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Message no. 1
From: Requiem req@*********.com
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:00:13 -0800
Hoi, all. Guess I'll de-lurk and say hi now.

Hi.

Anyway - I'm running a SR3 game and have just implemented a hit location
system derived from one of the systems published in the Plastic Warriors'
GUide To House Rules, where wound levels to individual body parts (torso,
limbs, head) are recorded seperately, basically giving a condition monitor
to each. This seems to add to realism, and drastically increases player
life expectancies, and NPC as well. And unfortunately, after a little
playtesting, I'm realizing that it makes stun attacks much nastier, since
you've only got one (total) stun monitor. I'm considering reducing the
power of stun attacks, or giving free successes on the resistance test, or
something of the sort, to try to bring stun damage back in line with the
rest of the system.

Anyone else use hit locations? If similar to this sort of system, how did
they work? Any words of wisdom?

BTW, if anyone wants the rules themselves or a copy of my new&improved hit
location record sheet, send me private email. I figure attachments to the
list are a bad call.

-Requiem
0o-----------------------------------o0o---------------------------------o0
When Fate taps you on the shoulder, you'd best pay
attention. Unfortunately, she has the blasted habit of
tapping you on the opposite shoulder, so that when you
turn around she's actually on your other side, giggling
like a schoolgirl. I *hate* that.
-Harlequin
0o-----------------------------------o0o---------------------------------o0
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:01:32 +0100
According to Requiem, at 11:00 on 26 Nov 99, the word on the street was...

> Anyone else use hit locations? If similar to this sort of system, how did
> they work? Any words of wisdom?

The easiest way to deal with hit location in SR is, in my experience, to
leave them out altogether. Since the system isn't geared to hit locations,
to introduce them requires a lot of fiddling around with the rules to make
everything fit together (as I guess you've found out :)

I think I've seen two systems that will probably work best. One is David
Buehrer's hit location rules (which also appear in the Guide to House
Rules, close to the system you've modified).

The other one is in a German fanzine called Data Heaven, the November 1995
issue (does anyone know if there were any more issues, BTW? I got this one
sent to me by the editors and didn't hear anything about it after that).
Anyway, this system gives the normal 10 boxes on the condition monitor,
but also adds boxes to each hit location. When you take damage, it's
recorded on the general condition monitor as well as on the location that
was hit. For example, the legs have 6 boxes each, so if you get shot in
the leg for a Moderate wound, your overall condition monitor is at
Moderate, and you've lost three of your leg boxes. Once the number of
boxes in a hit location is reduced to 0, you roll on a table for secondary
effects.

[GridSec Section: start]
> BTW, if anyone wants the rules themselves or a copy of my new&improved hit
> location record sheet, send me private email. I figure attachments to the
> list are a bad call.

Attachments to the list are a _very_ bad call -- since you appear to be
new to ShadowRN, please read the FAQ if you haven't done so already. It
can be found at the URL in my signature.

--
Gurth@******.nl, ShadowRN GridSec: Enforcer Division
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
The NERPS FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/nerps/
Other GridSec members: Dvixen <dvixen@****.com>
Graht <graht@**********.worldnet.att.net>
Marc Renouf <renouf@********.com>
List Administrator: Adam Jury <adamj@*********.html.com>
List Owner: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>
Message no. 3
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 12:33:01 +0100
And so it came to happen that Gurth wrote:

<snip>

The other one is in a German fanzine called Data Heaven, the November 1995
issue (does anyone know if there were any more issues, BTW? I got this one
sent to me by the editors and didn't hear anything about it after that).

Actually one of the authors does work in the same as I work (Fantasy shop,
you know) here in Berlin. They have published 5 Issues so far plus a half
one that is mostly for NPC's. But they have sued the Hardcopy stuff for
almost 2 Years now and want to make an online magazine out of it. If I am
with some news about it I will post specific URL's.

<snip>
Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:36:10 +0100
According to Steadfast, at 12:33 on 28 Nov 99, the word on the street
was...

[Data Heaven fanzine]
> Actually one of the authors does work in the same as I work (Fantasy shop,
> you know) here in Berlin.

Would that be "Beutels End," Karl-Marx-Strasse 30? :)

> They have published 5 Issues so far plus a half one that is mostly for
> NPC's. But they have sued the Hardcopy stuff for almost 2 Years now and
> want to make an online magazine out of it. If I am with some news about
> it I will post specific URL's.

I do remember looking at the web site a few years ago, but I don't think
it gave any information about other issues. Could you tell them to get all
the issues on-line, if they haven't done so already (I don't know). A
downloadable version (PDF or something) would also be nice :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Het is misschien kankerverwekkend, maar last heb je d'r niet van.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 11:17:41 -0600
> > Anyone else use hit locations? If similar to this sort of system,
> > how did they work? Any words of wisdom?
>
> The easiest way to deal with hit location in SR is, in my experience, to
> leave them out altogether.

I have a six-sided die with a head, both arms, both legs, and a torso on it.
If it strikes me as important to know where someone got hit, I use that. It
strikes me as a lot simpler.

Of course, now M&M has some rudimentary combat location stuff in it
somewhere, so I might have to change this strategy.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 6
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:34:10 +0100
And so it came to happen that Gurth wrote:

[Data Heaven fanzine]
<Snip>
>Would that be "Beutels End," Karl-Marx-Strasse 30? :)

Right so. Since a member of Gridsec posted, it doesn't looks to me like
promotion than ;o)
<snip>
>Could you tell them to get all
>the issues on-line, if they haven't done so already (I don't know). A
>downloadable version (PDF or something) would also be nice :)

I will tell, but I don't think it will be online for about some time. Those
three have not much time, though they sure would like to do more for SR in
particular. So, it will take some time. And I do not think that they will do
the first five in a pdf file, though I will suggest. I think they will do
(if) the whole site in a navigatable WWW site. If I know more I post it.

Wisdom is something for the old, youth will rush in
and with luck will see the age when they will be wise.
Message no. 7
From: Jacoby Dutch-DK@*******.com
Subject: Hit locations
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:26:47 +0100
> > Anyone else use hit locations? If similar to this sort of system,
> > how did they work? Any words of wisdom?

I use a system where my players say they have their armor.(only usable with
called shots). A jacket cover arms and uppe body, a long coat the whole
body and so on.
This determines the armor value to deduct from the shot. And the we solve
the rest per std. rules. The damage goes directly to the full body
condition monitor. Not fair in all respects but usable so far. All normal
shots are per standard aimed at the upper body.

Regards
Erik 8-)
_______________
Dutch-DK@*******.com
"Good, bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Markus Widmer)
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Thu Jul 18 11:50:01 2002
Following my suggestions that we should introduce cyberware, bioware
and attribute damage, one of my players pointed out that it would
make much more sense to introduce hit locations / damage zones. Now
the thing is that SR uses a highly abstract combat system that
doesn't quite fit with the idea of attributing each shot to a
specific area. The whole idea of staging is to simulate how well (and
that means WHERE) the target is hit. This is why called shots raise
the damage level by one.

On the other hand, the rules in "Man and Machine" introduce sort of
post-hit damage zones. Only if the shot hits you very hard, you roll
for possible subsystem damage in cyberware and bioware slots, which
are quite similar to hit locations, but based on essence.

I read Ralf Hagen's suggestion on damage zones on the SR Archive,
which does not include cyberware damage, I'm afraid. Is there a
better solution out there? What do you think about the idea of
introducing hit locations?

All the best from lovely Vienna,
Markus
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Thu Jul 18 13:30:00 2002
According to Markus Widmer, on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> I read Ralf Hagen's suggestion on damage zones on the SR Archive,
> which does not include cyberware damage, I'm afraid. Is there a
> better solution out there? What do you think about the idea of
> introducing hit locations?

I think Graht came up with the most elegant system, that has the least
trouble fitting into SR's existing rules. However, it isn't really a hit
location system per se, but more something that you can use to decide where
the shot hit for description purposes. Basically, it consisted of a table on
which you roll 1D6 and add the number of successes rolled. The table went
like this (I just looked it up):

Roll Location
2 Arm
3 Leg
4 Arm
5 Leg
6-9 Torso
10-12 Head
13+ Roll 1D6: 1-3=Torso, 4-5=Head

What makes this table fit the SR system much better than most, is because it
takes into account the number of successes rolled, so that with more
successes (and thus with more damage) the hit location becomes more severe
as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Fri Jul 19 11:45:01 2002
At 07:23 PM 7/18/2002 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>According to Markus Widmer, on Thu, 18 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > I read Ralf Hagen's suggestion on damage zones on the SR Archive,
> > which does not include cyberware damage, I'm afraid. Is there a
> > better solution out there? What do you think about the idea of
> > introducing hit locations?
>
>I think Graht came up with the most elegant system, that has the least
>trouble fitting into SR's existing rules. However, it isn't really a hit
>location system per se, but more something that you can use to decide where
>the shot hit for description purposes. Basically, it consisted of a table on
>which you roll 1D6 and add the number of successes rolled. The table went
>like this (I just looked it up):
>
>Roll Location
>2 Arm
>3 Leg
>4 Arm
>5 Leg
>6-9 Torso
>10-12 Head
>13+ Roll 1D6: 1-3=Torso, 4-5=Head
>
>What makes this table fit the SR system much better than most, is because it
>takes into account the number of successes rolled, so that with more
>successes (and thus with more damage) the hit location becomes more severe
>as well.

Alternatively, you could use the same table and use the final outcome to
determine the location.

1d6 +1 if the target suffers a Light wound.
1d6 +2 for a Moderate wound.
1d6 +3 for a Serious wound.
1d6 +4 for a Deadly wound.

And in retrospect the table should be:

Roll Location
2 Arm
3 Leg
4 Arm
5 Leg
6 Torso
7 Head
8 Torso
9 Head
10 Torso

This provides a chance (albeit slim) of someone taking a Light wound to the
head.

The above takes the target's resistance successes into account as well as
the attacker's successes (which is more in line with Shadowrun's abstract
approach to combat), while my previous attempt only took the attacker's
successes into account.

I did figure out a palatable way to get more specific with regards to
determining whether cyberware damage or permanent damage occurred. <shrug>


To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Hit Locations
Date: Fri Jul 19 11:55:01 2002
At 09:46 AM 7/19/2002 -0600, Graht wrote:

>I did figure out a palatable way to get more specific with regards to
>determining whether cyberware damage or permanent damage occurred. <shrug>

That should be, "I *never* did figure out....

<sigh> It's Friday, I've worked hard this week, and my proofing skills
have suffered ;)

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--

Further Reading

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