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Message no. 1
From: Justin Elliott <justin.elliott@*******.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:19:33 +1200
In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
"problems" the group has.

What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.

I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!

thanks
Justin E.

p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
Message no. 2
From: Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 00:46:08 CDT
>In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
>very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
>operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
>"problems" the group has.
>
>What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
>an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
>well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
>
>I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!

If the runners are in London, isn't magic supposedly pretty regulated? I
would have one of the "enemy"(you never know in Shadowrun) mages just
"happen" to have Slay Nature Spirit(it's in the Grimoire) The actual
context is Slay Race/Species, but I think nature spirits would count. If
not, have one of the enemy shamans just "happen" to have an extremely high
Charisma and let them get a nature spirit together. Or have the enemy have
a free spirit doing guard duty. Or have watcher spirits guarding any place
the runners go to. Or, as I've suggested in another post about monowire,
have that corp use monofilament wires across key locations(doors, windows,
corridors, etc...) The operative phrase that I use to explain such unusual
events to my runners is the same as Forrest Gump: Shit happens :-)
Or maybe someone up there from wherever nature spirits come from starts to
notice this petty shaman summoning all his/her/it's servants and decides to
teach him a lesson in manners and self-reliance :-)

>p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 11:05:12 GMT
Samuel Jones writes

> >In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> >very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> >operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> >"problems" the group has.
> >
> >What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> >an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> >well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
> >
i assume you mean 'barrier' type spell by 'shield' ??

> >I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!
>
> If the runners are in London, isn't magic supposedly pretty regulated?
Just slightly <very evil gm grin>
if you use magic and are not 'registered' they bounce you royaly and
i mean with enough force to ensure capture (assuming you don't pull
the fade before the swat team shows up). Registration means a blood
sample and a bit of all your foci, rituaal magi anyone, from a whole
group of druids, and you can bet they got a handy stone circle for
the ritual, druidic background count - count off all their target
numbers, can we say OUCH!

> i would have one of the "enemy"(you never know in Shadowrun) mages
> just
> "happen" to have Slay Nature Spirit(it's in the Grimoire) The actual
> context is Slay Race/Species, but I think nature spirits would count.
As i said on the 'who would survive thread' a nice rating 6 damaging
manip does wounders (in 2nd ed) you need 4's it needs 6's now i
wonder who got the net successes.

> a free spirit doing guard duty.
yeah tha common.

> Or have watcher spirits guarding any place
> the runners go to.
common practice at any place touting magical security. about force 3
real cheap as all it has to do is go sceam at something big enough to
do the job, and before you say just fry it try killing 4 or so before
1 of them gets to run off, not so easy when they are well spread out.

> Or, as I've suggested in another post about monowire,
> have that corp use monofilament wires across key locations(doors, windows,
> corridors, etc...)
NAGRL - but that won't phase the spirt, oh no willpower behind it oh
well, no damage.

> Or maybe someone up there from wherever nature spirits come from starts to
> notice this petty shaman summoning all his/her/it's servants and decides to
> teach him a lesson in manners and self-reliance :-)
>
only valid if hes abusing them, if he is <grin> go ahead be evil but
be kind and issue mild warnings first.

> >p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
>
other ideas.
partroling elementals, if used in pair the friends in meele will kill
it nicely esp earth that get +1 reach.
Do remember you are not allowed to order nature spirits into combat
the same way as elementals, no h-h damage code listed (you get it
from the astral attack chart or assume force M when the spirt gets
attacked when of couse it can fight back).
If you have corpsec try FAB, ok no super solution but it should make
astral harder to use safely.

Mark
Message no. 4
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 14:07:00 +0200
> In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> "problems" the group has.
>
> What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.

His barrier spell is just a matter of power. Just pick a weapon with a
power code high enough to get through. End besides as you surely know
speed is everything, just put him up a faaaast samurai that wont give him
enough time to summon his spirit/cast his barrier in the first place.
You could also use an average street shaman and his spirit and use the
confusion power on him, that is a personal favourite as it never fails
to incapacitate the target :) The list can get real long, just use your
imagination, killing players is not that hard :)

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 5
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:24:02 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes

> > In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> > very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> > operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> > "problems" the group has.
> >
> > What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> > an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> > well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
>
> His barrier spell is just a matter of power. Just pick a weapon with a
> power code high enough to get through.
yes just remember its a barrier, ie takes dame from each bullet that
hits it, so 3 round burst is three hits, it should fall down fairly
quickley, i have seen this happen to both a PC and NPC general
barrier spell lifetime is a simple action at force 6!. ok if the
things force 10 it might last a bit longer but a couple of decent
bursts should still drop it.

> End besides as you surely know
> speed is everything, just put him up a faaaast samurai that wont give him
> enough time to summon his spirit/cast his barrier in the first place.
and if he wanders about with it spell locked well <grin>

> You could also use an average street shaman and his spirit and use the
> confusion power on him, that is a personal favourite as it never fails
> to incapacitate the target :) The list can get real long, just use your
> imagination, killing players is not that hard :)
>
ah the wonders of power spell defense does not affect!

> --
> Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
>
Mark
Message no. 6
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 09:03:20 -0400
> >In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> >very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> >operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> >"problems" the group has.
>
> If the runners are in London, isn't magic supposedly pretty regulated? I
> would have one of the "enemy"(you never know in Shadowrun) mages just
> "happen" to have Slay Nature Spirit(it's in the Grimoire) The actual
> context is Slay Race/Species, but I think nature spirits would count.

Errrr.... I don't think I'd go for that call in my campaign. A nature
spirit is neither a race nor a species; spirits are such a completely
different form of "life" that you would need a different sort of magic
entirely. Just like you can't banish those annoying Yakuza goons.


> If not, have one of the enemy shamans just "happen" to have an extremely
high
> Charisma and let them get a nature spirit together.

Even better if it's in Great Form. The Eagle Shaman in question probably
never bothers with such high ritual. Then the G.F. spirit chases 'em across
domain lines, where the Shaman's spirit can't go.. Zzzzzzzzip.


> Or have the enemy have
> a free spirit doing guard duty.

This has plot complications. A free spirit powerful enough to eat a nature
spirit for breakfast probably doesn't spend its time watching doorways.
But, if you can justify it, sure.


> Or, as I've suggested in another post about monowire,
> have that corp use monofilament wires across key locations(doors, windows,
> corridors, etc...)

Is this supposed to stop the spirit, or the runner? Spirits have no reason
to care about monowire.. The runner, of course, would care very much. For
a very short time.


> Or maybe someone up there from wherever nature spirits come from starts to
> notice this petty shaman summoning all his/her/it's servants and decides to
> teach him a lesson in manners and self-reliance :-)

Now THIS one I REALLY like! >8-> What wonderful justice. Since self-
reliance is one of the attributes the shaman is slipping with, perhaps Eagle
Itself would give some support to whatever comes down and teaches him
(mayhap even rendering the shaman powerless to conjure.)

Other ideas:

A high background count. REALLY high. They stumble over a ley line, and
spirit and shaman both have trouble getting their heads together.

Toxic areas. (I remember there's a large part of the British Isles that are
poisoned, but I don't have a sourcebook or map that would tell me which
area.) The shaman can't summon his spirit there, or if he does, the spirit
comes out twisted and hostile...

Null magic zones. Why? Well, the corp is wondering that too, and they've
sent their own heavily armed research team...

Finally, remember the One Great Big Limitation of nature spirits: They can't
cross domains. Hearth spirits can't be outdoors, most other spirits can't
be indoors, etc. Place the shaman practically _anywhere_ he didn't expect
to be, and then make his life suddenly interesting.


Whatever you do, it's best to place some plot around it so it doesn't look
contrived like you're out to break his spirit. (Pun only mildly intended.)
Remember, you're the Game Master, he's the player. YOU tell HIM what he
can and can't do, not vice versa.


Blessings, and Have Fun,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Invisible Pink Unicorns
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu|
My opinions are my opinions. | "Engage in random acts of happiness
Please don't blame anyone else. | and senseless beauty."
Message no. 7
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 07:45:05 -0700
>What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this,
>other than using an equaly charismatic mage or shaman.
>By the way he has a shield spell as well so straight out
>physical attacks won't work either.
>
>I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!
>Justin E.

You could always ground a spell through the
shield spell (unless you don't allow this *depending
on sustained quickened or locked*)
Have a conjuring adept challenge him for control
of the spirit and turn it against him.
have 10 or 15 (2 - 6)force watchers attack him when he
goes/looks astral.
Knock a barrel of gas over near his feet - while holding
a lit lighter
Use a levitate or use the Net spell Explode - which sets
off all ammo and explosives.
Dispell his shield spell.
Cast control actions and have him send the spirit after the
party, or cast chaos world so the spirit can't hear his orders.

Just a few suggestions.
Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 8
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 23:02:08 +1000
Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.unicomp.net> wrote:


> >In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> >very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> >operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> >"problems" the group has.

The TN is still 8 to get any services from it, so he wouldn't get many
services. And they're limited because they can't leave their own
domain - generally this means you've got to be at your target
location before the spirit will be much use. And you can't have
more than one spirit summoned per domain at any one time.

A Phys Ad with reasonable melee skill will be able to chop a Force 8
spirit up pretty easily, too.

And every now and then the area that the spirit being summoned is,
will be polluted and toxic. This means he's likely to get a Toxic
spirit (GM's decision) from the successful summoning - which won't
be under his control, and will probably attack with nasty special
effects.

Oh, and we changed the rules to limit shamans to only being able to
summon a total number of spirits equal to their charisma, in any
given sunrise-sunset period.

Hope this helps,

luke
Message no. 9
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:10:52 +0200
Justin Elliott wrote:
> In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> "problems" the group has.
> What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.

Let 'em encounter Areas with high Background-Count... Has there been much
pollution? Any mass-murders? Magic testing? Is there anybody living here?
Is the appearing spirit what the shaman wanted, or is it a toxic
spirit?

This is just what happened to me.. if you need more, I will start
thinking... :-/

Sascha

--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:24:58 GMT
Sascha Pabst writes

>
> Let 'em encounter Areas with high Background-Count... Has there been much
> pollution? Any mass-murders? Magic testing? Is there anybody living here?
> Is the appearing spirit what the shaman wanted, or is it a toxic
> spirit?
>
it then gets bonus force equal to the toxic background count, ah yes
that force 8 becomes a 13 toxic that has a number 1 priority called
turn shaman into lunch

Just don't do this too often, you won't be popular! <grin> , though
the shaman should take care toxic sites are usually easy to spot.

> This is just what happened to me.. if you need more, I will start
> thinking... :-/
>
> Sascha
>
Mark
Message no. 11
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:50:03 +0200
One more thing I forgot:

Eagle is a wilderness totem. In any urban area there should arise
problems if hard, mighty, unusual magic/summoning is done.
Maybe Eagle would remind the shaman of his origins which are NOT
valleys between skyscrappers and Arcologies.

Maybe Eagle withdraws the power to conjure a spirit after conjuring
the 8th Spirit of Men... or deserves a journey to the metaplanes to
summon even a normal spirit?

Well, Wolf does this sometimes *sigh*

Sascha
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
Message no. 12
From: Mr Bob Sagittarian <habelmon@********.CS.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:16:39 +0930
>
> In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> "problems" the group has.
>
> What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
>
> I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!
>
> thanks
> Justin E.
>
> p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
>

Well, as a GM, all that you need to do is kill the character while
he is asleep. Or of course, you could plant a bomb in his car, or get a
hostile decker to plant some seriously incriminating info to interested
corps. Or hell, you could have a rigger run his car over him. Or launch
a Anti-Personnel missile at him. Or put him in a toxic zone, where he can't
raise spirits. Or have a watcher shave his eyebrows off while he's asleep.

Shit, you're the GM, you can do anything. Geez. My personal favourite would
be to decapitate him with monowire. Or take him in for corporate scientific
testing. Love that Biotech!

--

Bob Sagittarian Odds & Ends
habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 13
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:29:23 +0200
:->>
:->> In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
:->> very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
:->> operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
:->> "problems" the group has.
:->>
:->> What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
:->> an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
:->> well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
:->>
:->> I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!
:->>
:->> thanks
:->> Justin E.
:->>
:->> p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
:->>
:->
:-> Well, as a GM, all that you need to do is kill the character while
:->he is asleep. Or of course, you could plant a bomb in his car, or get a
:->hostile decker to plant some seriously incriminating info to interested
:->corps. Or hell, you could have a rigger run his car over him. Or launch
:->a Anti-Personnel missile at him. Or put him in a toxic zone, where he can't
:->raise spirits. Or have a watcher shave his eyebrows off while he's asleep.
:->
:->Shit, you're the GM, you can do anything. Geez. My personal favourite would
:->be to decapitate him with monowire. Or take him in for corporate scientific
:->testing. Love that Biotech!

Correct me if I am wrong, I think that London does have a
pollution problem. Right here is an idea (it occured in one of our
games). Make one of the spirits the shamen calls turn tables on him.
In our case somehow a toxic spirit managed to wrest control of a city
spirit that a wolf shaman summoned. From then on he might summon
smaller spirits. Even better place him in a situation where he has to
comprimise his shamanic ideas, bye bye bonuses..

Andre'


Man is a teller of stories, he lives by and is surrounded by his
own stories and those of other people, he sees everythings that
happens to him in terms of these stories and thus has to live
enacting them
-Sarte

GARFIELD !
-Jon
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:49:26 GMT
> >
> > In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> > very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> > operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> > "problems" the group has.
> >
> > What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> > an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> > well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.

> > Justin E.
> >
> > p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
> >
[Long list of terminaly fatal suggestions trimmed]
>
Things that can work.
1) ensure that he has to cross some domain boundaries, unless he want
sto go around whipping up great froms to order that should suggest a
more flexible approach. No way is he going to take light enough drain
from that to be very functional afterwards.
2) Have the cops (British variety don't take well to bribes) show up
more quickley to this sort of thing, they are not at all keen on
unregistered magicians in 2050's Britain. No one said they had to
catch the PC but that should suggets sublety.

3) If you have to take him down use the net gun out of SSC loaded
with large nets, personal barrier does not stop entangles, and you
can get inside the area effect one by using cover to stay out of
sight until the magician gets close enough (as if it blocks out of
LOS you could not move these type spells fo buildings in the way.)

4) use dispelling or astral combat against those sustained spells. Or
just drop things though the astral connections. I seem to get a large
number of complaints about 'exploding magician' syndrome. [they do
learn however, esp using detect enemies, i just have not demonstrated
the solution to that yet] Masking properly used will solve this
problem however.

> --
>
Mark

Hope that helps.
Message no. 15
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:16:45 +0300
On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:

> >
> > In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with a
> > very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
> > operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with any
> > "problems" the group has.
> >
> > What I am after is some help with ideas to counter this, other than using
> > an equaly charismatic mage or shaman. By the way he has a shield spell as
> > well so straight out physical attacks won't work either.
if you want to kill him or to hurt him put him a street samurai with
wired reflexes 3 and a smg with APDS!!! i am sure this gu will gona kick
his butt!!!!
> > >
> I have some ideas but any help would be appreciated!
> >
> > thanks
> > Justin E.
> >
> > p.s. The games set in London if that helps.
> >
>
> Well, as a GM, all that you need to do is kill the character while
> he is asleep. Or of course, you could plant a bomb in his car, or get a
> hostile decker to plant some seriously incriminating info to interested
> corps. Or hell, you could have a rigger run his car over him. Or launch
> a Anti-Personnel missile at him. Or put him in a toxic zone, where he can't
> raise spirits. Or have a watcher shave his eyebrows off while he's asleep.
>
> Shit, you're the GM, you can do anything. Geez. My personal favourite would
> be to decapitate him with monowire. Or take him in for corporate scientific
> testing. Love that Biotech!
>
> --
>
> Bob Sagittarian Odds & Ends
> habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
> stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 16
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: Help wanted with an Elven Shaman.
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:20:06 +0200
:->On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:
:->
:->> >
:->> > In the group of runners in the game I run, is an Elven Eagle Shaman with
:->a
:->> > very high Charisma.(max for an elf). Needless to say his usual way of
:->> > operating is to summon a LARGE nature spirit and use that to deal with an
:->y
:->> > "problems" the group has.
:->> >

There are all sorts of nasty diseases out there, some effect
Charisma, other leave you week, several are still uncurable.

Andre'
Man is a teller of stories, he lives by and is surrounded by his
own stories and those of other people, he sees everythings that
happens to him in terms of these stories and thus has to live
enacting them
-Sarte

GARFIELD !
-Jon

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