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Message no. 1
From: Jod <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:00:32 +0200
Hello all,

Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)

However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some of
you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say so,
'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.


-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND?? You
could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct?? 'though I
guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).
BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
important for fireweapons.

-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
When will they need it?

-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I can get
some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
will be playing for the first time??


Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx in advance,

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 2
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 16:13:47 EDT
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:00:32 +0200 Jod <chatin@*******.NL> writes:
<<Hello all,>>


Hoi! Welcome to ShadowRN, the Bull-bot shall greet you shortly:) I hope
you like lots of mail.


<<Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this
list. I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought
the Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help...
:)>>


It should be. It's been helpful to me, anyway. You might also want to
check out Shadowland <http://www.shadowland.org>; by Dave Hyatt. It may
not be as helpful, but it is interesting:)


<<However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some
of you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say
so, 'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.>>


<G> I've had my copy of the manual for this game for about three months
now, and started playing about two or three years before that (albeit
infrequently, maybe a total of 12 or 15 games). I still haven't sat down
and read it all the way through, though I'm sure I've looked at pretty
much every page in the book by this time at least once.


<<-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND??
You could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??
'though I guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).>>


That would be correct. There's another reason not to bother with
mage/deckers: mages are karmic black holes, while deckers are bottomless
pits for nuyen (or can be, anyway). Now, a decker/rigger...


<<BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special
sourcebook???>>


Nope, all the info you really need to play a game of Shadowrun (with the
possible exception of a starting adventure:( is contained within the SR2
main book. However, the decking rules (the chapter entitled "The Matrix")
and the rigging rules ("Vehicle Combat") have been/are due to be
re-vamped. You may want to buy VR2 (SR second-edition decking sourcebook)
and RBB2 (due out next month, this is the second edition rigging book) as
they contain new rules for that. Or you may want to wait until next
August when SR3 is due out, it will contain the basic rules from each of
those books and will clean up the rest of the game (or so they keep
telling us).


<<-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
important for fireweapons.>>


Nah. Just guesstimate on the ranges, you don't need to be that exact. It
_is_ a game, after all:)


<<-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a
SIN-number?? When will they need it?>>


Whether or not a character is SINless is really dependent on his/her
background. A character wh grew up on the rough streets of the Redmond
Barrens, ran with the Halloweeners, etc stands a good chance of not
having a SIN. A character who attended a government or corporate school,
whose parents were employed, was in the military, worked for a
corporation, etc, will have a SIN unless it was specifically erased from
government and corporate databases (see the story "Plus Ca Change"). A
fake SIN doesn't cost anything in the main book, it's not listed. I think
there is some info on it in Shadowbeat or the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to
Real Life. If you don't own either book, though, don't worry about it.


<<-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??>>


While a default character is a shadowrunner, a character is not
necessarily a shadowrunner, nor do they need to be. The game's main focus
is the runners, though. The Shadowrun Companion (a fairly recent book of
optional rules and rules clarifications-type stuff) contains some ideas
for running games focusing around Lone Star, SpecOps, DocWagon HTR,
Media, etc characters. In some campaigns, a character may actually be an
undercover cop working with the runners in order to later bust them.
<shrug> It's all a matter of what you want to do.


<<-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow,
the one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own
'runs'?>>


I'd better let someone else handle this, though the adventure "A Killing
Glare" is a pretty good starting level adventure (I think, I'm not at all
sure).


<<-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I
can get some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??>>


There are a couple of PBEM GM's on the list, I'm sure they'd be willing
to help out.



<<-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and
I) will be playing for the first time??>>


Well, try and stick with the rules as written (ie, don't go about trying
to incorporate everybody's and their aunt's house rules off the net). Try
to stay simple until everybody is comfortable with the game environment.



Canthros
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 3
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:28:40 +0100
In article <199708241900.VAA13165@*******.nl>, Jod <chatin@*******.NL>
rambled on endlessly about Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
>Hello all,

Greetings.

You will probably be visited by the artificially intelligent Bull-drek
bot shortly.

>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)

Hmmm. Well, in some ways this list is _extremely_ helpful, in other
ways it's possible to ask a question and get 50 replies that have
nothing to do with it. You see, we're all slightly mad in here. :)

>However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some of
>you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say so,
>'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.

Read it all, every page, every word, several times, memorise it, that's
one answer, the other is to not bother until you need to know something.
:)

>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND??

That's right. Shadowrun does supply basic archetypes, which are a sort
of "class", but far from limited. If you have web access, and start
nosing around some of the Shadowrun sites, you'll find about 170+
different character ideas, so the archetypes are really just a guide for
starters, after that, hell, the skies the limit (literally)

>You
>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??

In theory, but it'd be darned hard. The cybernetic implants that a
decker has, in order to stay hot and runnin' in the Matrix tend to make
the inclusion of magic rather pointless and an unbelievable expense.

>'though I
>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).

Not really, cyberware tends to do nasty things to mages, like eat the
essence away point for point, ruining his spell abilities. Deckers and
Samurai make the worst mages. It's usually a good idea not to cross
archetypes with each other, as it can cause headaches, especially where
you're just starting in the game.

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

Not really. The Rigger Black Book, (is out of print now - I think) and
there is a new one due to come out very soon. So, hang on until the new
book arrives.

>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>important for fireweapons.

Not necessary. Ranges are pretty relative in Shadowrun and miniatures
don't really help in ascertaining the ranges combat takes place at, it
could be point blank, it might be a city block, or anywhere in between.
However, it is occassionally useful to use miniatures to keep track of
character position and if using other wargaming materials like buildngs
streets etc, they can help to demonstrate the different levels of cover
that are available. Miniatures are an amusing addition to the game, but
far from necessary. The only essential requirement is a good
imagination, and a good sense of logic.

>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles??

Nope.

>Or can they buy a SIN-number??

Yes, but setting up a SIN (System Identification Number) is difficult
(depending on the level of professionalism you want) and very expensive,
not really something for a starting gutter punk.

>When will they need it?

Pretty much all the time. No, not really. SINs are used to track
credit transactions, purchases, lease hire arrangements, bookings, and
payments in hotels and stuff, they are essential for travelling out of
the city, The SIN, is an everyday thing a bit like a credit card number
but very much more so. It is the identity of the owner, and tells
"central storage" (wherever that is - Hoover Building???) precisely
what the user gets up to all through their life of using it. Makes a
lovely paper trail it does. :)

>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners??

No

>Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

No.

The game is based primarily on gutter/street punks, or Shadowrunners.
People who enter the shadows to make money, and make a living (though
some here would say that they're only there to get rich famous, own
corporations and earn loads and loads of karma to turn themselves into
minor gods... Don't believe these people.) :)

Absolutely anyone can be a Shadowrunner. A corporate executive looking
for some excitement in his life, a police officer sick of the corrupt
legal system, a rock band member bored with his high flying lifestyle,
politician desperate to expose corrupt officials in his own party,
military personnel either demobbed and bored, or in-service and bored,
or looking for a way out, or ... anyway you get the idea, a
Shadowrunner can be anyone from any walk of life, for pretty much any
reason. Though it's usually a good idea to justify the presence of
someone if their background is a bit exotic.

>-How should I start my campaign??

Slowly and easily. It takes a little while to get used to the way
Shadowrun works, and believe me, it's vastly different to AD&D.

>I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

Personally for a starting GM and players I wouldn't use it. Super
Tuesday is pretty tough, and can be a strain on new starters. It might
be an idea to try a few less ambitious projects first. Super Tuesday is
rather heavily linked into part of Shadowrun's history and in that
respect, if you're not familiar with the game, it'll be a little hard to
make sense out of some of it, and use the people involved convincingly.

There are a number of other modules, but ideas from books, movies,
comics, manga, radio and tv can be used. Anyway, my advice would be to
try something easier until you get a feel for the game.

>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I can get
>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

Hang around on this list, there are a few private games going on, and
from time to time, people advertise for new players.

>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
>will be playing for the first time??

Nope. Nothing I can think of. The easiest way to learn a game is to
get into it. There are no easy hard and fast rules of do's and do nots,
just general advice. Try not to make the first few games too complex
would be the best advice I can give. The more elements of Shadowrun
that are involved, the harder it will be. So, if you have lots of
combat, magic and matrix runs, it's a damned hard job, and most of the
game will be spent referencing rule books. If you are going to involve
magic, you could do well by purchasing Awakenings, and/or Grimoire 2,
for decking, consider buying Virtual Reality 2.0, both by Shadowrun.
But in the main, experiment with the different aspects of the game
seperately, so, game mechanics first, then combat, magic, decking, but
not all together.

>Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanx in advance,

No probs. You should get a whole pile more answers as well. Everybody
here is pretty helpful in general.


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 22:48:54 -0700
Jod wrote:

> Hello all,

> Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
> I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
> Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)

It is, and it isn't. Better than rec.games.frp.cyber, though.

> However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some of
> you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say so,
> 'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.

> -Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND?? You
> could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct?? 'though I
> guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).

The only exception to "class" is race and magic - there are no ways to
become a mage if you're born a mundane, or become an Ork if you're born
a human. (There are plenty of house rules on the subject, however, and
GM whim may also play a role.)

In the First Edition of Shadowrun, also, there were rules penalizing
mages in the Matrix (a long standing argument that will hopefully
disappear in Third Edition). However, any character can, theoretically,
have any skill, gear or cyberware, yes.

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
> about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

The rules on vehicle combat *are* pretty crummy. There's a Rigger
Sourcebook being released Real Soon Now (and, if you happen to be a
completist, there is an older, less relevant one, long gone out of
print.)

> -Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
> important for fireweapons.

Miniatures are actually pretty handy for house-to-house combat (which,
you may find, is the case more often that not). Nothing's required,
though.

> -Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
> When will they need it?

This depends on GM style; a common assumption, however, is that the
characters are all "ciphers," born without SIN, as it were. The
usefulness of a SIN also ranges from campaign to campaign; I tend to
view them as combination driver's/gun/wedding/foo licenses, passports,
corporate ID, credit card, bank book, business card and library card and
house keys; in other words, anything a person might normally present a
card, key, or similar token for. (My world also tends to be a lot more
"secure" than others...)

> -Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

No, and no. There's a better RPG if you want to play pencil-pushers and
burger-flippers, however; it's called "Real Life" (tm) :) Most SR
campaigns I've seen tend to follow the "action movie" paradigm, so
characters need some sort of reason to be multiply proficient in
assorted methods of destruction.

> -How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
> one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

Do whatever you want. It's a free world out there.

Of course, once you start involving some aspects of the "official" game
world, more experienced characters will want to know what other facets
might be involved, and in which way; so it may be to your benefit to
start off with homebrewed runs while you get more of a feel for the
"official" world, and decide which parts you want to use, and which to
discard (and what your rationale will be.)

Word for the wise: the various SR sourcebooks can be pretty scattered in
terms of usability and campaign style; some are downright contradictory
in places. Whatever you do, don't let a player force you into making a
decision on some sourcebook you haven't seen yet; if you don;t own it,
it doesn't exist and/or is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

> -Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I can get
> some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

Drop me a line in private.

> -Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
> will be playing for the first time??

Just make sure everyone understands it's a test run, and rules and style
may change later on. I've seen some players get very attached to rules
(often decided in haste) which later turn out to favor them
tremendously; make sure they realize that sometimes facing a challenge
(difficult dice rolls) is better than having the world in their pocket.

> Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Tried to help as best I could. Share and enjoy.

> Thanx in advance,

> Jod
> chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 5
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:29:45 -0600
At 21:00 8/24/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)

It will either help you, or confuse you to hell.. :)

>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND?? You
>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct?? 'though I
>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :)

Right.. there's no need to say 'I'm a decker', because that decker could
also be a gun-nut and be the teams sniper, as well.
The only exceptions (As someone else pointed out.)are Race and Magical
Ability. You either have them or you don't :)

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

Rigger Black Book 2 is due out in a month or two, and should help you
greatly with this :)

>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>important for fireweapons.

That depends really.. it's easier to 'fudge' results if you don't have
mini's, but mini's can also add some nice flavour to the game.

>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
>When will they need it?

Automatically SINless, I believe. Rules for getting fake SIN's are in Neo
Anarchists Guide to Real Life and Sprawl Sites.
They'll need it to do anything 'major' legitimantly, like buying a car,
crossing a border, etc.
Of course, a character Could have a SIN, but that means he can be easily
tracked, etc..

>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

Nope, and nope.
They can be Anything. Gangers, Corporate police, Lone Star, etc. Of
course, it's best if they all 'fit' together. 3 Corporate security guards
and 2 gangers will make for a very strange campaign.

>-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

I would say don't start with a published module.
First, make up some characters, or just use the archetypes from the book,
and play some mock combat scenes. (You may have done this already.) This
will get you used to the dice systems and the flow of combat.
You can hunt around on the net and find some pre-generated modules, or
write your own. When you're just starting, my best advice is to keep it
simple. Delivering a package from one gangs headquarters to someone at a
bar, protecting one person for a night, killing a certain civilian, etc.
When they get comfortable with that, then it's time to move onto the more
involved things.

>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I can get
>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

The only people I know that run a variety of PBEM games are offline for
awhile while moving..

>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
>will be playing for the first time??

Just keep it simple. Play until you're comfortable with the system and the
world, then get more complicated.

-Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
From The Jury's Bench: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel
Message no. 6
From: Debbie Hughes <hughesd@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:42:02 -0500
BOT wrote,
yo dudes ima runner.Ima gm.I have played all archtypes
you should try it



thats the advice I give.



BOT,the sammy says
Message no. 7
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:39:43 -0500
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:42:02 -0500 Debbie Hughes <hughesd@*****.NET>
writes:
>BOT wrote,
>yo dudes ima runner.Ima gm.I have played all archtypes
>you should try it
>thats the advice I give.
>BOT,the sammy says


This message needs a little more meat to it. If you've gotten the faq,
try reading it again, if not, beg Somebody for it, and quick. Until
then, when you reply to something, quote what your replying to. No
problem, no hard feelings.

Gweedo
Message no. 8
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:21:20 -0500
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:00:32 +0200 Jod <chatin@*******.NL> writes:
>Hello all,

Wassup?

>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this
>list.
>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help...
>:)

Well, another new face. I hope getting mail is a passion of yours,
because if it isn't, it's about to be! I gotta question, are you from
France, or are you there now?

>However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some
>of
>you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say
>so,
>'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.

Well, the one golden rule is : Whilst reading thy rules of thy game,
refrain from beating thou art head into the wall.

>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND??
>You
>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??
>'though I
>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).

Correctumundo, although if you read carefully, mixing magic with
cyberware usually isn't that smart unless you skimp on both counts.

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities,
>except
>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special
>sourcebook???

You'll probably see a lot of RBB2 going around here, that means Rigger
Black Book Second edition. Most starting groups don't have to worry
about a rigger thou.

>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>important for fireweapons.

You shouldn't really have to worry about minuatures, This isn't WarHammer
40K, it's Shadowrun, where guestimation is king, and fudge is the daily
desert.

>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a
>SIN-number??
>When will they need it?

Background is what you have to worry about here, is it a fake SIN they
have, or is it good? They'll probably need it as much as you would need
your social security number, or drivers license.

>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

Most starting characters are shadowrunners, but great campaigns come
about by playing out somebody's background, going from average joe, to
Sammy the Sniper, killer extrordinare.

>-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday'
>(youknow, the
>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own
>'runs'?

Take a look at how powerful the starting characters are. If the players
made munchkin types, you might want to do your own, and pack it with some
good "invincible" NPC's.

>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I
>can get
>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

Victor Fisher just put up a posting for a PBEM, beware he's evil beyond
all imagination.

>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and
>I)
>will be playing for the first time??

Don't try to follow and nitpick every rule in the book for every
situation. Also, keep combat with flunkies short and sweet while the
major confrontation can be pretty long, slomo sequences and all.

>Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Thanx in advance,

No problem, I live to help.

Gweedo the Killer Pimp has struck again!
Message no. 9
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:31:28 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-24 15:11:24 EDT, you write:

> -Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
> will be playing for the first time??

Maybe as a suggestion, begin playing with mundanes (non-mages) and no deckers
initially until the basics of the system are understood.

LOL btw,

AirWisp
Message no. 10
From: -=/*{Chaszmyr}/*=- <d96403@***.LYNGBYES.DK>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:31:04 +0200
At 21.00 24-08-97 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)
>
>However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some of
>you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say so,
>'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.
>
>
>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND?? You
>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct?? 'though I
>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).
> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

Yup, you are right, there are no true classes in SR. There is a vague kind
of name for classes, as soon as a player has a magic rating he is a
spellcaster, and if he doesnt have one he is referred to as a mundane.
Generally,you have streetsamurais,spellcasters,deckers and riggers. But of
course you can have a magic-using decker, tho it might not be that good
idea, cause of the essence.


>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>important for fireweapons.

I dont use miniatures cause of the price of them and that it takes a little
more time to sort out combat or situations. But it gives the players a
better perspective of the whole situation there in. And its pretty tough to
make a map with miniatures if one of the runners is firing his Vindicator
at 200m or so.
I use a map with as many details as possible. Works fine that way.

>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
>When will they need it?

In my games the players can be SINless or the can have one, both doesnt
make any conflicts with the rules. But remember char's with a SIN are in
more trouble if they get busted or a piece of thier skin-tissue is found or
a drop of blood. DNA traceability is amazing in 2050. Roleplaying with a
SIN is great, the players get very imaginative when the cops are knocking
on thier door and asking questions about last night assassination of a CEO.

>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??
>
Shadowrunners is a term that describes people doing the dirty work for others.
Ive got a couple of players that have every day work like any other person
in 2050. They might work for Renraku, Fuchi or some other mega-corp. The
corp just draws on their expertise to handle some shadowy work.

>-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

Get some of the basic adventures to start with, i would recommend(if you
can get a hold of them) DNA/DOA, Maria Mecurial, Bottled Demon and Ivy &
Chrome.
They are all 1st edition books, but they give you a good oportunity to
figure out the whole SR universe.

>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I can get
>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

Cant help you there.


>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
>will be playing for the first time??

Dont kill your players, since they might get pissed. I accidently killed a
"newbie" one of the first times he played, and he lost all interest in SR.
My mistake.=(
>
>Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanx in advance,
>
>Jod
>chatin@*******.nl
>

Have fun.

Chaszmyr

Check out my homepage on:
http://www.lyngbyes.dk/users/d96403




"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
Yet with strange aeons, even Death may die."
Howard P. Lovecraft
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:20:22 +0100
Gweedo The Killer Pimp said on 23:21/24 Aug 97...

> >Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this
> >list.
[snip]
> Well, another new face. I hope getting mail is a passion of yours,
> because if it isn't, it's about to be! I gotta question, are you from
> France, or are you there now?

Didn't I tell you what .nl stands for? :)

> Correctumundo, although if you read carefully, mixing magic with
> cyberware usually isn't that smart unless you skimp on both counts.

There aren't really all that much penalties to getting magic and a bit of
cyberware, unless you get a copy of the Grimoire (the advanced magic
sourcebook for SR) which adds some extra disadvantages to losing Magic
Rating points.

> Take a look at how powerful the starting characters are. If the players
> made munchkin types, you might want to do your own, and pack it with some
> good "invincible" NPC's.

That's dangerous, because the players may get the wrong idea. Encourage
them to make interesting characters, and not combat monsters. FORCE them
to have a family and other background material -- don't stand for any "His
family was butchered by orks so I'm gonna kill 'em all and that's all
there is to it" bulldrek.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:20:21 +0100
John E Pederson said on 16:13/24 Aug 97...

> <G> I've had my copy of the manual for this game for about three months
> now, and started playing about two or three years before that (albeit
> infrequently, maybe a total of 12 or 15 games).

And still you've already been here since forever... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:20:22 +0100
Jod said on 21:00/24 Aug 97...

> Hello all,

Welkom...

> -Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND??

Absolutely true. You can be anything you want, and you don't have to stick
to the nice "street samurai," "rigger," "combat mage" etc.
that FASA has
given you. Although they are easy starting points, if you can think of a
"class" that better describes your character then go right ahead.

> You could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??
> 'though I guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).

Right in one. Although in an expansion for first-edition Shadowrun (SR1)
there was a rule that a magician who wanted to deck got a TN (target
number) modifier equal to either his/her Magic Rating or Sorcery skill
(GM's decision) to represent the bad connection between magic and matrix.
This was not included in SRII or Virtual Realities 2.0, however, so you
can disregard it if you want to.

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
> about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special sourcebook???

The Rigger Black Book is what you're after, but if I were you I'd wait a
few while with buying it, because a totally new RBB (called RBB 2) will be
out in September.

> -Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
> important for fireweapons.
^^^^^^^^^^^
(Beetje te letterlijk vertaald geloof ik :) Anyway, you don't really need
miniatures, though they can be handy at times. When it's important to know
where everyone stands, I usually draw a room on grid paper and write in
letters and numbers for the PCs and NPCs. When somebody moves, I erase the
letter or number and write it somewhere else.

> -Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
> When will they need it?

Nothing much is ever said about this, so I let players choose if they want
a SIN or not. ATM I've got two players without and one with a SIN.
Basically, having a SIN means you can easily pay at all kinds of places,
you have an ID, and basically you're part of normal society; however, you
also pay taxes: 33% of your income.
SINless characters don't pay taxes, but unfortunately they also don't
exist -- Lone Star can beat you up and there is very little you can do
against it. You can get kicked out of your house with no warning at all,
because you don't exist. Many hospitals only admit people with SINs
(unless you want to go to something like the Universal Brotherhood *evil
GM grin* or a street doc).

See SINs on page 86 of Shadowbeat if you want to know more.

(Now Gabriel, about that 100,000 nuyen...? :)

> -Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??

The idea behind the game is that the characters are shadowrunners, yes.
Over the past year or so there have been some other campaign ideas from
FASA (mainly in the SR Companion and the Underworld Sourcebook), but they
require a lot more work on the GM's part than a normal campaign.

> -How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday' (youknow, the
> one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own 'runs'?

If I were you I'd start with running a few FASA-published adventures.
Super Tuesday is a pretty good start (I played three of its adventures
with rather new players so far, and it worked out pretty well) and once
you get a bit of a feel for the system and the background you can begin
creating your own adventures.

> -Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I
> can get some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

There are enough of those around, though I don't play in any (ATM) so I
have no idea if anyone has places free.

> -Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
> will be playing for the first time??

Run an easy adventure; don't try to pull off an epic run immediately, but
take for example the first adventure from Super Tuesday (I won't say what
it's about because that might spoil it for others on the list who haven't
played it yet). It's fairly straightforward and not too hard to solve.

Other hints: make sure you know at least the basics of the rules. You'll
spend a lot of time flipping through the rules at first, but explain that
to the other players beforehand so they won't start whining about how long
all this is taking. Similarly, don't be afraid to make mistakes.

For the very first session, you might want to just set up a simple fight
between the players on one side and a gang (or whatever) on the other,
and let them know that whatever happens in that fight will have no impact
on their characters -- this is just a little exercise for the players that
is not actually happening to the characters, if you understand what I
mean. This way you and the rest can learn how the game works, without
worrying about their characters getting killed in the first firefight.

> Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Hope this helps. BTW, maybe you can answer a question for me: where
exactly do you live?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:43:01 +0100
|Hmmm. Well, in some ways this list is _extremely_ helpful, in other
|ways it's possible to ask a question and get 50 replies that have
|nothing to do with it. You see, we're all slightly mad in here. :)

Mad? <twitch> ME? <wibble> I AM NOT <blurrrbl> MAD!!!!

HA HAHA HAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHA


--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:46:43 EDT
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:20:21 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>> <G> I've had my copy of the manual for this game for about three
months
>> now, and started playing about two or three years before that (albeit
>> infrequently, maybe a total of 12 or 15 games).
>
>And still you've already been here since forever... :)


'Forever'? Hardly, I've only been here a year (or thereabouts). Right
about the same as Bull, in fact:) <shudder>FAB</shudder>


Canthros
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:51:14 +0100
-=/*{Chaszmyr}/*=- said on 10:31/25 Aug 97...

> Dont kill your players, since they might get pissed. I accidently killed a
> "newbie" one of the first times he played, and he lost all interest in SR.
> My mistake.=(

Players are unpredictable :) Some may decide they don't like the game
because their characters get killed in the first game, others may decide
a deadly game is more challenging than one they can wade through hordes of
kobolds and not suffer a scratch.

OTOH if you're talking about killing the PLAYERS, then yeah, they may not
show up next session :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If words were wisdom I'd be talking even more.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:25:31 +0100
John E Pederson said on 10:46/25 Aug 97...

> 'Forever'? Hardly, I've only been here a year (or thereabouts). Right
> about the same as Bull, in fact:) <shudder>FAB</shudder>

Funny, it seems much longer. (That's not meant in a negative way, BTW :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If words were wisdom I'd be talking even more.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 18
From: Jod <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:23:10 +0200
At 23:21 24/08/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:00:32 +0200 Jod <chatin@*******.NL> writes:
>>Hello all,
>
>Wassup?
>
>>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this
>>list.
>>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help...
>>:)
>
>Well, another new face. I hope getting mail is a passion of yours,
>because if it isn't, it's about to be! I gotta question, are you from
>France, or are you there now?
*** :). I've been on the ADND-list, and I'm used to something... however, no
I've got _two_ lists... :). Nope, I'm not from France, I live in Holland.
Youknow, the teensieweensie country in Europe :).


>>However, some things are not clear to me. So I thought that maybe some
>>of
>>you could help me out. If I need to read some section or so, just say
>>so,
>>'cause I haven't had time yet to read it intensively.
>
>Well, the one golden rule is : Whilst reading thy rules of thy game,
>refrain from beating thou art head into the wall.
**:)**


>>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND??
>>You
>>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??
>>'though I
>>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).
>
>Correctumundo, although if you read carefully, mixing magic with
>cyberware usually isn't that smart unless you skimp on both counts.
>
>> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities,
>>except
>>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special
>>sourcebook???
>
>You'll probably see a lot of RBB2 going around here, that means Rigger
>Black Book Second edition. Most starting groups don't have to worry
>about a rigger thou.
>
>>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>>important for fireweapons.
>
>You shouldn't really have to worry about minuatures, This isn't WarHammer
>40K, it's Shadowrun, where guestimation is king, and fudge is the daily
>desert.
>
>>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a
>>SIN-number??
>>When will they need it?
>
>Background is what you have to worry about here, is it a fake SIN they
>have, or is it good? They'll probably need it as much as you would need
>your social security number, or drivers license.
>
>>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??
>
>Most starting characters are shadowrunners, but great campaigns come
>about by playing out somebody's background, going from average joe, to
>Sammy the Sniper, killer extrordinare.
>
>>-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday'
>>(youknow, the
>>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own
>>'runs'?
>
>Take a look at how powerful the starting characters are. If the players
>made munchkin types, you might want to do your own, and pack it with some
>good "invincible" NPC's.
>
>>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so I
>>can get
>>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??
>
>Victor Fisher just put up a posting for a PBEM, beware he's evil beyond
>all imagination.
>
>>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and
>>I)
>>will be playing for the first time??
>
>Don't try to follow and nitpick every rule in the book for every
>situation. Also, keep combat with flunkies short and sweet while the
>major confrontation can be pretty long, slomo sequences and all.
>
>>Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly
>>appreciated.
>>
>>Thanx in advance,
>
>No problem, I live to help.
>
>Gweedo the Killer Pimp has struck again!
>
>
Message no. 19
From: Jod <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:23:24 +0200
<<<KASNIP>>

>> -Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>> important for fireweapons.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>(Beetje te letterlijk vertaald geloof ik :)
**Ja, sorry hoor. :).** Excuses to the rest of the list. If ya wanna know,
it's Dutch. :).

Anyway, you don't really need
>miniatures, though they can be handy at times. When it's important to know
>where everyone stands, I usually draw a room on grid paper and write in
>letters and numbers for the PCs and NPCs. When somebody moves, I erase the
>letter or number and write it somewhere else.
>
>> -Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a SIN-number??
>> When will they need it?
>
>Nothing much is ever said about this, so I let players choose if they want
>a SIN or not. ATM I've got two players without and one with a SIN.
>Basically, having a SIN means you can easily pay at all kinds of places,
>you have an ID, and basically you're part of normal society; however, you
>also pay taxes: 33% of your income.
>SINless characters don't pay taxes, but unfortunately they also don't
>exist -- Lone Star can beat you up and there is very little you can do
>against it. You can get kicked out of your house with no warning at all,
>because you don't exist. Many hospitals only admit people with SINs
>(unless you want to go to something like the Universal Brotherhood *evil
>GM grin* or a street doc).
**Thank you for the info.... didn't know that..

<<Thanks for teh advice>>>

>For the very first session, you might want to just set up a simple fight
>between the players on one side and a gang (or whatever) on the other,
>and let them know that whatever happens in that fight will have no impact
>on their characters -- this is just a little exercise for the players that
>is not actually happening to the characters, if you understand what I
>mean. This way you and the rest can learn how the game works, without
>worrying about their characters getting killed in the first firefight.

***Hmmm, what about something like a holodeck as in StarTrek?? Technology
could do that, couldn't it?? Maybe with some sort of SimSens crossover??

>> Well, that's all I can think off. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Hope this helps. BTW, maybe you can answer a question for me: where exact;y
do you live??

I live in Heemstede, next to Haarlem. U???

CU'round,

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 20
From: Jod <chatin@*******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:23:22 +0200
At 01:31 25/08/1997 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-08-24 15:11:24 EDT, you write:
>
>> -Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and I)
>> will be playing for the first time??
>
>Maybe as a suggestion, begin playing with mundanes (non-mages) and no deckers
>initially until the basics of the system are understood.
>
>LOL btw,
>
>AirWisp

**Thankyou!! For the idea... I've read the decking-chapter, and I think it's
kinda boring for the other players while the Decker gets all the action...
Unless some strange alarm spots him and starts sending security to finish of
the 'shell'... so they would have to protect him... hmmmmm...

Well, thanx anyway. And to everyone who replied to my mail. I'll send a
thank you soon!! :)


CU'round,

Jod
chatin@*******.nl
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:36:50 -0600
Jod wrote:
|
[Big Snip]

Jod,

Would you please cut any part of a post that you aren't replying to?
If you received the FAQ, re-read the part about nettiquete and
posting to the list.

Thanks,
-David

Fro and Mark,

Is the FAQ getting sent to new people as they join the list? I'm
wondering if I should give newbies half a chance or torch 'em.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 22
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:31:29 -0400
At 09:00 PM 8/24/97 +0200, Jod wrote these timeless words:
>Hello all,
>
>Let me introduce myself, I'm Jeroen du Chatinier, and I'm new to this list.
>I've played AD&D for, say, 4 years or so, and have recently bought the
>Shadowrun Second edition book. I'm hoping this list will be a help... :)
>
Well then, welcome to the list, Jod...:]

+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED

Hello there, new list-member Jod! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!

It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!

+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #410

Jenny 867-5309

+++++ END AUTO GREET


You've gotten like a couple dozen answers already that have said what I
would say (more or less and sometimes:)), so I'll just eave it for now and
maybe reply to some of theres...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
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Message no. 23
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:03:26 -0700
>-Am I correct if I say that there are no true 'classes' like in ADND?? You
>could make yourself a magic-using decker, in theory... correct??
'though I
>guess it wouldn't be to smart, with essence and all. :).

You are correct..There are no rules that say you have to choose your
class
in general characters will often end up "versatile"...

> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities, except
>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special
sourcebook???

Yes..The Rigger Black 2 book is due out next month..So wait for it.. :)
There
is a current version of the Rigger Blackbook..But with a new version so
close..

>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are quite
>important for fireweapons.

Only if it help you..I often use a dry erase board to keep track of where
everyone
is..it is also quite useful in discribing floorplans..

>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a
SIN-number??
>When will they need it?

Not necessarily..However, for the most part this is the situation..although
forged SINs are usually also purchased at character creation..So a PC
can make
standard purchases like..fuel, clothing, vehicles, food, ect.....Although a
fixer -can-
be used to obtain all of those items..it would be a hassle and expensive..

>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be
Shadowrunners??

Hmm..Actually..once upon a time I would have answered yes..but now in
the companion
there are rules to run other types of characters..So I will say..for the
most part..and
it is probably a good idea to stat out that way..if once you and your
players have a good
grasp of the world, want to try something different out..then go for it..

>-How should I start my campaign?? I've bought 'Super Tuesday'
(youknow, the
>one with Dunkelzahn in front.). Should I use it, or make up my own
'runs'?

Well..since you bought it..I say use it..However, you may want to wait to
use that one in
particular if you intend to run any other pregenerated modules..since the
events in that one come
after many of the modules..if you don't care to buy the old modules..what
the heck..go for it..
simply keep in mind the events in ST are world shaping..

>-Do any of you know how I could get into a Shadowrun PBEM-game, so
I can get
>some experience with the game before I start GM'ing??

Well as a matter of fact "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.com>
has a single opening..
or at least he had one..send him some email and find out..

>-Are there any things I really shouldn't do because we (The group and
I)
>will be playing for the first time??

Hmm..Well try not to spit on your players too much the first couple of
times out..but other than
that..actually..Deckers suck..I rarely allow straight deckers into a
game..the decker stuff usually
gets handled by an NPC..Oh and the Decking rules in the core rule book
are way OOD..Virtual
Realities 2.0 is out if you want to run deckers..It can be done with the
core rules..but those rules
are way fragged up...Otherwise RPing is RPing...

One thing you should do...require your players to write up backgrounds
to their characters..Now
I'mm not saying they should come up with a complete leather bound
volume..But at a minimum
have them do the 20 questions in the core rule book...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 24
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:56:14 -0500
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:20:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Gweedo The Killer Pimp said on 23:21/24 Aug 97...

>Didn't I tell you what .nl stands for? :)

More than likely Netherlands, but I always miss things like that unless
it has a big neon sign attached to it :)

>There aren't really all that much penalties to getting magic and a bit
>of
>cyberware, unless you get a copy of the Grimoire (the advanced magic
>sourcebook for SR) which adds some extra disadvantages to losing Magic
>Rating points.

Still, rounding down for magic points when it comes to essence is pretty
harsh in itself. Does it discuss burnout in the black book?

>That's dangerous, because the players may get the wrong idea.
>Encourage
>them to make interesting characters, and not combat monsters. FORCE
>them
>to have a family and other background material -- don't stand for any
>"His
>family was butchered by orks so I'm gonna kill 'em all and that's all
>there is to it" bulldrek.

The only reason I say this, is that newer players sometimes make combat
monsters with the numbers they put on the sheet. Then the game gets very
boring very quickly when that character can handle 5,000+ flunkies in one
turn. I had to go through this when I played in the Shadows of the
Underworld modules. When the players go up against a powerful Bad guy,
sometimes they tend not to pay attention to they're numbers as much as
how good they can talk themselves out of getting a major ass whuppin.

Gweedo the Killer Pimp has struck again!
Message no. 25
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 03:09:07 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-25 21:48:48 EDT, you write:

> Fro and Mark,
>
> Is the FAQ getting sent to new people as they join the list? I'm
> wondering if I should give newbies half a chance or torch 'em.

Well, I'm neither Fro nor Mark, but I've been on for about a month now, and
I haven't gotten more than the miniFAQ that Fro sent out.
Then again, Five years of local BBS experience tends to make me more
net-aware of bad manners. =)

Wolfstar
Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:50:49 +0100
Jod said on 22:23/25 Aug 97...

> **Thankyou!! For the idea... I've read the decking-chapter

Ditch it. If someone really wants to play a decker, get him or her to buy
Virtual Realities 2.0 and use that instead of the decking rules in SRII.

> and I think it's kinda boring for the other players while the Decker
> gets all the action...

It's much the same when a magician goes onto the astral plane and does a
lot of scouting there. If you want my advice, limit magicians to sorcery,
conjuring, and physical adepts at first -- this'll allow players to make
magicians (if they're **&*-ers my guess is that's what many will want
anyway) but without the added complication of dealing with astral space.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If words were wisdom I'd be talking even more.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 27
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:50:50 +0100
Jod said on 22:23/25 Aug 97...

> >(Beetje te letterlijk vertaald geloof ik :)
> **Ja, sorry hoor. :).** Excuses to the rest of the list. If ya wanna know,
> it's Dutch. :).

I think they know :)

> ***Hmmm, what about something like a holodeck as in StarTrek?? Technology
> could do that, couldn't it?? Maybe with some sort of SimSens crossover??

Something like it is certainly possible, but it's not quite like the
holodeck (I was going to point you to a certain adventure, but I won't
because I'll be running it for my group after I get back from Euro GenCon,
and one of my players is on this list).

What I actually meant was just set up a firefight, and don't worry about
wounds, deaths, ammo expended, and so on. It's just a little fight to
teach the players the basics of the game, and it will never have happened
as far as their characters are concerned (so don't give them Karma for
it). An interesting twist may be to divide the group into two for this and
have them go up against each other. That worked really well for me to
teach players not to get into firefights in Millennium's End, anyway :)

> >Hope this helps. BTW, maybe you can answer a question for me: where exact;y
> do you live??
>
> I live in Heemstede, next to Haarlem. U???

Much too far away :( Zoutelande, 10 km from Middelburg.

One mro thing: remove those bits of a message that you're not replying to
-- it'll avoid you being thwapped or flamed, or having irritated people
shout at you over it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If words were wisdom I'd be talking even more.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 28
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:50:50 +0100
Gweedo The Killer Pimp said on 23:56/25 Aug 97...

> Still, rounding down for magic points when it comes to essence is pretty
> harsh in itself. Does it discuss burnout in the black book?

That's where the Grimoire is needed. Under SRII rules a magician with lots
of cyberware is just a magician with a low Magic rating and some cool
enhancements. With the Grimoire added in, the character gets slapped with
penalties when not abiding by the chosen geas(a) for the lost Magic...

> The only reason I say this, is that newer players sometimes make combat
> monsters with the numbers they put on the sheet. Then the game gets very
> boring very quickly when that character can handle 5,000+ flunkies in one
> turn.

The best way to avoid it, I think, is to get the players to make deeper
characters than just numbers on a sheet. Get them to think about a
personality and a bit of a background _before_ letting them decide on
their attributes and skills. Then when they do something that doesn't fit,
remind them -- a player who states "My character loves to sing karaoke"
(why is anyone's guess, but it'll do) and then doesn't take a Singing
special skill should be reminded of the statement by the GM, IMO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If words were wisdom I'd be talking even more.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 29
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:22:44 -0400
Gurth wrote to his adoring public:
> The best way to avoid it, I think, is to get the players to make deeper
> characters than just numbers on a sheet. Get them to think about a
> personality and a bit of a background _before_ letting them decide on
> their attributes and skills. Then when they do something that doesn't fit,
> remind them -- a player who states "My character loves to sing karaoke"
> (why is anyone's guess, but it'll do) and then doesn't take a Singing
> special skill should be reminded of the statement by the GM, IMO.
>
The character I play using the name Kristling is an art buff. So I gave
him Art History as a skill.

For some reason, he started with two extra Karma.

Anywho, I agree whole heartedly with the Great Gurth of Holl- uh, The
Netherlands.
--Whew! Caught myself before I said Gurth was from Holland... oh,
no.....
Kristling "The Weird" Ravenwing
Coming soon to a garage near you.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
Message no. 30
From: Kevin Pickens <romeo__montague@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:02:23 EDT
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:31:04 +0200 -=/*{Chaszmyr}/*=-
<d96403@***.LYNGBYES.DK> writes:
>At 21.00 24-08-97 +0200, you wrote:
>>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are
>quite
>>important for fireweapons.
>
>I dont use miniatures cause of the price of them and that it takes a
>little
>more time to sort out combat or situations. But it gives the players a
>better perspective of the whole situation there in. And its pretty
>tough to
>make a map with miniatures if one of the runners is firing his
>Vindicator
>at 200m or so.
>I use a map with as many details as possible. Works fine that way.

My GM uses maps (generally out of the books -- with a few mods
occasionally) and writes on them... But then again, he has most of them
laminated... The other way to offset the cost of minis: buy basic gaming
pawns (those little plastic playing pieces in all the games); they also
don't turn brown and brittle if you don't paint them...

Kevin
Message no. 31
From: Kevin Pickens <romeo__montague@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:02:23 EDT
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:21:20 -0500 Gweedo The Killer Pimp
<yawas@****.COM> writes:
>> BTW I think I can find all info I need about the abilities,
>>except
>>about Riggers... do I need to look better or is it in a special
>>sourcebook???
>You'll probably see a lot of RBB2 going around here, that means Rigger
>Black Book Second edition. Most starting groups don't have to worry
>about a rigger thou.

Two things: my first character (made straight out of the SRII core
rules) was a rigger who liked running people over (didn't have enough
ammo for his guns <g>) and the GM loved him...

The other: A release date for RBB2?

>>-Are starting char.'s automaticly SINles?? Or can they buy a
>>SIN-number??
>>When will they need it?
>Background is what you have to worry about here, is it a fake SIN they
>have, or is it good? They'll probably need it as much as you would
>need your social security number, or drivers license.

Said rigger was also a mechanic with LoneStar... My favorite people to
run over were LoneStar cops...

>>-Are all char.'s Shadowrunners?? Do they _need_ to be Shadowrunners??
>Most starting characters are shadowrunners, but great campaigns come
>about by playing out somebody's background, going from average joe, to
>Sammy the Sniper, killer extrordinare.

See also Beyond the Shadows -- lots of cool stuff in there...

RM
Message no. 32
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:39:55 -0500
On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:50:50 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>That's where the Grimoire is needed. Under SRII rules a magician with
>lots
>of cyberware is just a magician with a low Magic rating and some cool
>enhancements. With the Grimoire added in, the character gets slapped
>with
>penalties when not abiding by the chosen geas(a) for the lost Magic...

No geas, OUCH!!!!!! Man, if had the Grimoire sooner than when I got it,
one of my friends characters would have been toast! He'd been like, a no
magic mage.

>The best way to avoid it, I think, is to get the players to make
>deeper
>characters than just numbers on a sheet. Get them to think about a
>personality and a bit of a background _before_ letting them decide on
>their attributes and skills. Then when they do something that doesn't
>fit,
>remind them -- a player who states "My character loves to sing
>karaoke"
>(why is anyone's guess, but it'll do) and then doesn't take a Singing
>special skill should be reminded of the statement by the GM, IMO.

I don't know, not to say that this isn't a good method, but, sometimes
new players don't like to think about background as much as, how much
cyberware can they cram on their character so that he can have a body of
22. BTW, karaoke? I would've picked Deck Building for the SRCCG?

GWEEDo
Message no. 33
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Hello and a bunch 'o questions.
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 06:49:33 GMT
On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:02:23 EDT, Kevin Pickens wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:31:04 +0200 -=/*{Chaszmyr}/*=-
> <d96403@***.LYNGBYES.DK> writes:
> >At 21.00 24-08-97 +0200, you wrote:
> >>-Should I use miniatures for combat situations, since ranges are
> >quite
> >>important for fireweapons.
> >
> >I dont use miniatures cause of the price of them and that it takes a
> >little
> >more time to sort out combat or situations. But it gives the players a
> >better perspective of the whole situation there in. And its pretty
> >tough to
> >make a map with miniatures if one of the runners is firing his
> >Vindicator
> >at 200m or so.
> >I use a map with as many details as possible. Works fine that way.
>
> My GM uses maps (generally out of the books -- with a few mods
> occasionally) and writes on them... But then again, he has most of them
> laminated... The other way to offset the cost of minis: buy basic gaming
> pawns (those little plastic playing pieces in all the games); they also
> don't turn brown and brittle if you don't paint them...

My GM uses a pen (or pencil, but not if he can help it).

Example: The team is making an extraction on a corp on the move. He
is currently en route in his company's limo.

"The car is in front of a tall building (Pen stood on end)... you are
here (finger pointing two inches distant from base of pen)... the limo
is over here (finger switches positions, indicating position of limo)
moving in this direction (finger waving back and forth)... there is a
group of pedestrians standing at the corner (switch pen to other hand
so GM can point with other finger)... etc... etc..."

Never mind that he owns two whiteboards and two sets of dry erase felt
pens-- the mighty "Pen Map Technique" usually takes preference :)

James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
the grace to accept the things I cannot,
and a great big bag of money."

Further Reading

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Thwap!