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Message no. 1
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:04:55 -0500
Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

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Message no. 2
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:36:46 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 10:19:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

<< Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?
>>


I always wondered why the bugs and Ghouls didn't form mutual benefit pacts.
They were both hunted and hated by humanity, and most of the ghouls in the CZ
were militaristic in their hatred of "norms" (here metas and humans).
The fact that Ghouls are dual and could fight back against the bugs
more effectively would make such partnerships not as risky as it might first
appear.




Twist
Message no. 3
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:30:02 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Twist0059@***.com."
] I always wondered why the bugs and Ghouls didn't form mutual benefit
pacts.
] They were both hunted and hated by humanity, and most of the ghouls
in the CZ
] were militaristic in their hatred of "norms" (here metas and humans).
] The fact that Ghouls are dual and could fight back against the bugs
] more effectively would make such partnerships not as risky as it
might first
] appear.

How about, "because the insect spirits are xenophobic, alien beings
who would shred a ghoul just as soon as they'd dice a human?" Allying
with the spirits (if the bugs could get their animalistic little heads
around that concept) would be suicide, and very short-sighted. It
would also make the ghouls that much more hated, which goes against
what their leaders want, acceptance and equality.
Never would happen, on a large scale. On a smaller scale (i.e. a
tiny group of ghouls), who knows.

-Murder of One
Message no. 4
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:51:53 -0700
> Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
> relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

I noticed that these two were in MitS
I didn't see them in second edition. And I have an 8 year gap in my
familiarity of Shadowrun.
Did they appear in Grimoire or Awakenings or what MitS their first
appearance.

I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried FASA had
goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.

They still need to work on owl, but at least they say it can be
ominous... a bit of an understatement... but at least it's no longer
fully the owl from the 'Hundred Acre Wood' of Pooh Bear... :)
Message no. 5
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:26:30 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Arcady."
] I noticed that these two were in MitS
] I didn't see them in second edition. And I have an 8 year gap in my
] familiarity of Shadowrun.
] Did they appear in Grimoire or Awakenings or what MitS their first
] appearance.

Spider was in Bug City (a 2nd Ed. book).

-Murder of One
Message no. 6
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:44:39 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 1:31:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

<< How about, "because the insect spirits are xenophobic, alien beings
who would shred a ghoul just as soon as they'd dice a human?" Allying
with the spirits (if the bugs could get their animalistic little heads
around that concept) would be suicide, and very short-sighted. It
would also make the ghouls that much more hated, which goes against
what their leaders want, acceptance and equality.
Never would happen, on a large scale. On a smaller scale (i.e. a
tiny group of ghouls), who knows.

-Murder of One >>


I thought the insect spirits were supposed to be rather clever. Afterall,
they did form a kind of working relationship with Dirk Montgomery to stop the
Enemy, they created an impressive fraud in the UB that helped them invest
millions of victims, and there is the business of their recent (and some
still ongoing) political motivations.




Twist
Message no. 7
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:52:37 -0700
>I thought the insect spirits were supposed to be rather clever. Afterall,
>they did form a kind of working relationship with Dirk Montgomery to stop the
>Enemy, they created an impressive fraud in the UB that helped them invest
>millions of victims, and there is the business of their recent (and some
>still ongoing) political motivations.
>
I'd say alien is a good term to describe them, the workers might be dumb as
posts in many ways, but the queens aren't stupid i think.

They have their own, alien goals, which might seem strange and to make no
snese but to them it makes perfect sense.

--Lomion
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:04:13 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/1999 9:19:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

> Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
> relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

Spider yes (long story there), Mantid no....

-K
Message no. 9
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:44:46 -0500
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:51:53 -0700 Arcady <arcady@***.net> writes:
>> Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
>> relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

>I noticed that these two were in MitS
>I didn't see them in second edition. And I have an 8 year gap in my
>familiarity of Shadowrun.
>Did they appear in Grimoire or Awakenings or what MitS their first
>appearance.

If I recall correctly, Mantid first appeared in Grimoire, while Spider
first appeared in Bug City. Scorpion, FYI, first appeared in the
Californa Free State sourcebook.

>I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried FASA had
>goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.

Spider isn't a bug :P~

>They still need to work on owl, but at least they say it can be
>ominous... a bit of an understatement... but at least it's no longer
>fully the owl from the 'Hundred Acre Wood' of Pooh Bear... :)

???

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 10
From: Meowmix chrisjohn@**********.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:05:49 -0400
About the spider and mantid shamans from ghouls...

Whenever I deal with ghouls, I keep in mind that, oh, 90% are ravening
lunatics turned cannibal killers. So to say any sort of magical aptitude
with such a hard edge as Spider and Mantid shamans is common would
mean trouble for runners.

Maybe it's just me, but I see most ghoul shamans as being Rat or Jackal
or something else rather selfish. Sure, some ghouls are being all nicey
friendly like, but most couldn't give a rat's butt (no pun intended) about
metahumanity.



Meowmix
"When life gives you a blend of chicken, liver, and
spices, make meat flavored kitty treats."
Message no. 11
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:35:02 -0700
> >I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried FASA had
> >goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.
>
> Spider isn't a bug :P~

Well true. But it's similarly identified in the 'common mind'.

> >They still need to work on owl, but at least they say it can be
> >ominous... a bit of an understatement... but at least it's no longer
> >fully the owl from the 'Hundred Acre Wood' of Pooh Bear... :)
>
> ???

At least among the Cherokee and I suspect quite a few other north
american native nations Owls are an evil omen. About the only thing
close to a 'Toxic totem' that I know of in real world shamanism.
To see an owl means someone you know will die.
Message no. 12
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:00:05 CST
>Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
>relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

Why?? I would have thought totems like Wolf (for the extremist warrior
type), Dog (protect your fellow ghouls) and Coyote (for tricking the norms)
would be more appropriate (with toxicity determined by how little they cared
about how they got their (meta)human flesh).

>
>--
>D. Ghost
>(aka Pixel)
>"Vampires have an oral fixation"

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 13
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:01:50 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Twist0059@***.com."
] I thought the insect spirits were supposed to be rather clever. Afterall,
] they did form a kind of working relationship with Dirk Montgomery to
stop the
] Enemy, they created an impressive fraud in the UB that helped them invest
] millions of victims, and there is the business of their recent (and some
] still ongoing) political motivations.

Well, that's a darn good point. Let's say then, that the insects
would ally with the ghouls if they could, but the ghouls wouldn't ally
with the insects.
BTW, what novel's Dirk Montgomery from?

-Murder of One
Message no. 14
From: Ray and Tamara macey@***.com.au
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:20:15 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: <dghost@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>


> If I recall correctly, Mantid first appeared in Grimoire, while Spider
> first appeared in Bug City. Scorpion, FYI, first appeared in the
> Californa Free State sourcebook.

I don't know. Those half bug things and grandma and all that in the first
trilogy seemed awfully like Spider to me.

NightRain.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
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| It will only encourage them. |
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| email:nightrain@***.com.au |
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Message no. 15
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:30:50 CST
>I thought the insect spirits were supposed to be rather clever. Afterall,
>they did form a kind of working relationship with Dirk Montgomery to stop
>the
>Enemy, they created an impressive fraud in the UB that helped them invest
>millions of victims, and there is the business of their recent (and some
>still ongoing) political motivations.

Actually, they didn't work with Montgomery, they only convinced him to use
his influence to stop the Enemy. But I do agree that bugs are clever. Look
at 2XS, the bugs had more or less co-opted a Yamatetsu subsidiary, started a
new mindbender to weed out the "unworthy" and use the 2xs tech. to gain some
control over Lone Star and KONG. And that was just a hive of Wasp spirits.
Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk). That speaks to a lot of
intelligence.

>Twist

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 16
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:15:49 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 6:35:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arcady@***.net
writes:

<< > >I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried FASA had
> >goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.
>
> Spider isn't a bug :P~

Well true. But it's similarly identified in the 'common mind'. >>


Spider was considered an insect totem early on, back in the days of Total
Eclipse. No stats for it was ever given, though.









Twist
Message no. 17
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:18:18 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 7:31:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
knight_errant30@*******.com writes:

<< And that was just a hive of Wasp spirits.
Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk). That speaks to a lot of
intelligence.

>Twist

Geoff Haacke >>


Yeats was a Wasp, part of the Secret Hive. The other bugs, beside Mantids,
seem to have dropped out of favor.








Twist
Message no. 18
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:40 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 7:03:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
iscottw@*****.nb.ca writes:

<< Well, that's a darn good point. Let's say then, that the insects
would ally with the ghouls if they could, but the ghouls wouldn't ally
with the insects.
BTW, what novel's Dirk Montgomery from?

-Murder of One >>


Dirk was in two different novels. He fought bugs along side Argent and the
Wrecking Crew in 2XS, and he fought back the Enemy beside Harlequin (kinda)
in Hawaii in House of the Sun (this is the one in which the bugs use
Montgomery to stop the Horrors that would feed upon them, again displaying
intelligence by using Dirk's sister as an emotional leverage against him).






Twist
Message no. 19
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:28:05 +1000
> << > >I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried FASA
had
> > >goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.
> >
> > Spider isn't a bug :P~
>
> Well true. But it's similarly identified in the 'common mind'. >>
>
>
> Spider was considered an insect totem early on, back in the days of Total
> Eclipse. No stats for it was ever given, though.

Spider is a Bug... it's just not an insect. The colloqiual definition of bug
includes arachnids.

Stats for Spider can be found in the Bug City sourcebook.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 20
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:30:06 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 8:28:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
robert.watkins@******.com writes:

<< > Spider was considered an insect totem early on, back in the days of Total
> Eclipse. No stats for it was ever given, though.

Spider is a Bug... it's just not an insect. The colloqiual definition of bug
includes arachnids.

Stats for Spider can be found in the Bug City sourcebook.
>>


I meant as an Insect Totem.








Twist
Message no. 21
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:20:38 -0500
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:00:05 CST Geoffrey Haacke
<knight_errant30@*******.com> writes:
>>Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
>>relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?

>Why??
<SNIP>

Because of the whole female-consumes-male-after-mating thing ... ya know?
(Notice I said shamanESSes [ie, female]. :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 22
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:48:02 -0500
On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:20:15 +1000 "Ray and Tamara" <macey@***.com.au>
writes:
>From: <dghost@****.com>
>> If I recall correctly, Mantid first appeared in Grimoire, while Spider
>> first appeared in Bug City. Scorpion, FYI, first appeared in the
>> Californa Free State sourcebook.

>I don't know. Those half bug things and grandma and all that in the
first
>trilogy seemed awfully like Spider to me.

Hunh? What Trilogy? I think the concept of spider changed somewhere. I
think I remember someone saying that originally, spider was an insect
totem. As of Bug City, it was a regular totem.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 23
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:17:35 -0500
On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:28:05 +1000 "Robert Watkins"
<robert.watkins@******.com> writes:
<SNIP>
>Spider is a Bug... it's just not an insect. The colloqiual definition of
bug
>includes arachnids.

Definition of Bug: Any of an order (Hemiptera) or sub-order (Heteroptera)
of terrestrial or aquatic insects with ... yada yada ... I can quote the
whole thing if you want. It's from New Illustrated Webster's Dictionary.
Now how can spiders be bugs if they are Order Araneae. Insects and
spiders are both Phylum Arthopoda but are then split off into Class
Insecta and Class Arachnida, respectively. If you want to say that
spiders are bugs too because they are Phylum Arthopoda, then get ready to
include, crabs, lobsters, shrimps, etc. as "bugs". Yes, spiders are
sometimes referred to as bugs, but they are NOT bugs and neither are
centipedes or millipedes. :)

Have a nice day. :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 24
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:50:46 +1000
DGhost writes:
> Definition of Bug: Any of an order (Hemiptera) or sub-order (Heteroptera)
> of terrestrial or aquatic insects with ... yada yada ... I can quote the
> whole thing if you want. It's from New Illustrated Webster's Dictionary.
> Now how can spiders be bugs if they are Order Araneae. Insects and
> spiders are both Phylum Arthopoda but are then split off into Class
> Insecta and Class Arachnida, respectively. If you want to say that
> spiders are bugs too because they are Phylum Arthopoda, then get ready to
> include, crabs, lobsters, shrimps, etc. as "bugs". Yes, spiders are
> sometimes referred to as bugs, but they are NOT bugs and neither are
> centipedes or millipedes. :)

With all due respect to Webster's... that's a load of crap. ;)

"Bug" is a colloquial word. The colloquial usage of that word, as it applies
to animals, covers the full-range of creepy-crawlies, including insects,
arachnids, millipedes, and centipedes. It is not a scientific definition
based on the order of species, and if Webster has it as such, then the
editors of that esteemed dictionary should go back to grammar school (God
knows that they can't spell... ;)

In addition, Pix... the only species actually KNOWN as a bug is a variety of
lobster.

"sometimes referred to as...", Pix, that's why it's a colloquial definition.
:)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 25
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:00:29 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 9:36:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> Hunh? What Trilogy? I think the concept of spider changed somewhere. I
> think I remember someone saying that originally, spider was an insect
> totem. As of Bug City, it was a regular totem.
>
Secrets of Power the very first
the spider mentioned therein was more of a powerful spirit, thoguh I remember
someone referring to it as a totem.
Message no. 26
From: Logan Graves logan1@*****.intercom.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:07:59 -0400
In our last episode, dghost@****.com wrote:
>
> <SNIP *Excellent* Definition of Bug>
> If you want to say that spiders are bugs too because they are Phylum
> Arthopoda, then get ready to include, crabs, lobsters, shrimps, etc. as
> "bugs". Yes, spiders are sometimes referred to as bugs, but they are NOT
> bugs and neither are centipedes or millipedes. :)

Thanks Pixel,
you save me the trouble of posting a similar message ;-)

--Fenris (who couldn't've said it better)
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) MitS, pg.158
Message no. 27
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:03:38 -0500
Possible spoilers for some things























> Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
> mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk).

PENCHYK'S A BUG?!

When the hell did *this* happen? (I've gotta start reading the novels, I
guess....)

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 28
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:20:03 +1000
Patrick Goodman writes:
> Possible spoilers for some things
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
> > mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk).
>
> PENCHYK'S A BUG?!
>
> When the hell did *this* happen? (I've gotta start reading the novels, I
> guess....)

No, you need to read the modules. It's described in Super Tuesday.

Yeats is described in "Shadows of the Underworld"

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 29
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
> Possible spoilers for some things
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential
> candidate (Yeats) while the
> > mantids did the same to his running mate
> (Penchyk).
>
> PENCHYK'S A BUG?!
>
> When the hell did *this* happen? (I've gotta start reading the
novels, I guess....)
> (>) Texas 2-Step

No, Penchyk is NOT a bug - IIRC.

The latest data on Anne Penchyk indicates that, while she's WORKING
with the Mantids, she ISN'T a bug. Something about the bugs preferring
her to be fully metahuman, as she'll be in the public eye, I believe.
She's their 'agent on the inside'. That's from Shadows of the
Underworld and Super Tuesday and I believe that's the latest data on
the subject.

But that brings to mind a question I've wanted to ask for a while. As I
recall, Dunk left a rather hefty chunk to Penchyk and her organisation
(the name of which I can't currently remember), along with a rather
cryptic (and ironic?) message. Now, I've always thought that the
message sounded like Dunk MIGHT know about Penchyk working with the
Mantids. What do you guys think?

*Doc' would never become a spider shaman, as his totem would not
approve of him stomping on spiders - or shrieking and running - all the time...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 30
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:23:49 -0500
> No, you need to read the modules. It's described in Super Tuesday.
>
> <SPOILER> is described in "Shadows of the Underworld"

Still filling in holes in the modules collection; I didn't bother with them
for the longest time, and now I'm paying for it. And paying. And paying
some more....

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 31
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:56:36 -0700
> > << > >I was very glad to see Spider's writeup as I'd been worried
FASA had
> > > >goofed and made all 'bugs' evil.
> > >
> > > Spider isn't a bug :P~
> > Well true. But it's similarly identified in the 'common mind'. >>
> >
> > Spider was considered an insect totem early on, back in the days of Total
> > Eclipse. No stats for it was ever given, though.
>
> Spider is a Bug... it's just not an insect. The colloqiual definition of bug
> includes arachnids.
>
> Stats for Spider can be found in the Bug City sourcebook.

I don't know what they said there, but in MitS I was suprised to see
they got it right.

Spider is a native american mother goddess. Grandmother of the world. I
had visions of her myself in my youth. She would save me from a monster
which huanted some of my youthful nightmares. Coming out of the
darkness.
Fairly close to how they put her down in MitS
Message no. 32
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:00:50 +0200
According to Patrick Goodman, at 22:03 on 21 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> Possible spoilers for some things
>
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> > Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
> > mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk).
>
> PENCHYK'S A BUG?!
>
> When the hell did *this* happen? (I've gotta start reading the novels, I
> guess....)

You'd do better to read the adventures :) One of the runs in Super
Tuesday! takes the runners to the CZ, escorting Anne Penchyk and a
reporter into there to find out about Penchyk's brother. Once inside, the
reporter turns out to be a mantid, the brother has long been
"assimilated," and their group wants to turn Penchyk into a mantid as
well, to gain power outside the CZ. The PCs are pretty much powerless to
stop them, but OTOH they probably won't even know it -- they won't get to
see the transformation, but they are needed to get Penchyk back out of the
CZ so she can continue in politics.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Now all of them have gone or changed
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 33
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:48:22 EDT
In a message dated 6/21/99 10:01:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.com
writes:

<< > Hunh? What Trilogy? I think the concept of spider changed somewhere. I
> think I remember someone saying that originally, spider was an insect
> totem. As of Bug City, it was a regular totem.
>
Secrets of Power the very first
the spider mentioned therein was more of a powerful spirit, thoguh I
remember
someone referring to it as a totem. >>


Yes, Secrets of Power was the first, then there was the spirit in Total
Eclipse and the Shaman in the same adventure. In the SoP trilogy, there were
flesh forms and a human was turned into a giant spider, so I'd group that
under insect spirit. In TE, the shaman was portrayed as an evil Insect
Shaman, but I don't recall that any stats were ever given for his powers.







Twist
Message no. 34
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:08:05 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:20 PM 6/21/99 -0500, dghost@****.com wrote:
>>>Anybody else see Mantid and (Black Widow) Spider Shamesses as being
>>>relatively common amongst the Ghoul community?
>
>>Why??
><SNIP>
>
>Because of the whole female-consumes-male-after-mating thing ... ya
>know?
> (Notice I said shamanESSes [ie, female]. :)

Interesting theory. You realize however, that for the concept to be
viable, someone would have to not find the whole idea of "mating with
a ghoul" gut-wrenchingly repugnant.

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PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

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Message no. 35
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:39:26 CST
>Possible spoilers for some things
>
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> > Another hive of Ants co-opted a presidential candidate (Yeats) while the
> > mantids did the same to his running mate (Penchyk).
>
>PENCHYK'S A BUG?!
>
>When the hell did *this* happen? (I've gotta start reading the novels, I
>guess....)

It wasn't in any novels, it was hinted at in Super Tuesday (and Shadows of
the Underworld too, I think). I don't know if it was followed up anywhere
else.

>
>--
>(>) Texas 2-Step
> El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
>
>
>
>
>


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Message no. 36
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:43:30 CST
> > Possible spoilers for some things
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>The latest data on Anne Penchyk indicates that, while she's WORKING
>with the Mantids, she ISN'T a bug. Something about the bugs preferring
>her to be fully metahuman, as she'll be in the public eye, I believe.
>She's their 'agent on the inside'. That's from Shadows of the
>Underworld and Super Tuesday and I believe that's the latest data on
>the subject.
>
>But that brings to mind a question I've wanted to ask for a while. As I
>recall, Dunk left a rather hefty chunk to Penchyk and her organisation
>(the name of which I can't currently remember), along with a rather
>cryptic (and ironic?) message. Now, I've always thought that the
>message sounded like Dunk MIGHT know about Penchyk working with the
>Mantids. What do you guys think?
>

I wouldn't be surprised if he did knew. He knew that Vogel worked with
toxics ("the toxic path" I believe he called it). He was supposed to have
had a huge shadow network. It would make sense that he would use it to
discover the dirty little secrets of his competitors.

>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>..sig Sauer


Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


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Message no. 37
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:23:30 -0500
>He knew that <SPOILER> worked with
>toxics ("the toxic path" I believe he called it).

SUPER TUESDAY again?
Message no. 38
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:18:12 -0500
On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:08:05 -0400 (EDT) runnerpaul@*****.com writes:
<SNIP>
>Interesting theory. You realize however, that for the concept to be
>viable, someone would have to not find the whole idea of "mating with
>a ghoul" gut-wrenchingly repugnant.

Hey ... people are born ghouls, you know? :P

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Vampires have an oral fixation"

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Message no. 39
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:04:57 CST
> >He knew that <SPOILER> worked with
> >toxics ("the toxic path" I believe he called it).
>
>SUPER TUESDAY again?
>

Actually, Portfolio of a Dragon this time. It's in the part where he gives
Vogel the Ares stock and board seat.


Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."


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Message no. 40
From: NightRain nightrain@***.com.au
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:27:13 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: <Schizi@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>


> > Hunh? What Trilogy? I think the concept of spider changed somewhere.
I
> > think I remember someone saying that originally, spider was an insect
> > totem. As of Bug City, it was a regular totem.
> >
> Secrets of Power the very first
> the spider mentioned therein was more of a powerful spirit, thoguh I
remember
> someone referring to it as a totem.

I don't know about it just being a powerful spirit. Those things chasing
Neko through the air vents, and the same things that Striper and Neko
fought against had distinct bug-spirit like appearances.

Another thing about totems and bug spirits and the like that I would like
to mention. It seems to me that, especially with the advent of MitS, that
magic is shaped by the perception of the caster. Within this framework, it
would therefor easily be possible for a spider totem to a normal totem if
the player sees it that way, or it could be a full on bug spirit type totem
as per The Secrets of Power trilogy. Same goes for a lot of the totems out
there. At least in my SR Universe, it would be possible for there to be
several different versions any given totem, shaped by the magic-users
perception of the totem. So you could have Owl as the harbinger of death
if you follow the Native American traditional belief, or you could have Owl
as the wise slow tutor, if your perceptions were shaped by more
Caucasian/Western fairy tales and stories.

NightRain.

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Message no. 41
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:42:23 EDT
In a message dated 6/23/99 4:23:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nightrain@***.com.au writes:

> I don't know about it just being a powerful spirit. Those things chasing
> Neko through the air vents, and the same things that Striper and Neko
> fought against had distinct bug-spirit like appearances.

Yeah, though maybe that was just a spirits form of watchers? :-) I have not
read it in a while and the discussion on this topic was also a while ago. Not
sure if I recall, but was there ever a shaman in the trilogy?

> Another thing about totems and bug spirits and the like that I would like
> to mention
<snip perception of mage = totem>
I agree, the way the mage was raised could give him the idea of what his
totem would/should be. On my site, I put forth the idea of Construct and
Individualist shamans, and such. They might follow whatever totem they were
raised to. One of my examples was an Adept of the Magician Path, followed the
totem of Mantis the Hunter. Sought out buggies wherever they may lie.
Message no. 42
From: Ignacio De Lucas morrisjila@*******.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:10:55 GMT
>Secrets of Power the very first
> the spider mentioned therein was more of a powerful spirit, thoguh I
remember someone referring to it as a totem.

>I don't know about it just being a powerful spirit. Those things chasing
>Neko through the air vents, and the same things that Striper and Neko
>fought against had distinct bug-spirit like appearances.
>
>Another thing about totems and bug spirits and the like that I would like
>to mention. It seems to me that, especially with the advent of MitS, that
>magic is shaped by the perception of the caster. Within this framework, it
>would therefor easily be possible for a spider totem to a normal totem if
>the player sees it that way, or it could be a full on bug spirit type totem
>as per The Secrets of Power trilogy. Same goes for a lot of the totems out
>there. At least in my SR Universe, it would be possible for there to be
>several different versions any given totem, shaped by the magic-users
>perception of the totem. So you could have Owl as the harbinger of death
>if you follow the Native American traditional belief, or you could have Owl
>as the wise slow tutor, if your perceptions were shaped by more
>Caucasian/Western fairy tales and stories.
>
>NightRain.
>

Ok as far as I knew Totems choose mages, not the other way arround, so any
particular totem will choose a character that fits with the spirits nature,
expecting him or her to behave just like his protecting sipirit would. Thats
why every totem has advabteges and disadbantages, i can not imagine a cat
killing its prey from one slash unless it really needs to.

I guess its the same thing with insect spirits, I dont know if the spider
enters this category, by the way when I said my character got to a certain
agreement with the spider i didnt mean he became a mage, as a mater of fact
he´s a Sam whit Essense=1.1, another problem with Buzz is that not only the
spider spoke whith him but the Mantid sipirit did to, so you can imagine the
conflict within my character.

Any coments on the run are well accepted.

ATTE el MORRIS


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Message no. 43
From: hivemind hivemind@********.rr.com
Subject: Hi, honey! I brought home dinner!
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:11:53 -0500
>> Secrets of Power the very first
>> the spider mentioned therein was more of a powerful spirit, thoguh I
>remember
>> someone referring to it as a totem.


I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since
I read SoP), but I remember Howling Coyote telling Verner (or was it that
Australian IE?) that the Hopi considered Spider a "good" totem, along the
lines of what Arcady was saying, but She was out of line in that particular
circumstance.

hivemind

Better be ignorant of a matter than half know it.
-- Publius Syrus (42 BC)
-- Maxim 865

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