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Message no. 1
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:53:00 MST
What is a hermetic circle? Is that the general name for any kind of
hermetic circle, as in a summoning cirlce or cirlce used for ritual sorcery?
Under astral barriers, they list a hermetic circle, but how do you make one
and how much do the materials cost?

This is how I thought it worked: To summon an air elemental, you buy air
elemental conjuring materials. Then you use those materials to create an
air elemental conjuring circle. Then you summon the elemental and the
circle is spent. It now has no magical value at all, except radiating some
traces in the astral plane that an air elemantal was recently summoned here.

So is a hermentic circle an constructed conjuring circle or ritual sorcery
circle that just has been constructed but no used yet?

A medicine lodge is created and lasts until taken down. What is the mage's
analog to the medicine lodge?

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:16:26 +0000
|
|What is a hermetic circle? Is that the general name for any kind of
|hermetic circle, as in a summoning cirlce or cirlce used for ritual sorcery?
| Under astral barriers, they list a hermetic circle, but how do you make one
|and how much do the materials cost?

A hermetic circle can be used for ANYTHING.....
It's a general purpose type thing.... (As long as it's set for the right
force....)

|So is a hermentic circle an constructed conjuring circle or ritual sorcery
|circle that just has been constructed but no used yet?
|A medicine lodge is created and lasts until taken down. What is the mage's
|analog to the medicine lodge?

A hermitic circle IS the mages analogue to the Medicine Lodge....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Hermetic Circles -Reply
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:23:02 -0500
My understanding of hermetic circles was this (I'm not consulting the books right
now):

The materials for a hermetic circle are generic (special paint, essentially) but
there are a number of different patterns you can inscribe with them. The pattern
you draw depends on what you want to summon (consult your hermetic library,
please). At this point, all you have is a bunch of mundane (but expensive) paint
on the floor (anyone with magic theory will recognize what you drew, though).

Then you get your summoning supplies ready and start a summoning. As part of
this act the hermetic circle gets "charged" and becomes an astral barrier. The
summoning materials get spent. An elemental appears or doesnt appear or
whatever. Once the summoning is done the circle looses its charge and becomes
paint again (with no astral presence). It is, however, still a hermetic circle and the
mage could dig out a second batch of summoning materials and use it again right
away.

If it ever became an issue, I'd probably rule that any hermetic mage could
"activate" any hermetic circle he was within a few meters of (inside or out) and
keep it up as an astral barrier for as long as he concentrated on it (I'd treat it like
a sustained spell w/ +2 to TNs except conjuring).

BTW: While the rules don't explicitly state this, I believe the way it works is this:
the mage stands outside the circle, powers it up, summons the spirit to appear
INSIDE the circle. The spirit now can't escape, so the mage has a bit of time to
bargain for services. Once thats done, the circle can be dropped.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 4
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:27:00 MST
>A hermetic circle can be used for ANYTHING.....
>It's a general purpose type thing.... (As long as it's set for the right
>force....)

How much do a hermetic circle materials cost? How long does it take to
create? I haven't seen any rules on that. Is it separate from a elemental
conjuring circle or ritual sorcery circle?

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 5
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:42:26 -0800
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Denzil Kruse wrote:

> What is a hermetic circle? Is that the general name for any kind of
> hermetic circle, as in a summoning cirlce or cirlce used for ritual sorcery?
> Under astral barriers, they list a hermetic circle, but how do you make one
> and how much do the materials cost?

The circles are purpose specifics....i.e. [:)] there are summoning circles
(4 types), ritual sorcery circles, and etc.. And you can't use one for
the other purpose.

Cost:
I have no idea...:)

>
> This is how I thought it worked: To summon an air elemental, you buy air
> elemental conjuring materials. Then you use those materials to create an
> air elemental conjuring circle. Then you summon the elemental and the
> circle is spent. It now has no magical value at all, except radiating some
> traces in the astral plane that an air elemantal was recently summoned here.

Nope, summoning circles last indefinetly. If you create an air elemental
circle, you can keep using that _circle_ for as long as it is intact to
summon air elementals. However, you do need to keep buying the
_materials_ for the summoning ritual. The materials and the circle are
two separate things.

>
> So is a hermentic circle an constructed conjuring circle or ritual sorcery
> circle that just has been constructed but no used yet?

A hermetic circle is an arcane circle constructed for a specific
purpose...be it conjuring, ritual sorcery or something else.

>
> A medicine lodge is created and lasts until taken down. What is the mage's
> analog to the medicine lodge?

They have their libraries and circles.

>
> Denzil Kruse
> d.kruse@****.com
>

~Tim
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:45:27 +0000
|
|On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Denzil Kruse wrote:
|
|> What is a hermetic circle? Is that the general name for any kind of
|> hermetic circle, as in a summoning cirlce or cirlce used for ritual sorcery?
|> Under astral barriers, they list a hermetic circle, but how do you make one
|> and how much do the materials cost?
|
|The circles are purpose specifics....i.e. [:)] there are summoning circles
|(4 types), ritual sorcery circles, and etc.. And you can't use one for
|the other purpose.

Ooops... my mistake then......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:49:06 -0500
Denzil Kruse wrote:

> >A hermetic circle can be used for ANYTHING.....
> >It's a general purpose type thing.... (As long as it's set for the right
> >force....)

> How much do a hermetic circle materials cost? How long does it take to
> create? I haven't seen any rules on that. Is it separate from a elemental
> conjuring circle or ritual sorcery circle?

Okay. Here goes:

A Hermetic Circle is the generic term for any circle a Hermetic
tradition Mage/Adept creates. This circle can then be used for Ritual
Sorcery, Conjuring Elementals, etc. However, keep in mind that once a
circle is designated as being used for conjuring Earth elementals (for
example), it can not be used for ritual sorcery or conjuring any other
types of elementals. (I may be wrong about that, but think that is
correct based on what I researched a few months ago.)

However, if you have a rating 6 hermetic circle that you use for
summoning Earth elementals, you can use it again later to summon another
elemental of force 6 or less...then you can use it again and again as
long as the elemental's force does not exceed the rating of the circle
it is summoned it. Keep in mind that you must also buy the appropriate
conjuring materials any time you wish to summon an elemental, and those
are used up in the summoning.

I have come up with some rules regarding Hermetic Circles and making
them more personalized to the Magician who creates them if anyone is
interested. Let me know, and I might post them. (It doesn't make much
sense to have all hermetic circles work equally well for all
Hermetics...it's simple, but not realistic.)

Justin :)

> Denzil Kruse
> d.kruse@****.com

--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 8
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:11:08 -0800
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
# A Hermetic Circle is the generic term for any circle a Hermetic
# tradition Mage/Adept creates. This circle can then be used for Ritual
# Sorcery, Conjuring Elementals, etc. However, keep in mind that once a
# circle is designated as being used for conjuring Earth elementals (for
# example), it can not be used for ritual sorcery or conjuring any other
# types of elementals. (I may be wrong about that, but think that is
# correct based on what I researched a few months ago.)
#
That's how it works AFAIK. For those with trouble visualising
what's going on, you might try looking at the Diabolist rules from the
Palladium RPG. They have two pages of various circles for various
effects......


The Spaceman |You are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.
spaced@*.washington.edu |That is enough.
Check out the Bill Page! | -The Player
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
Message no. 9
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:59:00 MST
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
# A Hermetic Circle is the generic term for any circle a Hermetic
# tradition Mage/Adept creates. This circle can then be used for Ritual
# Sorcery, Conjuring Elementals, etc. However, keep in mind that once a
# circle is designated as being used for conjuring Earth elementals (for
# example), it can not be used for ritual sorcery or conjuring any other
# types of elementals. (I may be wrong about that, but think that is
# correct based on what I researched a few months ago.)
#

Okay, that makes sense. I am just thrown off by the fact that a hermetic
circle doesn't cost any money in materials. Everything a hermetic does
seems to cost money. I guess he/she/it(!) gets a break here. Or should it
be 1000 nuyen/force?

So I how long does a hermetic circle take to construct? How big is it?
What are the limitations? I would guess it would be the same as the other
circles. It takes an hour/force to make, it is 1 meter in diameter/force,
and the mage limited by his magic attribute in force. What kind of library
do you need to make one? A magic theory or none? (What's a none library?:)

And once a hermetic circle is completed, whethere it is in use or not, is
has an astral presence as a barrier. So I guess this would be a cheaper way
of creating an astral barrier (see Wards) but it covers a smaller area.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 10
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:25:08 -0800
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Denzil Kruse wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
> # A Hermetic Circle is the generic term for any circle a Hermetic
> # tradition Mage/Adept creates. This circle can then be used for Ritual
> # Sorcery, Conjuring Elementals, etc. However, keep in mind that once a
> # circle is designated as being used for conjuring Earth elementals (for
> # example), it can not be used for ritual sorcery or conjuring any other
> # types of elementals. (I may be wrong about that, but think that is
> # correct based on what I researched a few months ago.)
> #
>
> Okay, that makes sense. I am just thrown off by the fact that a hermetic
> circle doesn't cost any money in materials. Everything a hermetic does
> seems to cost money. I guess he/she/it(!) gets a break here. Or should it
> be 1000 nuyen/force?

OK, so a can of "Acme Mystik Circle Paint" costs you 10 nuyen, 15 if you
want day-glo or metalic colors. :)

>
> So I how long does a hermetic circle take to construct? How big is it?
> What are the limitations? I would guess it would be the same as the other
> circles. It takes an hour/force to make, it is 1 meter in diameter/force,
> and the mage limited by his magic attribute in force. What kind of library
> do you need to make one? A magic theory or none? (What's a none library?:)

I think it takes Magic Theory to make circles...I remember reading
something about it. It _does_ say specifically that Hermetic Circles take
1 hr/force to create in SRII. And the Diameter is pretty much what you
said (I think..or was it (force) meters, or 3 meters, which ever was
larger).

>
> And once a hermetic circle is completed, whethere it is in use or not, is
> has an astral presence as a barrier. So I guess this would be a cheaper way
> of creating an astral barrier (see Wards) but it covers a smaller area.
>

Yup...Active Circle = Astral Barrier. Except that it must be active, so
you must be in the process of summoning or ritual sorcery-ing for it to
act as a barrier.

I wonder if you could devise a way to create a circle that's sole purpose
is to emulate a ward, but on a smaller scale - so as to create a small
protective/containment barrier?

> Denzil Kruse
> d.kruse@****.com
>

~Tim
Message no. 11
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:38:42 -0500
Denzil Kruse wrote:

<Snip of my post>

> Okay, that makes sense. I am just thrown off by the fact that a hermetic
> circle doesn't cost any money in materials. Everything a hermetic does
> seems to cost money. I guess he/she/it(!) gets a break here. Or should it
> be 1000 nuyen/force?

I don't know off hand...there is a price somewhere, I believe (probably
the Grimthingy).

> So I how long does a hermetic circle take to construct? How big is it?
> What are the limitations? I would guess it would be the same as the other
> circles. It takes an hour/force to make, it is 1 meter in diameter/force,
> and the mage limited by his magic attribute in force. What kind of library
> do you need to make one? A magic theory or none? (What's a none library?:)

I know the diameter is Force x 3 in meters, but the rest will have to be
looked up.

> And once a hermetic circle is completed, whethere it is in use or not, is
> has an astral presence as a barrier. So I guess this would be a cheaper way
> of creating an astral barrier (see Wards) but it covers a smaller area.

The astral barrier effect is only active when the Hermetic Circle is
active (Read: in use).

> Denzil Kruse
> d.kruse@****.com

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 12
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:42:24 PST
>OK, so a can of "Acme Mystik Circle Paint" costs you 10 nuyen, 15 if you
>want day-glo or metalic colors. :)

*flips copy of SRII open to Detection Spells*

Funny, I would have sworn it was spelled Mystic. Looks like you're right.
Message no. 13
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:01:11 -0800
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Benjamin wrote:

> >OK, so a can of "Acme Mystik Circle Paint" costs you 10 nuyen, 15 if
you
> >want day-glo or metalic colors. :)
>
> *flips copy of SRII open to Detection Spells*
>
> Funny, I would have sworn it was spelled Mystic. Looks like you're right.
>

Whew..<wipes sweat from forhead>..I couldn't remember either but then I
remembered noticing that it looked non-standard..so I took a stab at it.

Always liked that picture...:)
Sorta tells you how comercialized magic is in SR... I imagine that you
could also buy name-brand conjuring materials too!

~Tim
Message no. 14
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:47:20 -0600
On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Denzil Kruse wrote:

> So I how long does a hermetic circle take to construct? How big is it?
> What are the limitations? I would guess it would be the same as the other
> circles. It takes an hour/force to make, it is 1 meter in diameter/force,

> Denzil Kruse
> d.kruse@****.com

Isn't it 3+Force diameter? I thought the example given was a Froce 6
circle, with a diameter of 9. COuld be wrong though, don't have my book
with me.
-Court

/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
raining today, no place to park, car's out of gas (christmas time
again)
tv's broke, your phone's off the hook, the faucet drips
drip, drip, drip, the fog'll never lift
where is the sun? there used be a sun
-Too Much Joy
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 15
From: Gert Bettens <Gert.Bettens@********.EXPRESSEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:05:15 +0100
But... but... but... I've alway's thought that mystic is spelled
mystic and magic is spelled magic and that mystick and magick only is
some german-bad-translation of the real thing... Can someone bring me
UTD? (No, no, no! Not THC! UTD, Up To Date =)

"...silence makes more noise than thunder..."
Message no. 16
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:42:16 -0500
Denzil Kruse d.kruse@****.com wrote:

>Okay, that makes sense. I am just thrown off by the fact that a hermetic circle
>doesn't cost any money in materials. Everything a hermetic does seems to cost
>money. I guess he/she/it(!) gets a break here. Or should it be 1000
>nuyen/force?

No, its free. It's what you paint, not what paint you use (disregard my previous
post about the ink being expensive, I looked it up).

>So I how long does a hermetic circle take to construct? How big is it?
> What are the limitations? I would guess it would be the same as the other
>circles. It takes an hour/force to make, it is 1 meter in diameter/force, and the
>mage limited by his magic attribute in force. What kind of library do you need
>to make one? A magic theory or none? (What's a none library?:)

One hour per rating point, 3 meters plus 1 meter per rating point. No limits other
than time and space. You need a library of the same kind for whatever you will
use if for (conjuring for elementals, sorcery for ritual sorceries) Same as other
circles? What other circles are you refering to?

>And once a hermetic circle is completed, whethere it is in use or not, is has an
>astral presence as a barrier. So I guess this would be a cheaper way of
>creating an astral barrier (see Wards) but it covers a smaller area.

Wrong! It has an astral presence ONLY when it is in use. It does have a LINK to
the caster, so it could be used for tracking or ritual sorcery against its maker.

All of the above info is from page 124 of the SRII book.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:35:30 +0100
Denzil Kruse said on 10:53/27 Jan 97...

> What is a hermetic circle? Is that the general name for any kind of
> hermetic circle, as in a summoning cirlce or cirlce used for ritual sorcery?

Yes.

> Under astral barriers, they list a hermetic circle, but how do you make one
> and how much do the materials cost?

SRII page 124 explains how to create hermetic circles. Note that they're
only astral barriers when they're actually being used, unlike medicine
lodges which _always_ form an astral barrier.

> This is how I thought it worked: To summon an air elemental, you buy air
> elemental conjuring materials. Then you use those materials to create an
> air elemental conjuring circle. Then you summon the elemental and the
> circle is spent. It now has no magical value at all, except radiating some
> traces in the astral plane that an air elemantal was recently summoned here.

Not quite. If you buy more air elemental conjuring materials, you can
re-use the circle to summon another air elemental identical to the first.
You can't use the circle for anything else, though.

> So is a hermentic circle an constructed conjuring circle or ritual sorcery
> circle that just has been constructed but no used yet?

Conjuring circles and ritual sorcery circles are both hermetic circles --
HC is a generic name for all of these circles drawn by mages, regardless
of the purpose they're created for.

> A medicine lodge is created and lasts until taken down. What is the mage's
> analog to the medicine lodge?

The hermetic circle.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:35:30 +0100
Gert Bettens said on 22:05/27 Jan 97...

> But... but... but... I've alway's thought that mystic is spelled
> mystic and magic is spelled magic and that mystick and magick only is
> some german-bad-translation of the real thing... Can someone bring me
> UTD? (No, no, no! Not THC! UTD, Up To Date >

White Wolf uses "magick" and "mystick" in Mage to refer to real magic,
as
opposed to simple conjuring tricks (not conjuring as in SR, but conjuring
as in pulling rabbits from hats) or the magic practiced by non-Awakened
mortals. That's probably where the confusion comes from...

Mystik (from the Acme paint) looks to me like a weird way of spelling a
name, so it sells better in the US -- "Toys-R-Us" sort of thing.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:35:30 +0100
Denzil Kruse said on 11:27/27 Jan 97...

> How much do a hermetic circle materials cost?

As much as you want to spend on them. You could make one from rare woods
precisely cut to fit into you floorboards, or draw one with an old tin of
paint and a cheap brush. IMO you could even draw an imaginary circle by
going through the motions without _any_ physical tools handy.

> How long does it take to create?

Its Rating in hours, unless you want to spend longer on it (like with the
wood circle).

> I haven't seen any rules on that. Is it separate from a elemental
> conjuring circle or ritual sorcery circle?

These are entirely identical for purposes of creating them.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 20
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:06:27 -0500
>SRII page 124 explains how to create hermetic circles. Note that they're
>only astral barriers when they're actually being used, unlike medicine
>lodges which _always_ form an astral barrier.

I remember this rule, but I can't find it....where does it say "active" for
hermetic circles?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 21
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:07:51 -0600
It has an astral presence ONLY when it is in use.
It does have a LINK to
> the caster, so it could be used for
tracking or ritual sorcery against its maker.
>
> All of the above info is from page 124 of the SRII book.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
The other thing is they are spell/elemental specific.

They do not have four types (for spells (illusion, detection,etc.))
but they have a specific circle for each specific spell. (size
determines maximum force, but the same spell can be cast at lower force
(i.e. stink force 5 on thursday, stink force 2 on saturday).

Elemental conjuring circles are specific for each type of elemental (i.e.
earth) but are not specific for force (force 5 on friday, force 3 on
sunday). Conjuring materials and ritual sorcery materials ARE by type
(earth, air, etc. and Detection, illusion, etc.) and are expended.

Mages would likely keep the elemental circles around, but the spell
circles would probably be destroyed (unless for healing magic, or
something they felt they would need regularly.)

And the way I've read it, Medicine lodges are constantly active (as
barriers) but ritual sorcery and conjuring circles act as barriers only
while in use(during the spellcasting/conjuring process).
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
Brett Borger said on 12:06/28 Jan 97...

> >SRII page 124 explains how to create hermetic circles. Note that they're
> >only astral barriers when they're actually being used, unlike medicine
> >lodges which _always_ form an astral barrier.
>
> I remember this rule, but I can't find it....where does it say "active" for
> hermetic circles?

Grimoire, page 91, under Astral Security: "A hermetic circle serves as an
effective barrier only when in use."

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Message no. 23
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Hermetic Circles
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:25:08 -0500
SH>This is how I thought it worked: To summon an air elemental, you buy air
SH>elemental conjuring materials. Then you use those materials to create an
SH>air elemental conjuring circle. Then you summon the elemental and the
SH>circle is spent. It now has no magical value at all, except radiating some
SH>traces in the astral plane that an air elemantal was recently summoned here.

no, the circle can be used again and again for the same ritual.
Some materials are spent, definetly, though. you still have to pay for
elemental conjuring materials again. A hermetic circle counts as a
magical barrier so long as it is presently being used for magic.
Medicine lodges are always a magical barrier, however.

SH>So is a hermentic circle an constructed conjuring circle or ritual sorcery
SH>circle that just has been constructed but no used yet?

It's any one of these circles, used or not. Circles have to be very
specific in their function, as well.

SH>A medicine lodge is created and lasts until taken down. What is the mage's
SH>analog to the medicine lodge?

The medicine lodge is analagous to both circles and libraries. The
shaman needs it to learn new spells and I believe it is needed in
ritual sorcery but I'm probably wrong.
-cyberspunk
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Message no. 24
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:39:02 -0500
SH>The circles are purpose specifics....i.e. [:)] there are summoning circles
SH>(4 types), ritual sorcery circles, and etc.. And you can't use one for
SH>the other purpose.

A ritual sorcery circle isn't a generic thing either. Each one is very
specific, and will vary from spell to spell, force of spell, purpose of
spell, and number of members in the team.
and no i dont think thats an official rule.
eh!
-cyberpusnk
or whoever
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Message no. 25
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:47:08 -0500
SH>And once a hermetic circle is completed, whethere it is in use or not, is
SH>has an astral presence as a barrier. So I guess this would be a cheaper way
SH>of creating an astral barrier (see Wards) but it covers a smaller area.

nonono. he has to be using it for it to be effective.
-cyberspunk
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Message no. 26
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:01:57 -0500
[This was sent to my personal e-mail box, so I am forwarding it along
with my reply to the list.]


Arno R. Lehmann wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:49:06 -0500, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> <snip>

> >It doesn't make much
> >sense to have all hermetic circles work equally well for all
> >Hermetics...it's simple, but not realistic.

> Oh, here I disagree. I understood that hermetic magic is learnt like,
> say, any actual RL science (perhaps rather an engineering science).
> Then a hermetic should be able to use the equipment of another
> equally educated hermetic ... Just like a decker can use
> another deckers deck or programm.

Hermetic magic may be a science, but it has a lot of room for style.
IMO, one mage's hermetic circle will look a bit different than
another's. Why? Because there are a bazillion different symbols a mage
can use to inscribe a circle, but they choose what works best for them.
Also, with magical signatures and all, it's like walking into someone
else's apartment and playing house...it's just not home.

An example:

Eli the Enochian loves to use the language of angels as symbolism in his
rituals. He takes great care in making sure everything magical he
creates incorporates this language. Now, Henry the Hermetic has no such
style. In fact, he has spent his time studying other magical languages
besides Enochian. He has magical theory, so he can figure out that the
symbols are Enochian, but can't identify the purpose of each symbol.

Henry can still recognize the fact that the circle in front of him is
for summoning Fire Elementals, and can tell by it's size what force it
can handle maximum. However, since many of the symbols used to create
the circle are foreign, he has a difficult time getting in synch with
the construct. After all, it's missing many of the symbols he usually
incorporates into his own Hermetic circles....thus, he can still utilize
the circle to summon Fire Elementals, but it's harder for him to do.

See, this is all opinion. I am in no way stating that this comes from
the rules. However, it adds flavor to the Hermetics (they aren't all
the same with the same style), and allows them some room for
creativity. This is similar to having different Totems for Shamans.
Thus, the rules I created for personalized hermetic circles allow for
the game mechanics of such flexibility.

It's all just opinion, but I think it's a grave injustice to state that
all Hermetics practice magic exactly the same way.

> -- Arno

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 27
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Hermetic Circles -Reply
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:34:42 -0500
SH>If it ever became an issue, I'd probably rule that any hermetic mage could
SH>"activate" any hermetic circle he was within a few meters of (inside or
out)
SH>keep it up as an astral barrier for as long as he concentrated on it (I'd tr
SH>a sustained spell w/ +2 to TNs except conjuring).

SH>BTW: While the rules don't explicitly state this, I believe the way it works
SH>the mage stands outside the circle, powers it up, summons the spirit to appe
SH>INSIDE the circle. The spirit now can't escape, so the mage has a bit of ti
SH>bargain for services. Once thats done, the circle can be dropped.

I read it like this: the astral barrier is created because of the amount
of power being pulled into the circle. Someone out for a jog in astral
space might bloody his nose on it because he runs into a lot of power,
and it effectively makes a wall. But the mage has to be doing something
to create the barrier. He has to spend time preparing a ritual's order
of events, prepare and place needed materials, and so forth and so on.
Definetly can't activate it as he pleases.
-cyberspunk
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Message no. 28
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic Circles
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:55:06 EST
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:39:02 -0500 Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
writes:
>SH>The circles are purpose specifics....i.e. [:)] there are summoning
>circles
>SH>(4 types), ritual sorcery circles, and etc.. And you can't use one
>for
>SH>the other purpose.
>
>A ritual sorcery circle isn't a generic thing either. Each one is
>very
>specific, and will vary from spell to spell, force of spell, purpose
>of
>spell, and number of members in the team.
>and no i dont think thats an official rule.
>eh!
Yeah, as I recall, they aren't required to specific to the number of
members in the ritual team, but they are different from spell to spell,
force to force. (If I'm wrong, no flames please:)

Canthros
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