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Message no. 1
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:12:18 +0100
Timothy Little said on 30 Jan 96...

> I keep driving my GM nuts with weirdo spell ideas like One-Way Mirror,
> Fabricate and Redirect Energy. I was going to suggest a One-Way Barrier,
> then realised that if air can get in but can't get out, some rather big
> problems start to present themselves...

I have designed a one-way barrier spell, and it's no problem -- gases can
go through a barrier easily because all the molecules are so far away from
each other.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't call it a movement -- there's other ways of saying it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(----) y?
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Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:33:14 +1100 (EST)
>I have designed a one-way barrier spell, and it's no problem -- gases can
>go through a barrier easily because all the molecules are so far away from
>each other.

Gurth, I hate to do this... but isn't the idea of a one-way barrier
rather munchkinous? I mean, the power of the Barrier spell is balanced
largely by the fact that it inconviences the caster, also.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 3
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:25:29 +1100
>Amother way of enhancing the spell learning process is through the help of
>an elemental/astral quest.
>Why not go on an astral quest for some of the knowledge required for the
>spell (adding to the number of successes), and then summon an elemental to
>aid you even more......?

If you've got a reasonable Magical Theory, it turns out to be worthwhile
doing an Astral Quest only for the Deadly drain spells. Once your target
number is 2 (it nearly always is), most of your dice will turn up successes
and a few extra won't reduce the time by much. Add the time taken to do the
quest and only the most powerful spells benefit.

Elementals are definitely worthwhile though. Force 4 is probably about the
best trade-off between time, money, and number of services.

--
Tim Little
Message no. 4
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:52 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 31 Jan 96...

> Gurth, I hate to do this... but isn't the idea of a one-way barrier
> rather munchkinous? I mean, the power of the Barrier spell is balanced
> largely by the fact that it inconviences the caster, also.

It's never been used in a game, I think. No wait a sec, I did use it once,
a few years ago. I never thought about it being munchkinous, really,
neither did the GM, but if you think it is, by all means don't allow it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't call it a movement -- there's other ways of saying it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(----) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 5
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:18:08 GMT
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> > > My character's highest spell is a Force 7. The main sticking point in this
> > > case is the inability to design any spell with a Force greater than your
> > > Magical Theory skill. I've got better things to do with Karma than spend
17

> Can anyone confirm this rule, I've just had a quick scan of Page 114 and
> 115 and can't see it. If this is the case it severely limits spell design.
>
That page reference is from memory and not very accurate, the rules
somewhere in those 8 odd pages on the working of spells, like i said
very well hidden! However it does exist.

Mark
Message no. 6
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:35:08 +1100
>Can't air permeate Barrier spells anyway? If you purposely wanted it to
>block air as well you'd have to make some changes ie up the drain in some
>manner.

You're right, it does. I had to design a new version of the spell for which
it doesn't. My GM accepted it with no increase to Drain Code, since
"everything but air" isn't specific enough for the original spell to have
qualified for the Restricted Target modifier. I also made it completely
transparent (removing the Set General Target Number +1 modifier), but the GM
countered with Simple Bonus Game Effect (that the barrier is no longer
obvious) for no change in Drain Code.

Now it's useful against gases too, and is more 'logical'. Just don't stay
in it too long or you'll run out of air. Unless you also have the Purify
spell 8^]


--
Tim Little
Message no. 7
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:35:06 +1100
[... No spells may be designed with higher Force than the designer's Magical
Theory ...]

>Can anyone confirm this rule, I've just had a quick scan of Page 114 and
>115 and can't see it. If this is the case it severely limits spell design.

I kept missing it 2 times out of 3 I tried to find it also. Probably
because it's actually on page 118 in a 1-paragraph section headed "Force",
instead of in the Spell Formulas rules on p. 114-115.

--
Tim Little
Message no. 8
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:34:58 +1100
>|I keep driving my GM nuts with weirdo spell ideas like One-Way Mirror,
>|Fabricate and Redirect Energy. I was going to suggest a One-Way Barrier,
>|then realised that if air can get in but can't get out, some rather big
>|problems start to present themselves...
>
>Not if you attune the spell.
>You could quite easily make it air exempt. In the same way you can block
>bullets only, you could weave air permeability into the spell design......

On the other hand, a spell that sucks all the nearby air into the interior
of the dome at sonic speeds with Mega pressure building up inside could be
quite useful. Imagine what would happen when you dropped the spell! 8^]
(Be a long distance away)


I've done a quick look at the energies involved in various spells, and apart
from mass-changing spells like Shapechange, the highest-energy published
spell is Freeze Water. If you get a high-powered magician with ally and/or
power focus to cast the spell, dropping dice for increased radius, you can
get say a 24 meter radius. Getting just 1 success on this spell (which has
only +1S drain and TN#4) instantly removes the heat energy equivalent of 4
kilotons of TNT from the water in the target area. Just imagine what you
could do with a spell that instantly *adds* 4 kilotons of heat energy!
(Better cast it through a telescope)


--
Tim Little
Message no. 9
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:27:58 +0000 (GMT)
|
|>|I keep driving my GM nuts with weirdo spell ideas like One-Way Mirror,
|>|Fabricate and Redirect Energy. I was going to suggest a One-Way Barrier,
|>|then realised that if air can get in but can't get out, some rather big
|>|problems start to present themselves...
|>
|>Not if you attune the spell.
|>You could quite easily make it air exempt. In the same way you can block
|>bullets only, you could weave air permeability into the spell design......
|
|On the other hand, a spell that sucks all the nearby air into the interior
|of the dome at sonic speeds with Mega pressure building up inside could be
|quite useful. Imagine what would happen when you dropped the spell! 8^]
|(Be a long distance away)
|
|
|I've done a quick look at the energies involved in various spells, and apart
|from mass-changing spells like Shapechange, the highest-energy published
|spell is Freeze Water. If you get a high-powered magician with ally and/or
|power focus to cast the spell, dropping dice for increased radius, you can
|get say a 24 meter radius. Getting just 1 success on this spell (which has
|only +1S drain and TN#4) instantly removes the heat energy equivalent of 4
|kilotons of TNT from the water in the target area. Just imagine what you
|could do with a spell that instantly *adds* 4 kilotons of heat energy!
|(Better cast it through a telescope)

Or even better, removed the heat energy and stored it in a force sphere...
You could make the energy portable and release it at will........

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:31:04 GMT
> From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)

> [... No spells may be designed with higher Force than the designer's Magical
> Theory ...]
>
> >Can anyone confirm this rule, I've just had a quick scan of Page 114 and
> >115 and can't see it. If this is the case it severely limits spell design.
>
> I kept missing it 2 times out of 3 I tried to find it also. Probably
> because it's actually on page 118 in a 1-paragraph section headed "Force",
> instead of in the Spell Formulas rules on p. 114-115.
>
Thanks, actually without the book for reference i would have reconned
at +-5 pages from my origonal guess as possible.

Mark
Message no. 11
From: cobaltblue@********.net
Subject: Re: High-power spells (was: Ideas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 17:16:02 PST
On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:18:08 GMT Mark Steedman wrote:
>> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
>> > > My character's highest spell is a Force 7. The main sticking point in
this
>> > > case is the inability to design any spell with a Force greater than
your
>> > > Magical Theory skill. I've got better things to do with Karma than
spend 17
>
>> Can anyone confirm this rule, I've just had a quick scan of Page 114 and
>> 115 and can't see it. If this is the case it severely limits spell design.
>>
>That page reference is from memory and not very accurate, the rules
>somewhere in those 8 odd pages on the working of spells, like i said
>very well hidden! However it does exist.
>
>Mark
>

Mark, it's my understanding that the force of a spell cannot be greater than your magic
rating (i.e., for a natural character, a six). However, through initiation you can raise
your magic rating. Check the Grimoire, pg. 18.

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