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Message no. 1
From: Xyron-II <markus.meisen@****.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Hit Location System
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:05:42 +0100
Hoi, out there!

For all who are intersted, here's a hit location system We've made up:

1. resolve the attack normally

2. roll 2d6 on the following table to determine hit location:

dice result: hit location:
2: torso critical (+1 Damage)
3-4: left arm (additional TN# modifier)
5: left leg (quickness reduced)
6-8: torso (normal damage)
9: right leg (quickness reduced)
10-11: right arm (additional TN# modifier)
12: head (+1 Damage)

(if anyone recognizes it, it's "inspired" by the Battletech rules :-)

3: resist damage with armor applying to the appropriate hit location

4: apply special effects:

Arms: apply an additional wound modifier for actions with that arm. Pain
resistance does not reduce this additional modifier.
Example: moderate wound in right arm ==> +2 TN# on everything else , +4
TN# for firing a gun in the right hand

Legs: reduce quickness (for movement purposes only) by the appropriate
initiative reduction for that wound. Again, pain resistance doesn't
help.
Example: severe wound in left leg ==> quickness -3 for movement

5: there is no No. 5 :-)


notes:
-Armor protects with its normal value but only parts of the body:
Coats, form-fit and heavy armor protect arms, legs and torso
jackets protect torso and arms
vests protect only the torso
helmets protect the head

-cover protects as well(with its barrier rating), but only the parts
that are covered

-in melee, the table has to be changed (due to too much leg hits)
dice result: hit location:
2: left leg
3: torso critical
4-5: left arm
6-8: torso
9-10 right arm
11: head
12: right leg

-called shots: one must call a shot to target a specific hit location:
intended hit location: unaided mod: with Smart II:
torso (not critical) +3 +1
arms or legs +4 +2
head +6 +4


O.K. that's it for now; I'm sure I forgot something, but you'll point it
out to me, I'm sure... :-)

See ya,
Xyron-II
Message no. 2
From: Jeremy Reaban <jer@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:59:39 -0600
Not that I'm saying your system is bad. It's not. But, it is complicated.
Knowing where a character got hit is important - , but OTOH, having to roll
on a chart makes combat more annoying...so I present:

The worlds simplest hit location system (which AFAIK, I invented). Roll a 6
sided die, preferable one with pips, not numerals.

1 - Head
2 - Left Leg
3 - Right Leg
4 - Upper Chest
5 - Arms (pick one)
6 - Lower Chest (abdomen)

The advantage is, it's easy to remember, if you try to picture the pip
pattern of the
die forming a picture of the body part (of an admittedly bad drawing).

One pip looks like a head, two pips diagonally look like a leg, three pips
look like another leg (the other one), four pips (in a square) sort of look
like a chest, five pips in a cross look (sort of), like crossed arms, and
six pips (in a rectangle) looks like the entire torso (which makes you
think of the lower torso).

Statistically, it's works out fairly well.

16% for a head shot
16% for one leg
16% for the other leg
33% for geting hit in the torso
16% for getting hit in the arms

If you compare that with the table in Edge of the Sword (a big book of
guns), it gives the true percentages (which I have no idea how they figured
out, but they are believable) as :

10% Head
37% Torso
16% for the Arms
18% for one leg
18% for the other.

So! Realistically, my system fits fairly well, yet is also a) very simple -
only one die (well, two if you get hit in the arm - but you could also
flip a coin for that) b) easy to remember, because it's pictorially based.

Jeremy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
"Who loves you , and who do you love?"
- Damon Kilian (Richard Dawson)
Message no. 3
From: Wilson Reis de Souza Neto <wilson@*****.CETUC.PUC-RIO.BR>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:16:42 GMT-3
Jeremy Reaban wrote:

> The worlds simplest hit location system (which
AFAIK, I invented). Roll a 6
> sided die, preferable one with pips, not numerals.
>
> 1 - Head
> 2 - Left Leg
> 3 - Right Leg
> 4 - Upper Chest
> 5 - Arms (pick one)
> 6 - Lower Chest (abdomen)
>
> The advantage is, it's easy to remember, if you try to picture the pip
> pattern of the
> die forming a picture of the body part (of an admittedly bad drawing).
>
> One pip looks like a head, two pips diagonally look like a leg, three pips
> look like another leg (the other one), four pips (in a square) sort of look
> like a chest, five pips in a cross look (sort of), like crossed arms, and
> six pips (in a rectangle) looks like the entire torso (which makes you
> think of the lower torso).
>

<statistical explanation snip>

That's really interesting!
I'm really impressed. How it's possible to the human mind to create
such interpretations.

Six sided dice will never look the same.

---------------------------
Wilson Reis
mazoreis@***.com.br
wilson@*****.cetuc.puc-rio.br
UIN:1686272

http://www.iis.com.br/~mazoreis
Message no. 4
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:43:00 GMT
on 11.11.97 markus.meisen@****.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE wrote:

mm> 2. roll 2d6 on the following table to determine hit location:
mm>
mm> dice result: hit location:
mm> 2: torso critical (+1 Damage)
mm> 3-4: left arm (additional TN# modifier)
mm> 5: left leg (quickness reduced)
mm> 6-8: torso (normal damage)
mm> 9: right leg (quickness reduced)
mm> 10-11: right arm (additional TN# modifier)
mm> 12: head (+1 Damage)
mm>
mm> (if anyone recognizes it, it's "inspired" by the Battletech rules :-)

I knew I'd seen it somewhere :)


[snip]

Well, I like it (as I thought about using BTechs hit-location, anyway),
except for the melee rules. In unarmed combat, IMO it's much more likely
that a leg is hit. I know enough people, who fight by the rule of "First
the nose, than the kneecap". Usually, people don't care for their legs so
much, so hiting them is fairly easy.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 5
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:21:14 +0000
Jeremy wrote:
>> The worlds simplest hit location system (which AFAIK, I invented).
>> Roll a 6 sided die, preferable one with pips, not numerals.
I'll do you one better! And, considering the SR combat system, it
*IS* better.

Consider the damage received. Location is as follows :

D: Between the eyes, chummer..
S: Gut shot
M: Hit in the leg
L : Hit in the arm

Easy, isn't it?
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 6
From: Q <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:47:45 -0600
On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Fade wrote:

> I'll do you one better! And, considering the SR combat system, it
> *IS* better.
>
> Consider the damage received. Location is as follows :
>
> D: Between the eyes, chummer..
> S: Gut shot
> M: Hit in the leg
> L : Hit in the arm
>
> Easy, isn't it?

OK, then, let's take this to its logical conclusion. Let's say the same
person with the same amount of skill is standing the same distance from
the same target on two separate occasions. On occasion one, he holds a
sniper rifle. On occasion two, all he has is a palm pistol. Let's say
he's standing fairly close so as to eliminate all the questions of range.
By this system, on the first occasion, he hits the target right between
the eyes on nearly every shot, while on the second occasion, he's firing
wildly all over the place, sometimes hitting an arm, sometimes a leg, etc.
Although I like the idea of simplifying the hit location problem by just
using the damage codes, the system falls apart when looked at
realistically. It doesn't take into account that different amounts of
damage can be done to different body parts, say from just getting grazed
by a bullet instead of taking it directly in the head, or getting an arm
completely blown off instead of just a minor flesh wound.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Okay, now for the really important question: Who's got change?"
-Doc Hayward on the way to Argonne Computer Seminar

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 7
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 01:23:28 +0000
On 14 Nov 97, Q disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by writing:

<snip Fade's hit location system>

<snip>
> place, sometimes hitting an arm, sometimes a leg, etc. Although I
> like the idea of simplifying the hit location problem by just using
> the damage codes, the system falls apart when looked at
> realistically. It doesn't take into account that different amounts
> of damage can be done to different body parts, say from just getting
> grazed by a bullet instead of taking it directly in the head, or
> getting an arm completely blown off instead of just a minor flesh
> wound.

UHHHHHHH. I see ONE big (and I mean MAJOR) problem here. It's not the
hit location system's fault. It's SR's fault. To put it bluntly - the
whole system "falls apart when looked at realistically". An
average-skilled shooter can't kill somebody using a light pistol,
wearing armor improves the chance of clean miss, sniper rifles have a
maximum range of 400 meters (BTW: Gurth, thanks for the magscope
rules we cannibalis... err... borrowed ;> ), etc. etc.

So let's just forget about it, and play. SR is not Phoenix Command.
It's supposed to be more cinematic than realistic, IMNSHO.

And that's why using Fade's hit location system is much better and
simpler.
QED


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Amnesia rules - O
Message no. 8
From: Q <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:27:34 -0600
On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:

[snip stuff]

> So let's just forget about it, and play. SR is not Phoenix Command.
> It's supposed to be more cinematic than realistic, IMNSHO.

Ok, ok, point taken. I agree that SR is meant to be cinematic and not
necessarily realistic. However, the only reason that I can see to use hit
locations at all is to make the game more realistic. If we start
discussing the "cinematic"-ness of the game, we completely void the whole
point of hit location tables. In a cinematic game, the location where a
character is hit should be a location most beneficial to the _storyline_
and not one determined by random chance. If the gm decides that it would
fit the storyline best for a character's deadly wound to mean losing an
arm, then that's what should happen. The random roll of dice should have
no place in the discussion.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Okay, now for the really important question: Who's got change?"
-Doc Hayward on the way to Argonne Computer Seminar

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 9
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Hit Location System
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:13:00 +0100
>> D: Between the eyes, chummer..
>> S: Gut shot
>> M: Hit in the leg
>> L : Hit in the arm
>>
>> Easy, isn't it?
>
>OK, then, let's take this to its logical conclusion. Let's say the same
>person with the same amount of skill is standing the same distance from
>the same target on two separate occasions. On occasion one, he holds a
>sniper rifle. On occasion two, all he has is a palm pistol. Let's say
>he's standing fairly close so as to eliminate all the questions of range.
>By this system, on the first occasion, he hits the target right between
>the eyes on nearly every shot, while on the second occasion, he's firing
>wildly all over the place, sometimes hitting an arm, sometimes a leg, etc.
>Although I like the idea of simplifying the hit location problem by just
>using the damage codes, the system falls apart when looked at
>realistically. It doesn't take into account that different amounts of
>damage can be done to different body parts, say from just getting grazed
>by a bullet instead of taking it directly in the head, or getting an arm
>completely blown off instead of just a minor flesh wound.

Considered that a bit, yes. Could use a system with base damage, and final
damage. But then, it's too complex for easy use. Also, a plain hit location
table doesn't do anything like that either. What I really said, there, was,
just figure it out from the damage and the weapon, no need for a table. :)

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