally-dusty-but-still-mostly-intact memory is
> even remotely correct). The second printing of High Guard
> doesn't make the
> same mistake, as I recall.

Traveller was mostly designed in the early 70's, IIRC... mind you, my
knowledge is second hand. At the time your books were printed, I wasn't in
primary school. :) Seriously, though, I've got a friend who was in wargames
and such at the time, and he has a complete set of first-ed Traveller (all
first printings), along with the magazine articles in which the prototype of
the game was previewed.

My knowledge on the subject largely comes from several discussions I
remember from him, where he defended Traveller viciously (though he was
quite prone to attack MegaTraveller as being watered down and silly).

--
************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robert.watkins@******.com *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
************************************************************************
Message no. 8
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:29:24 -0500
>Traveller was mostly designed in the early 70's, IIRC... mind you, my
>knowledge is second hand. At the time your books were printed, I wasn't in
>primary school. :)

I was 11 when Traveller hit the streets. Marc Miller was working on it
earlier, of course, but the game itself hit the public in '77. I was still
5 years or so from actually playing it (I never got to see any of those
famous gaffes).

>Seriously, though, I've got a friend who was in wargames
>and such at the time, and he has a complete set of first-ed Traveller
>(all first printings), along with the magazine articles in which the
>prototype of the game was previewed.

I was involved back in that same time-frame, but I was only 8 when I started
playing Chainmail; that was in '74. Jesus, I feel old all of a sudden....

>My knowledge on the subject largely comes from several discussions
>I remember from him, where he defended Traveller viciously (though
>he was quite prone to attack MegaTraveller as being watered down
>and silly).

And he was right. Now that GDW is gone and Marc Miller has the game back,
he appears to be trying to correct some of those mistakes.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 9
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:04:06 -0500
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:57:04 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>At 08:09 PM 9/9/98 -0700, Mongoose wrote:
>> That's the WIERDEST munchkin problem I've ever heard of- how did he
>>abuse HEADWARE MEMORY??? (Skillsofts out the wazoo, I presume- but
its
>>still WIERTD).

>Oddly enough, I'm reminded of that post from a few days back where
>someone calculated that a single Mp of Delta Grade Headware Memory,
>with a great implantation essence reduction roll, costs .0013 essence.

<SNIP>
> -- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP>

Hey!! I just did that because someone asked if .1 was the smalles
possible imcrement of Essence loss.... Not because of some munchy
character number crunching (or in the above scenario, some munchy
character number MIScrunching.)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:26:35 +0100
And verily, did Robert Watkins hastily scribble thusly...
|After all, everyone knows that 500 KB wasn't enough in the early 80s. Enough
|was 640KB. ;)

?????
Enough in the Early eighties was 16K, and then 48 or 64K. Later still, 128K.

Only when the Amiga and ST (and QL) game out did people think in terms of
500 - 640K. (And that was mid to late eighties).

The eighties.... The period when memory usage went from 1K to 1M and beyond.
In't it amazin' 'ow quick things go sometimes?
EEEEE, when I were a lad, you were 'appy to 'ave a 1K ZX81, and ecstatic when
you got t' 16K RAM PACK...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 11
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:14:10 -0400
Spike wrote:
>
> The eighties.... The period when memory usage went from 1K to 1M and beyond.
> In't it amazin' 'ow quick things go sometimes?
> EEEEE, when I were a lad, you were 'appy to 'ave a 1K ZX81, and ecstatic when
> you got t' 16K RAM PACK...

Hey, I thought the ZX81's had 2K? It was the ZX80 that was a 1K memory
machine.. I had both (well, my ZX81 was really the Americanized
Timex/Sinclair 1000) and yes, I *was* ecstatic when I got the 16K pack. I
had absolutely no idea what I was going to do with all that memory --
except for playing Pac Rabbit, of course. >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 12
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:15:39 +0100
And verily, did Steve Eley hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> The eighties.... The period when memory usage went from 1K to 1M and beyond.
|> In't it amazin' 'ow quick things go sometimes?
|> EEEEE, when I were a lad, you were 'appy to 'ave a 1K ZX81, and ecstatic when
|> you got t' 16K RAM PACK...
|
|Hey, I thought the ZX81's had 2K? It was the ZX80 that was a 1K memory
|machine.. I had both (well, my ZX81 was really the Americanized
|Timex/Sinclair 1000) and yes,

The Timex/Sinclair had 2K. The ZX81 had 1K.

|I *was* ecstatic when I got the 16K pack. I
|had absolutely no idea what I was going to do with all that memory --
|except for playing Pac Rabbit, of course. >8->

I know exactly what you mean...
A 128K speccy? They'll NEVER fill that!
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 13
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:11:27 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:26 PM 9/11/98 +0100, Spike wrote:
>And verily, did Robert Watkins hastily scribble thusly...
>|After all, everyone knows that 500 KB wasn't enough in the early
80s. Enough
>|was 640KB. ;)
>
>?????
>Enough in the Early eighties was 16K, and then 48 or 64K. Later
still, 128K.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Headware Memory and Essence [was: Dumb ways to munch?]
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:13:59 +0100
And verily, did Paul Gettle hastily scribble thusly...
|>Enough in the Early eighties was 16K, and then 48 or 64K. Later
|still, 128K.
|
|"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

See? Even then he was a Bloatware fanatic....
:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

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