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Message no. 1
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:34:12 -0800
A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?) This suggests some
interesting possibilities for hollow teeth, and so on. (Of course, it also
suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 2
From: MENARD Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:13:17 -0400
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Max Rible wrote:

> A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
> by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
> a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?) This suggests some
> interesting possibilities for hollow teeth, and so on. (Of course, it also
> suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
> injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)

This also opens up the possibility that spell locks, once completely
surrounded by matter, "loose" contact with astral space, thus becoming
inactive, pr worse.

I think the "hide your locks in yourself" thread came
here around 6 months ago. You might want to check out the archives.


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--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
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Message no. 3
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:26:24 +0100
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Max Rible wrote:

> A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
> by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
> a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?)
Well if a spell lock is surrounded by living matter while it is
deactivated, when the spell tries to manifest out from it it would have to
go 'through' the living aura -possible???

What would happen if teh living matter was placed around the lock when the
spell lock was active is a question to be answered. Maybe it will work but
the spell lock could no longer be deactivated without losing the spell
(unable to retreat back into the lock through living material).

All this ambiguity allows the GMs to rule on this at their own discretion
and give an in game reasoning beyond the 'game balance' argument :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 4
From: "Robert Pendergrast (Tom)" <3011_3@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:19:48 -0700
> A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
> by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
> a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?)

The way my group and I always explained the reason behind grounding into
a spell lock this way; That you were tossing spell energy *through* the
locked spell, and that 'guided', if you will, the the spell to the focus, at
which point it grounded out.

So it wouldn't matter is the focus was surrounded by living matter, it
would still ground through normally.

-Tom-
Message no. 5
From: "Robert Pendergrast (Tom)" <3011_3@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:44:35 -0700
>> A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
>> by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
>> a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?) This suggests some
>> interesting possibilities for hollow teeth, and so on. (Of course, it also
>> suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
>> injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)

> This also opens up the possibility that spell locks, once completely
> surrounded by matter, "loose" contact with astral space, thus becoming
> inactive, pr worse.

> I think the "hide your locks in yourself" thread came
> here around 6 months ago. You might want to check out the archives.

Yeah.. we had something like that a while back... we had one thread
about tattoos as foci and hollowed teeth etc...


---Tom---
Message no. 6
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:37:12 -0700
> > A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is
surrounded
> > by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you
attack
> > a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?)
>
> The way my group and I always explained the reason behind grounding into
> a spell lock this way; That you were tossing spell energy *through* the
> locked spell, and that 'guided', if you will, the the spell to the focus,
at
> which point it grounded out.
>
> So it wouldn't matter is the focus was surrounded by living
matter, it
> would still ground through normally.

True, afterall spell casting is described as tuning the astral energies to
your target's aura.

SPOILERS
@
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Also, in the first Harelquin campaign, there is a foci implanted in Jane
Foster's thigh that Harlequin attempts to ground through back to the foci's
originator...


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 7
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 04:03:03 -0700
MENARD Steve wrote:
> > suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
> > injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)
>

I would be a little more worried about getting a spell grounded through it..

> This also opens up the possibility that spell locks, once completely
> surrounded by matter, "loose" contact with astral space, thus becoming
> inactive, pr worse.
>

I think it is more like radio waves..The lock is like a receiver that focuses
the astral energy in a certain way much like a radio is tuned to a certain
freq..And even though your radio is in your house you still pick up radio
stations..

> I think the "hide your locks in yourself" thread came
> here around 6 months ago. You might want to check out the archives.
>

It has come and gone any number of times for years..But what gets me is it
always goes in this direction..why not just swallow it..or hide it in a
tooth..and whatnot..
How about simply putting it on a chain around your neck and but it under your
shirt?? the non-living material should hide it fairly well..although when
grounded through while it is active [since the spell is a living thing in
astral space and originates fron the lock] it will be a bit harder to toss it
away from you..But there have to be sacrifices...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 8
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:36:44 GMT
Max Rible writes

> A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
> by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
> a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?) This suggests some
> interesting possibilities for hollow teeth, and so on. (Of course, it also
> suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
> injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)
> --
Such things have been discussed before.
Tattoo locks etc.

I say that locks astral images and the spell they sustain appear on
the outside of your aura. Ie they are visible outside anything you
are wearing (same as the solution to targeting folks in sealed
military armour).

Therefore covering the lock with a worn living patch won't help, its
still on your aura and visible.

Covering yourself completely however with a tarpalin etc (over you so
you cannot see out as opposed to worn, the definition has to be 'can
you see out' any other distinction to vauge) tou are not visible,
wether the cover is alive or not does not matter, they cannot see
you, your aura and therefore cannot see the lock.

Yes this does mean sleeping totally under the covers makes you immune
to nasties at night, because they cannot see you from above and
cannot come in with you because your auras in the way, however you
won't be in very good condition the next day, and your vulnerability
to 'Mr fire elemental indulge yourself, that (pointing at bed) looks
nicely flamable' is just a little high :)

Mark
Message no. 9
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:02:43 +0100
On Mon, 21 Oct 1996, Loki wrote:

> > So it wouldn't matter is the focus was surrounded by living matter, it
> > would still ground through normally.
>
> True, afterall spell casting is described as tuning the astral energies to
> your target's aura.
>
> SPOILERS
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> Also, in the first Harelquin campaign, there is a foci implanted in Jane
> Foster's thigh that Harlequin attempts to ground through back to the foci's
> originator...

I may be wrong but I actually thought he was using teh spell lock as a
link for ritual sorcery. Grounding the spell through teh lock would just
have made the spell go off inside Frosty's thigh, rather than at Ehran.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 10
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:52:25 +0100
|
|A horrible notion occurred to me this weekend: if a spell lock is surrounded
|by living matter, it can't be touched from astral space. (Or can you attack
|a spell lock by attacking the spell it's holding up?) This suggests some
|interesting possibilities for hollow teeth, and so on. (Of course, it also
|suggests that people who get captured may find themselves seriously
|injured as the locks are ripped out by their captors...)

This has actually been done.
In Harlequin, Ehran has woven a spell-lock into the bone of his daughters
leg, so that he always knows where she is.....

NOTE: Spell locks are still volnerable. And the person with it would be more
so, because an astral mage would be able to ground the spell through it and
cause SERIOUS damage.
(Remember that the thread from the spell-lock connects the mage with the
subject, and it's the thread that an astral mage grounds through....).

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
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|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
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Message no. 11
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@**.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:04:03 +0100
Spoiler space, even though I doubt it's really neccesary....























|> Also, in the first Harelquin campaign, there is a foci implanted in Jane
|> Foster's thigh that Harlequin attempts to ground through back to the foci's
|> originator...
|
|I may be wrong but I actually thought he was using teh spell lock as a
|link for ritual sorcery. Grounding the spell through teh lock would just
|have made the spell go off inside Frosty's thigh, rather than at Ehran.

Well.... She did suffer a shattered ankle from the backwash.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
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Message no. 12
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 08:41:31 GMT
David Buehrer writes

[back to the list then]
[hence size as some of these posts wern't list the first time]

> Subject: Re: Hiding spell locks in living matter

> Mark Steedman wrote:
> |
> |you, David Buehrer write
> |>
> |> But a person's aura extends out a little ways. This is
> |> what allows mages to hit people that are wearing full body
> |> armor. So if a person covers up with a tarp (or similarly
> |> thin material) their aura will extend beyond the tarp,
> |> which with your system includes the lock, so the lock can
> |> be ground through.
> |>
> |So if you lean on a thin (i mean thin) dividing wall, your aura leaks
> |through it so i can manabolt you, but you cannot see me to shoot me.
> |I think not i'm affraid.
> |The difference i was aiming for is between 'things you wear' which
> |your aura extends through and 'things you hide behind/under' which it
> |does not.
> |The tarpalin, assuming it covers you completely comes in the latter
> |category in my opinion.
>
> [snip: if you can see me, I can see you]
>
> Okay. I agree. A further arguement could be that a mage
> requires a "full" aura for a target. If a target is
> wearing cloths then the target's aura extends beyond
> everything the target is wearing and the mage can see the
> target's full aura. Even if the target is standing behind
> a low wall (1/2 cover) the mage has a "full" view of that
> part. If the target is behind a thin wall or under a tarp
> then parts of his aura peek through, but they're surface
> contact points. I.e., no depth, so not enough to target
> with a spell.
>
> I do feel that a person's aura bleeds through thin
> coverings, even if the view (normal vision) is completely
> blocked. In the case of a person leaning up against a very
> thin wall I would rule that a mage, astraly percieving, on
> the other side of the wall would be able to tell that
> there's something living on the other side of the wall.
> But, due to the lack of a cohesive aura it might be a plant
> for all the mage knows.
>
This would seem fair enough, though i hadn't bothered about it. FASA
do actually state that in the case of a person hiding 'just' around a
corner that you can see the part of their aura leaking round but
cannot target them. You probably should be able to tell (perception
test) the difference between plant and animal auras by this method
but then maybe not.

> BTW, why did you take this to private email? Is this an
> old, dead, subject? Just curious. :)
>
Mostly because when i hit 'reply' i got your mail address not the
list one for some reason, could be your mailer, could be i changed my
standard reply to and forgot to change it back, too easy done
replying at speed, so i've just posted the lot back to the list now
we seem to have agreed , as it happens on a combination of ideas :)

> -David
Mark

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