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Message no. 1
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:50:10 +1100
Just wondering what you think of this...
Its a homemade gun that a certain GM... not mentioning any names eh scam,
has made for one of his players (Not me). Granted this guy got killed in
one attack by a Rigger... but is this going too far for one weapon or what?

Karl's Big Fragging Gun v0.1
----------------------------

Supermachine gun class weapon

Type Conc Ammunition Mode Damage Weight Avail Cost SI
BFGv0.1 1 50(c) SA/BF/FA 7M 10 ---- a lot hah
GrenLnchr 8(m) SS as grenade
Rocket 2(m) SS 3D

Type Assualt Rifle

Load 7.62mm caseless
50(c)

Damage 7M

Mode SA/BF/FA
01/06/15

Stock rigid shoulder stock w/shock pad (1 point recoil)

Barrel Improved Recoil Compensation system IV (4 points recoil)

Top-barrel
Hi-power laser sight

Underbarrel
Integral Grenade launcher, 8 shot magazine

Sidebarrel
Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel



Crucible

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|email: |
| crucible@******.mur.csu.edu.au (Use this one first)|
| crucible@******.net |
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Message no. 2
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 03:09:22 PST
>Type Conc Ammunition Mode Damage Weight Avail Cost SI
>BFGv0.1 1 50(c) SA/BF/FA 7M 10 ---- a lot hah
^^^^

Shouldn't that be "Hahahaha!"?

>Rocket 2(m) SS 3D

What, exactly, is this useful for? _3_D? "Well, he rolls his DRT, and
Wow, 14 successes!"

Yes, it's going to far. The rockets aren't that useful, really.
Message no. 3
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 04:35:44 -0500
At 04:50 PM 11/1/96 +1100, you wrote:
>Just wondering what you think of this...
>Its a homemade gun that a certain GM... not mentioning any names eh scam,
>has made for one of his players (Not me). Granted this guy got killed in
>one attack by a Rigger... but is this going too far for one weapon or what?
>
>Karl's Big Fragging Gun v0.1
>----------------------------
>
>Supermachine gun class weapon
>
>Type Conc Ammunition Mode Damage Weight Avail Cost SI
>BFGv0.1 1 50(c) SA/BF/FA 7M 10 ---- a lot hah
>GrenLnchr 8(m) SS as grenade
>Rocket 2(m) SS 3D
>
>Type Assualt Rifle
>
>Load 7.62mm caseless
> 50(c)
>
>Damage 7M
>
>Mode SA/BF/FA
> 01/06/15
>
>Stock rigid shoulder stock w/shock pad (1 point recoil)
>
>Barrel Improved Recoil Compensation system IV (4 points recoil)
>
>Top-barrel
> Hi-power laser sight
>
>Underbarrel
> Integral Grenade launcher, 8 shot magazine
>
>Sidebarrel
> Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel
>
This is the kind of gun you should give your players to field-test,
then have it malfunction at a critical moment. Can you say, "Ka-boom!"? I
knew you could. <smirk>

Peace and Long Life,

Scott
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:19:52 +0100
The Crucible said on 16:50/ 1 Nov 96...

> Type Conc Ammunition Mode Damage Weight Avail Cost SI
> BFGv0.1 1 50(c) SA/BF/FA 7M 10 ---- a lot hah
> GrenLnchr 8(m) SS as grenade
> Rocket 2(m) SS 3D


> Type Assualt Rifle
>
> Load 7.62mm caseless
> 50(c)
>
> Damage 7M

That's SMG ammo, is it?

[other stats snipped]
> Sidebarrel
> Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel

Well... I suppose these are the 7.62 cm rockets from the RBB? Those are
FFARs, you know (Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets), like the 70 mm Hydra rockets
used on ground attack aircraft and helicopters today. The RBB says the
7.62 cm rockets cost .1 CF per rocket, which is 2.5 kg; a 70 mm Hydra
rocket weighs something like 8 kg to 12 kg per rocket, depending on the
warhead fitted, and they're about 110 cm long.
These are not something you'd fit to a hand-held gun, especially not if
you've ever seen what comes out of the exhaust when one is fired...

Apart from that little thing, the weapon looks okay to me. Not more over
the top than some weapons from FOF, anyway :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zes geiten onder tafel.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 5
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:34:54 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-01 00:38:57 EST, you write:

>Just wondering what you think of this...
>Its a homemade gun that a certain GM... not mentioning any names eh scam,
>has made for one of his players (Not me). Granted this guy got killed in
>one attack by a Rigger... but is this going too far for one weapon or what?
>
>Karl's Big Fragging Gun v0.1
>----------------------------
>
>Supermachine gun class weapon
>
>Type Conc Ammunition Mode Damage Weight Avail Cost SI
>BFGv0.1 1 50(c) SA/BF/FA 7M 10 ---- a lot hah
>GrenLnchr 8(m) SS as grenade
>Rocket 2(m) SS 3D
He gave it a concealability of 1?!?!?!!!? Negative 6 might be closer...
>Type Assualt Rifle
>
>Load 7.62mm caseless
> 50(c)
>
>Damage 7M
>
>Mode SA/BF/FA
> 01/06/15
>
>Stock rigid shoulder stock w/shock pad (1 point recoil)
>
>Barrel Improved Recoil Compensation system IV (4 points recoil)
He'll certainly need that...
>Top-barrel
> Hi-power laser sight
>
>Underbarrel
> Integral Grenade launcher, 8 shot magazine
>
>Sidebarrel
> Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel
Has he bothered to think aobut how big this weapon is? I suppose I could see
allowing it as a vehicle weapon, but it certainly isn't a man-portable weapon
(not even a troll-portable weapon:). I'd require a tripod for use apart from
a vehicle.
I dunno, but this thing looks like it could dangerous for the user, as well
as the target...

>Crucible

I think I pity you...did this come up in some sort of
anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better arguments?

John Pederson
canthros@***.com
Message no. 6
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:42:36 +1100
>
> I think I pity you...did this come up in some sort of
> anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better arguments?

Actually no.. the guy who wanted it drew it after being blown apart by a
rigger.... then for his next character he wanted something that was
fuckin big... I think it suffices... but he will need a ruddy big troll
for it ;) (btw the missiles from memory (I didnt make it) are from RBB
and they are the 12.7cm rockets...)

Crucible

/----------------------------------------------------------------\
|email: |
| crucible@******.mur.csu.edu.au (Use this one first)|
| crucible@******.net |
| 94043950@********.mur.csu.edu.au (Student account) |
|homepage: http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~crucible/ |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
Message no. 7
From: Scam <scam@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:26:14 +1100
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Gurth wrote:
[snip munchkin gun stats]
> > Sidebarrel
> > Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel
>
> Well... I suppose these are the 7.62 cm rockets from the RBB? Those are

Yup. Actually I don't have my own copy of the RBB, so I had to grab the
stats from the back of the SRII mainbook.

> FFARs, you know (Folding-Fin Aerial Rockets), like the 70 mm Hydra rockets
> used on ground attack aircraft and helicopters today. The RBB says the
> 7.62 cm rockets cost .1 CF per rocket, which is 2.5 kg; a 70 mm Hydra
> rocket weighs something like 8 kg to 12 kg per rocket, depending on the
> warhead fitted, and they're about 110 cm long.
> These are not something you'd fit to a hand-held gun, especially not if
> you've ever seen what comes out of the exhaust when one is fired...

Point noted. I hadn't actually thought about the _length_ of the things,
I just looked for the smallest rocket I could find and there it was ....
and I could be wrong but I recall in the description for the Generic
Rocket/Missile Launcher in the mainbook it says that exhaust has been
eliminated so I figured that the gunsmith might have been able to figure
something like that, in the least plates to reflect the exhaust away from
the firer. His friends standing next to him could have problems though ..
hehee

> Apart from that little thing, the weapon looks okay to me. Not more over
> the top than some weapons from FOF, anyway :)

Great Grudnuk!! A compliment from the Mighty Gurth! I think I just wet
myself <:o

If anyone's still reading this thread ... the idea for this monstrosity
came about, like Crucible said, after one of our friends got blown into
tiny bite-sized chunks by a rigger controlled drone with two LMGs ... my
fault, the rigger was hiding in part of the building which my character was
supposed to check, but i digress ... so sitting in a lecture and he's doodling
away then he turns to me and says "next time we play THIS is the gun I
want", so I thought "fair enuff might increase your survival time" and went
away and drew up some stats for it.

Thanx for the feedback guys. I'll make some revisions and then Crucible
can embarrass me again, eh Tobin? >;)

Scam Na'Fien, Shadowrun Guru Wannabe

*******************************************************************
VAMPIRE: I am of the Kindred. I am child of both Night and Pain....
MAGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're a soap bubble.
VAMPIRE: Pop!
*******************************************************************
* scam@**********.mur.csu.edu.au *
* http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~scam *
*******************************************************************
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:50:42 +0100
Scam said on 16:26/ 2 Nov 96...

> > These are not something you'd fit to a hand-held gun, especially not if
> > you've ever seen what comes out of the exhaust when one is fired...
>
> Point noted. I hadn't actually thought about the _length_ of the things,
> I just looked for the smallest rocket I could find and there it was ....

Understandable. Note that these rockets (IMO anyway, it's not specifically
said in SR books I believe) cannot be fired from normal missile launchers,
only fron the launch rails for aircraft and other vehicles.

> and I could be wrong but I recall in the description for the Generic
> Rocket/Missile Launcher in the mainbook it says that exhaust has been
> eliminated

That's most likely because they didn't want to think up rules for the
backblast of a rocket being fired. If you want to shoot a rocket, you're
going to have a backblast, plain and simple. You can contain it by
shooting a load of plastic flakes out of the back of the launcher, but
this takes up mass and space that you can use for better things in
vehicle-launched rockets.

> Scam Na'Fien, Shadowrun Guru Wannabe

And White Wolf Reader :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Maybe we've known each other too well, for too long.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:36:04 -0500
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, The Crucible wrote:

[SNIP description of BFGv0.1]

> Sidebarrel
> Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel

Um, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but those kinds
of rockets have significant blast-back effects when leaving the
launcher. Generally, the tubes have open backs, so the blast is vented
out as the rocket accelerates. It is precisely for this reason that
most man-portable rockets and missiles are shoulder-launched, i.e., the
blast is not directed *at* your body. If said blast is directed along
the side of your gun, you're screwed. If you want to see the effects
of this kind of blast-venting, look at the rules for the Arbelast, et.
al. in Fields of Fire. Just a thought...

Marc
Message no. 10
From: Isaac Howard <howa9545@**.UIDAHO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:57:07 -0800
> > Sidebarrel
> > Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel
>
> Um, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but those kinds
> of rockets have significant blast-back effects when leaving the
> launcher. Generally, the tubes have open backs, so the blast is vented
> out as the rocket accelerates. It is precisely for this reason that
> most man-portable rockets and missiles are shoulder-launched, i.e., the
> blast is not directed *at* your body. If said blast is directed along
> the side of your gun, you're screwed. If you want to see the effects
> of this kind of blast-venting, look at the rules for the Arbelast, et.
> al. in Fields of Fire. Just a thought...
>
> Marc
>


Just a thought couldn't you use like a 90 degree pipe to redirect the
blast to the side? this would of course make the gun flip off to one side.
Try a single rocket on top with a T-vent in the back to direct the blast
to the left and right equally....

Isderf


//////////////////// Isderf International \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

howa9545@**.uidaho.edu

http://howa9545@**.uidaho.edu

"RTFM" "Fraggin Drek"

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Message no. 11
From: Scam <scam@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Heheh Munchkin Gun
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:06:27 +1100
On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Isaac Howard wrote:

> > > Sidebarrel
> > > Single 7.62cm Rocket pod, one each side of barrel

> Just a thought couldn't you use like a 90 degree pipe to redirect the
> blast to the side?
That's what I had in mind, and is in the second revision atm
(THE MUNCHKIN GUN LIVES!!)

>this would of course make the gun flip off to one side.
Depending on how fast the rocket accelerates out of the pod is this a
problem? And the gun is probably going to be used by an Ork or Troll so
they would most probably not be at all phased by a wussy bit of side
vented recoil ;) neither would a muscled up samurai either I suppose

> Try a single rocket on top with a T-vent in the back to direct the blast
> to the left and right equally....
Oooooh, hadn't thought of that ... so even if the blast pushed the gun
down it would most probably still be on target .... unfortunately the
next version was _going_ to have two rockets on each side since I figured
3D ain't really much punch considering the recoil.
12D on the other hand: major SPLAT, except for a Troll in milspec armour
(this really _is_ turning into a munchkin gun)

Scam-the-munchkin-who-despises-munchkins-wannabe-everything

*******************************************************************
VAMPIRE: I am of the Kindred. I am child of both Night and Pain....
MAGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're a soap bubble.
VAMPIRE: Pop!
*******************************************************************

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