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From:	Ahrain Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Mon, 8 May 2000 00:53:08 -0400

Message no. 1 I was wondering if anyone would have any ideas on how to work (system wise)
the vehicular scaling of Star Wars to a basic SR format? The system I
worked out uses the idea for naval "scale" modifications but it's about as
holey as Swiss cheese hit by buckshot.

ANY ideas or comments welcome. I posted this 4 days ago and got ignored. I
figured it was because of the fact that I was rambling.*shrug* sorry.

Ahrain

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Mon, 8 May 2000 11:12:38 +0200

Message no. 2 According to Ahrain, at 0:53 on 8 May 00, the word on the street was...

> I was wondering if anyone would have any ideas on how to work (system wise)
> the vehicular scaling of Star Wars to a basic SR format? The system I
> worked out uses the idea for naval "scale" modifications but it's about as
> holey as Swiss cheese hit by buckshot.

I don't think it would work too well because of the differences in the two
game systems. I don't remember exactly how the Star Wars RPG vehicle rules
work, but didn't they in- or decrease the number of dice available based
on the relative scale of attacker and target? In SW that works wonders in
making something really tough, since more dice virtually always translates
to a better roll there (because you add up the dice rolls), while in SR
you'd need to add much larger amounts of dice to make it work -- more dice
does not automatically mean better rolls in SR, only a _chance_ of rolling
higher.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
But it's obviously a dream, as I'm waiting for that beam...
--Millencollin, "Vulcan Ears"
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Mon, 08 May 2000 11:28:22 +0200

Message no. 3 Gurth wrote:
>
>
> I don't think it would work too well because of the differences in the two
> game systems. I don't remember exactly how the Star Wars RPG vehicle rules
> work, but didn't they in- or decrease the number of dice available based
> on the relative scale of attacker and target? In SW that works wonders in

No, individual dice were given maximum or minimum values. If I was to
take a potshot at, say, an aircraft carrier, then my dice cap might be
5, since it's easier than hitting the broad side of a barn. So that if
I roll a 3, 6, 5, 6, 1, 5, then that gets converted to 5, 6, 5, 6, 5,
5. The damage roll, however, would be capped down (say to a 2), in
which case the same roll would become 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2.

If a star destroyer was to take a shot at a lone individual who deserved
it (say, jar jar binks), their dice would be capped with a maximum
value, like in the previous example, just to hit him, and with a minimum
value for the damage roll. They're *extremely* unlikely to hit him, but
if they do, they're left with gunganburgers.

As gurth said (and I snipped), the system works by adding the dice
rolls, which is why this mechanic for staging damage works.

I don't really think it's possible to convert this to shadowrun, then.
You'd have to come up with a whole new way of doing it.

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com

"As a computer, I find your faith in technology to be quite amusing"

From:	Ahrain Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Mon, 8 May 2000 12:41:16 -0400

Message no. 4 ----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Versfeld <moe@*******.com>
Subject: Re: HELP! Vehicle question!

> No, individual dice were given maximum or minimum values. If I was to
> take a potshot at, say, an aircraft carrier, then my dice cap might be
> 5, since it's easier than hitting the broad side of a barn. So that if
> I roll a 3, 6, 5, 6, 1, 5, then that gets converted to 5, 6, 5, 6, 5,
> 5. The damage roll, however, would be capped down (say to a 2), in
> which case the same roll would become 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2.

This is from 1st ed., 2nd handles it a bit differently.

> As gurth said (and I snipped), the system works by adding the dice
> rolls, which is why this mechanic for staging damage works.
>
> I don't really think it's possible to convert this to shadowrun, then.
> You'd have to come up with a whole new way of doing it.

I get your point. THAT is exactly on what I am asking help on.
What I did was increase the "power" of the attack based on the scale of the
vehicle. One of the problems I was having was

First) Keeping the level of damage the way it is between vehicles and
people.

Second) The differences between power levels farther up the scale.
Cyberpirates gives naval scale weaponry as compared to humans. Wouldn't
vehicles fare a little better? (not much I admit, but a little?) And
wouldn't a laser from a vehicle (made especially FOR a vehicle AGAINST
vehicles) do more damage or be harder to stage down if it hit a human?

This doesn't neccessarily have to be out of the SR universe. This could
also help those that DO have space in their universe. What happens when
your PC's try and use a shuttle to attack Zurich Orbital. You could just
arbitrarily say "NO DAMAGE" or state little damage but there would be at
least some. Also with this you could figure out exactly what the Thor's
Hammer (IIRC the name) could do to things (other than just obliterate them)
:)

Ken, you're on of hte big gearheads and system converters, any thoughts?

>
> --
> Allen Versfeld
> moe@*******.com
>
> "As a computer, I find your faith in technology to be quite amusing"
>
>
>

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Mon, 8 May 2000 20:15:17 +0200

Message no. 5 According to Allen Versfeld, at 11:28 on 8 May 00, the word on the street
was...

> No, individual dice were given maximum or minimum values. If I was to
> take a potshot at, say, an aircraft carrier, then my dice cap might be
> 5, since it's easier than hitting the broad side of a barn. So that if
> I roll a 3, 6, 5, 6, 1, 5, then that gets converted to 5, 6, 5, 6, 5,
> 5. The damage roll, however, would be capped down (say to a 2), in
> which case the same roll would become 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2.

Not in the version of the SW rules I have access to (I didn't this
morning, but now I can check the book :) which is the glossy, revised,
second edition from 1996.

According to page 95, you add or subtract dice based on the scale
difference. A starfighter firing a blaster at a star destroyer would add 6
dice to the attack roll, while the star destroyer adds 6 dice to its
damage resistance roll, for example. That same star destroyer firing at
Jar Jar means Jar Jar adds 12 dice to its dodge roll, but the star
destroyer adds 12 dice to its damage roll.

> As gurth said (and I snipped), the system works by adding the dice
> rolls, which is why this mechanic for staging damage works.
>
> I don't really think it's possible to convert this to shadowrun, then.
> You'd have to come up with a whole new way of doing it.

That's what I think, too. If you want to do it, you could base it on Body
ratings, maybe (humans count as Body 1?): a smaller vehicle firing at a
larger one adds the difference in Body ratings to its attack test, but the
larger vehicle adds that same difference to its Body to resist the damage.
When a larger vehicle fires on a smaller one, the smaller adds the
difference to its driver's test to dodge incoming fire (only if the driver
is a rigger, of course) and the larger adds it to its attack test.

However, because both sides will be rolling the same number of dice, so
unless the TNs are widely different this probably won't really make much
of a difference except for large vehicles firing at non-rigger-controlled
smaller ones.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
But it's obviously a dream, as I'm waiting for that beam...
--Millencollin, "Vulcan Ears"
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Tue, 09 May 2000 09:31:41 +0200

Message no. 6 Gurth wrote:
>
> According to Allen Versfeld, at 11:28 on 8 May 00, the word on the street
> was...
>
> > No, individual dice were given maximum or minimum values. If I was to
[snip]
> > which case the same roll would become 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2.
>
> Not in the version of the SW rules I have access to (I didn't this
> morning, but now I can check the book :) which is the glossy, revised,
> second edition from 1996.

Ahrain, Gurth, I stand corrected - I never even knew there was a second
ed. I can't wait to break the news to our starwars GM :-)

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com

"As a computer, I find your faith in technology to be quite amusing"

From:	Ahrain Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com
Subject:	HELP! Vehicle question!
Date:	Tue, 9 May 2000 12:18:19 -0400

Message no. 7 ----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Versfeld <moe@*******.com>
Subject: Re: HELP! Vehicle question!

> Ahrain, Gurth, I stand corrected - I never even knew there was a second
> ed. I can't wait to break the news to our starwars GM :-)

Do I, by chance, detect a bit of sarcasm? :P

> Allen Versfeld
> moe@*******.com
>
> "As a computer, I find your faith in technology to be quite amusing"

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