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Message no. 1
From: rencheple@*******.net (Tim Martin)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:13:15 -0500
One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
house rules for determining infection resistance?

Thanks

Tim


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Message no. 2
From: raymacey@*****.com (Ray Macey)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:23:43 +1000
On 3/3/06, Tim Martin <rencheple@*******.net> wrote:
> One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
> by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
> house rules for determining infection resistance?

Not in 4th Ed (yet). There are rules in 3rd Ed however.

--
http://cyron.id.au
Message no. 3
From: bulletraven@***********.com (Peter Mellett)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:14:01 +0000
Ray Macey wrote:
> On 3/3/06, Tim Martin <rencheple@*******.net> wrote:
>
>> One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
>> by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
>> house rules for determining infection resistance?
>>
>
> Not in 4th Ed (yet). There are rules in 3rd Ed however.
>
> --
> http://cyron.id.au
>
>
>
Which book specifically? I could use that for my game now.

Thanks,
Pete
Message no. 4
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:42:55 +0100
---------------------- multipart/signed attachment

On Mar 4, 2006, at 13:14 , Peter Mellett wrote:

> Ray Macey wrote:
>> On 3/3/06, Tim Martin <rencheple@*******.net> wrote:
>>
>>> One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P
>>> damage
>>> by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
>>> house rules for determining infection resistance?
>>>
>>
>> Not in 4th Ed (yet). There are rules in 3rd Ed however.
>>
>> --
>> http://cyron.id.au
>>
>>
>>
> Which book specifically? I could use that for my game now.

Shadowrun Companion page 33. I assume this is correct. I love
Spotlight on PDF files! :-)

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison




---------------------- multipart/signed attachment--
Message no. 5
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:13:19 -0500
On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:13:15PM -0500, Tim Martin wrote:
> One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
> by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
> house rules for determining infection resistance?

Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
complete oversight with Bug City.

(for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.

I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 6
From: snicker@*********.net (snicker@*********.net)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:30:29 +0000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Sanger [mailto:swiftone@********.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2006 07:13 PM
> To: 'Shadowrun Discussion'
> Subject: Re: HMHVV Infection
>
> On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:13:15PM -0500, Tim Martin wrote:
> > One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
> > by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
> > house rules for determining infection resistance?
>
> Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
> infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
> complete oversight with Bug City.
>
> (for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
> metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
> realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.
>
> I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
> There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
> and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
> novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.

Why not two strains? Similar effects, but one is a metatype, the other a disease. It's
not the first time two completely different conditions have expressed themselves
similarly. Look at Albinism and vitiligo...

Snicker
Message no. 7
From: snicker@*********.net (snicker@*********.net)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:30:29 +0000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Sanger [mailto:swiftone@********.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2006 07:13 PM
> To: 'Shadowrun Discussion'
> Subject: Re: HMHVV Infection
>
> On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:13:15PM -0500, Tim Martin wrote:
> > One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
> > by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
> > house rules for determining infection resistance?
>
> Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
> infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
> complete oversight with Bug City.
>
> (for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
> metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
> realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.
>
> I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
> There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
> and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
> novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.

Why not two strains? Similar effects, but one is a metatype, the other a disease. It's
not the first time two completely different conditions have expressed themselves
similarly. Look at Albinism and vitiligo...

Snicker
Message no. 8
From: snicker@*********.net (snicker@*********.net)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:35:46 +0000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Sanger [mailto:swiftone@********.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2006 07:13 PM
> To: 'Shadowrun Discussion'
> Subject: Re: HMHVV Infection
>
> On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:13:15PM -0500, Tim Martin wrote:
> > One of my players' characters, a technomancer, was bitten for 2P damage
> > by a ghoul tonight while in VR. Are there are established canon or
> > house rules for determining infection resistance?
>
> Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
> infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
> complete oversight with Bug City.
>
> (for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
> metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
> realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.
>
> I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
> There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
> and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
> novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.

Sorry about the dup reply a second ago - didn't notice the return address. I had another
question about HMHVV, though...
Does anyone have a handy chart of humanoid races -> Vampiric genotypes? I've read a few
in the various books, but it always seemed like there was a hole or two?

Snicker
Message no. 9
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:37:52 -0500
At 02:13 PM 3/6/2006, Brett Sanger wrote:
>Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
>infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
>complete oversight with Bug City.
>
>(for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
>metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
>realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.
>
>I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
>There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
>and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
>novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.

Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
metatype, not a variant of HMHVV? Some don't consider the novels canon,
regardless of who wrote them.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 10
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:47:37 -0500
At 04:35 PM 3/6/2006, snicker@*********.net wrote:
>Does anyone have a handy chart of humanoid races -> Vampiric genotypes?
>I've read a few in the various books, but it always seemed like there was
>a hole or two?


Original strain HMHVV turns...
...Humans into Vampires.
...Elves into Banshees.
...Dwarves into Goblins.
...Orks into Wendigos.
..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of apostrophes.

Kreiger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 11
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:09:59 -0700
On 3/6/06, Timothy J. Lanza <tjlanza@************.com> wrote:
> At 04:35 PM 3/6/2006, snicker@*********.net wrote:
> >Does anyone have a handy chart of humanoid races -> Vampiric genotypes?
> >I've read a few in the various books, but it always seemed like there was
> >a hole or two?
>
>
> Original strain HMHVV turns...
> ...Humans into Vampires.
> ...Elves into Banshees.
> ...Dwarves into Goblins.
> ...Orks into Wendigos.
> ..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of apostrophes.

Dzoo-nu-qua

> Kreiger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.

--
-Graht
Message no. 12
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:36:26 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:47:37PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> Original strain HMHVV turns...
> ...Humans into Vampires.
> ...Elves into Banshees.
Yup.

> ...Dwarves into Goblins.
Technically no. Dwarves had disease resistance that left no HMHVV type,
but PAoE introduced HMHVV2, which DID give us goblins.

>
> ...Orks into Wendigos.
> ..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of apostrophes.

Dzoo-no-Qua or somesuch

> Kreiger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.

There were also the HMHVV2 strains, but I don't recall all the options:
Dwarves became Goblins
Trolls became Fomori
...what were the others?

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 13
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:40:31 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:37:52PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
> metatype, not a variant of HMHVV? Some don't consider the novels canon,
> regardless of who wrote them.

Absolutely true, and I'm among them. I just thought the novel did a
good portrayal of something in the rules. I consider Changeling to be a
decent RPG novel (RPG novel to other novel usually translates "good"
into "tolerable") but a great scifi novel. Among my 2-3 fav SR novels.
But that's me.

I'd have to check my books, but as I recall 2nd and 3rd editions made it
moderately clear (if in passing, since it wasn't a PC option), and the
companion section that gives the ghoul rules mentions that Kreiger
strain showed up in Chicago. I have traded away all my 1st ed
sourcebooks, sadly. All as I recall, so I'll have to check when I'm
with my books.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 14
From: jgilmour@*****.com (Jonathan and Jamie Gilmour)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:34:53 -0500
When a any metatype becomes infected and becomes the other metatype
(IE Dwarf to Goblin) do they retain full self control. For example
could a PC be a goblin if he wanted to? What stat changes happen? Is
there a book that answeres all of this and more that I could read to
find out?

On 3/6/06, Brett Sanger <swiftone@********.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:47:37PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> > Original strain HMHVV turns...
> > ...Humans into Vampires.
> > ...Elves into Banshees.
> Yup.
>
> > ...Dwarves into Goblins.
> Technically no. Dwarves had disease resistance that left no HMHVV type,
> but PAoE introduced HMHVV2, which DID give us goblins.
>
> >
> > ...Orks into Wendigos.
> > ..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of apostrophes.
>
> Dzoo-no-Qua or somesuch
>
> > Kreiger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.
>
> There were also the HMHVV2 strains, but I don't recall all the options:
> Dwarves became Goblins
> Trolls became Fomori
> ...what were the others?
>
> --
> SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
> swiftone@********.org
>
Message no. 15
From: weberm@*******.net (Michael Weber)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:38:34 -0500
"Timothy J. Lanza" <tjlanza@************.com> wrote:
>At 02:13 PM 3/6/2006, Brett Sanger wrote:

>>Some elitists among us, though accepting 4th Ed, still refuse to accept
>>infectious ghouls, being that it was a retcon to make up for FASA's
>>complete oversight with Bug City.
>>
>>(for those who didn't know) Prior to Bug City, ghouls were another
>>metatype, not an HMHVV strain. Apparently a Bug City author didn't
>>realize that, and FASA had to quickly pretend it was intentional.
>>
>>I personally found that non-infectious ghouls were more poingnant.
>>There was always some metatype that the orks and trolls could look at
>>and feel GOOD about their goblinization. The ghoul portrayed in the SR
>>novel Changeling has a lot to do with my view on this.
>
>Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
>metatype, not a variant of HMHVV? Some don't consider the novels canon,
>regardless of who wrote them.

I must say I have never heard of ghouls being a metahuman type nor
infectious, at least as infectious as someone with a virus can be,
as opposed to vampires.
Message no. 16
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:48:27 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 05:34:53PM -0500, Jonathan and Jamie Gilmour wrote:
> When a any metatype becomes infected and becomes the other metatype
> (IE Dwarf to Goblin) do they retain full self control. For example
> could a PC be a goblin if he wanted to? What stat changes happen? Is
> there a book that answeres all of this and more that I could read to
> find out?

For 3rd Ed, everything for standard HMHVV should be in the main book (no PC
options as written), and the ghoul stuff for PCs is in the SR Companion.
A lot of the HMHVV stuff might be in the Critters book, which was
available as a free PDF for a while IIRC. I'm afraid the various
editions have jumbled in my head.

For 4th Ed nothing is really out yet.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 17
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:59:54 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:37:52PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
> metatype, not a variant of HMHVV?

I'm still not near my books, but the Sixth World Wiki backs up the
in-game assumption that ghouls were the result of Goblinization.

The Krieger Strain

A variant of HMHVV that creates ghouls. Much more virulant than most
other strains of the virus, a Krieger infection can be passed on through
contact with any bodily fluids from one already infected. Unlike the
other strains, Kreiger HMHVV can result in partial infection and
requires no essence exchange between the infected and the carrier for
the disease to be passed on. At first, these unique traits of the
disease led to the mistaken conclusion that the ghoul transformation was
a form of Goblinization -- though that has since been disproven.

also, poking through old TSS issues dug this up from TSS #3:

[There are two types of ghouls in this adventure, based on conflicting
information in the Shadowrun books.The majority of the ghouls are
goblinized (SR2 p225), the others have been turned into ghouls by
being infected by the Krieger strain of the HMVV virus (Bug City, p150).
These Krieger Ghouls are noted aboveand have an additional paranormal
power, Infective. Similar to Infection, these creatures can (1-2 on a
d6roll) infect a victim when striking with a barehanded attack that does
S damage or greater. When the victim suffers a D wound (or fills up the
physical damage chart) anytime while infected, the character
will apparently die. Shortly after this "death", the individual will
return to life as a ghoul. The virus remains dormant in the victim for
[8+1d6 - Body] months before expiring. During that time, a dormant
victimcannot pass the virus to others. Only upon turning into a ghoul
can the Krieger Ghoul pass the Krieger strain to others. Krieger Ghouls
are more prone to violence than normal (goblinized) Ghouls and
have faster mood swings. They are possibly suffering from a bipolar
disorder as well as having turned into Ghouls. There is no cure for the
Krieger strain of HMVV.]

so apparently SR2 p225 is the place to go.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 18
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:25:17 +0100
On 6 Mar 2006, at 23:34, Jonathan and Jamie Gilmour wrote:

> When a any metatype becomes infected and becomes the other metatype
> (IE Dwarf to Goblin) do they retain full self control. For example
> could a PC be a goblin if he wanted to? What stat changes happen? Is
> there a book that answeres all of this and more that I could read to
> find out?

Nope. The only HMHVV victims to retain sentience are vampires
(infected humans) and ghouls. The others just become scary, brainless
killing machines.

Hmm, not unlike some street samurai I've had the displeasure to meet...

-- Wild_Cat





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Message no. 19
From: st0023kr@***.net (Kevin Roberts)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:38:19 -0600
Well here is my $2.00 worth.
If you want some 2nd edition rules.
"Vampire" an article in Challenge #60
It goes into detail as to what you get magic wise.
The good, the bad, and Magic.
It is a good article even though it is 2nd edition.


VCI WebMail
http://www.vci.net
Message no. 20
From: st0023kr@***.net (Kevin Roberts)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:04:29 -0600
I forgot...
In Challenge Issue #46 also goes into playing a Vampire..


On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:38:19 -0600, Kevin Roberts wrote
> Well here is my $2.00 worth.
> If you want some 2nd edition rules.
> "Vampire" an article in Challenge #60
> It goes into detail as to what you get magic wise.
> The good, the bad, and Magic.
> It is a good article even though it is 2nd edition.
>
> VCI WebMail
> http://www.vci.net


VCI WebMail
http://www.vci.net
Message no. 21
From: wilson.reis@*****.com (Wilson Reis)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:00:18 -0300
On 3/6/06, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
>
> On 6 Mar 2006, at 23:34, Jonathan and Jamie Gilmour wrote:
>
> > When a any metatype becomes infected and becomes the other metatype
> > (IE Dwarf to Goblin) do they retain full self control. For example
> > could a PC be a goblin if he wanted to? What stat changes happen? Is
> > there a book that answeres all of this and more that I could read to
> > find out?
>
> Nope. The only HMHVV victims to retain sentience are vampires
> (infected humans) and ghouls. The others just become scary, brainless
> killing machines.
>

I´ve always thought that Wendigos were intelligent. Ok with scary
killing machine, but inteligent still. I remember GMing an SR2
campaign where the main opponent was a Wendigo shaman. (And yes, we
used to rule that regeneration could cure drain damage)

Will
Message no. 22
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:06:37 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 05:59:54PM -0500, Brett Sanger wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:37:52PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> > Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
> > metatype, not a variant of HMHVV?

Okay, I checked on the books, and here's the deal, in order of
publication.

SR2 p 225 definitely lists ghouls as goblinizing.

Bug City refers to ghouls as infectious, but does not mention HMHVV,
Krieger, nor does it make it seem that there has been any change in the
perception of ghouls' origin. (So far as I can tell, but I didn't reread
the entire book, just the ghoultown section.

TSS #3 comes out with rules for Krieger strain HMHVV, apparently by
Thomas Deeny. This article has the HMHVV-caused ghouls as a distinctly
separate group, not a new explanation, and is not an official FASA
article.

SR Companion (for 3rd edition) comes out listing (different) rules for
Krieger strain and Ghoul PCs. (this is about 4 years (!) after Bug City
came out, all that time without an explanation). Mr. Deeny is not
listed as a contributor. The section explains that ghouls were once
thought to goblinize.

3rd edition Critters booklet lists ghouls as HMHVV-caused.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 23
From: swiftone@********.org (Brett Sanger)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:09:26 -0500
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 05:36:26PM -0500, Brett Sanger wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 04:47:37PM -0500, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> > Original strain HMHVV turns...
> > ...Humans into Vampires.
> > ...Elves into Banshees.
> > ...Dwarves into Goblins.
> Technically no. Dwarves had disease resistance that left no HMHVV type,
> but PAoE introduced HMHVV2, which DID give us goblins.

Correcting myself, I checked, and while PAOE did say that dwarves
apparently resisted HMHVV until a particular strain, they do not label
that as HMHVV2.

> > ...Orks into Wendigos.
> > ..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of apostrophes.
> Dzoo-noo-Qua or somesuch
> > Krieger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.

> There were also the HMHVV2 strains, but I don't recall all the options:
> Dwarves became Goblins
> Trolls became Fomori
Humans become Nosferatu
Sasquatches become bandersnatches.

--
SwiftOne / Brett Sanger
swiftone@********.org
Message no. 24
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 00:21:44 -0600
> Trolls became Fomori
This is the second time I've heard someone say that.....Fomori aren't
HMHVV'd trolls, they're the celtic trolls....per SR Comp...I know there's a
troll hmhvv'd type that's similar in name to fomori (formorian or something
like that) but fomori aren't...(correct me if I'm wrong, or if someone
called two things the same name somewhere...)
Message no. 25
From: weberm@*******.net (Michael Weber)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 04:19:32 -0500
Derek Hyde <derek@***************.com> wrote:

>> Trolls became Fomori
>
>This is the second time I've heard someone say that.....Fomori aren't
>HMHVV'd trolls, they're the celtic trolls....per SR Comp...I know there's a
>troll hmhvv'd type that's similar in name to fomori (formorian or something
>like that) but fomori aren't...(correct me if I'm wrong, or if someone
>called two things the same name somewhere...)

I think they're called something like "Dzo-Zo-Zo" and are listed in the North
American Critters Guide.

Sasquatch with HIV become Wendigos.
Message no. 26
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:53:33 +0100
According to Timothy J. Lanza, on 6-3-06 22:47 the word on the street was...

> ..Trolls into something starting with a D and having a bunch of
> apostrophes.

Dzoo-noo-qua (p. 56, PANA).

> Kreiger-strain HMHVV turns any metatype into a Ghoul.

And there's HMHVV-II that turns trolls into fomorians, but I don't
recall right now what it does to the other metatypes.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:59:44 +0100
According to Derek Hyde, on 7-3-06 07:21 the word on the street was...

>>Trolls became Fomori
>
> This is the second time I've heard someone say that.....Fomori aren't
> HMHVV'd trolls, they're the celtic trolls....per SR Comp...I know there's a
> troll hmhvv'd type that's similar in name to fomori (formorian or something
> like that) but fomori aren't...(correct me if I'm wrong, or if someone
> called two things the same name somewhere...)

You are right: Paranormal Animals of Europe introduced fomorians as
HMHVV-2-infected trolls (p. 46) whose range is limited to Ireland; the
original SR Companion later added fomori -- without "an" at the end --
as a metavariant of trolls (p. 40).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 28
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:14:43 +0100
On Mar 7, 2006, at 10:19 , Michael Weber wrote:

> Derek Hyde <derek@***************.com> wrote:
>
>>> Trolls became Fomori
>>
>> This is the second time I've heard someone say that.....Fomori aren't
>> HMHVV'd trolls, they're the celtic trolls....per SR Comp...I know
>> there's a
>> troll hmhvv'd type that's similar in name to fomori (formorian or
>> something
>> like that) but fomori aren't...(correct me if I'm wrong, or if
>> someone
>> called two things the same name somewhere...)
>
> I think they're called something like "Dzo-Zo-Zo" and are listed in
> the North
> American Critters Guide.

From SR1's Paranormal Animals of North America we have:

Sasquatch -> Bandersnatch (with variant of HMHVV)
Troll -> Dzoo-noo-qua [these are not sentient]
Human -> Loup garou (with variant of HMHVV -- possibly same one that
causes Bandersnatch) -- also note that this is French for werewolf

From SR4 core rules we have:

Ghouls are infected with Krieger strain of HMHVV. This is the same
rule from SR3 Companion.
Vampires are Humans infected with HMHVV.
Wendigos are Orks infected with HMHVV.


SR3's SOTA 2063 states that they have not been able to come up with
any zeta-interferon to provide immunity to any HMHVV strain.

SR2's Threats indicates:

Human, orks and elves retain intelligence when infected with HMHVV.
Dwarves and trolls infected with HMHVV do NOT retain intelligence.

Then in one of the comments from there (page 35) we have:

Jarka-Criscione strain (HMHVV-II) causes severe neurological and
physiological deterioration in all races -- including humans
Bruckner-Langer strain transforms Humans into Nosferatu but kills
all other races

But another comment says that other races can survive being
transformed to Nosferatu under proper conditions and diet.

Loup garou caused by HMHVV-II.
Bandersnatch caused by HMHVV-II.
Fomorians are trolls infected with HMHVV-II.
Goblins are dwarves infected by HMHVV.

SR3's Critters indicates:

Four known strains of HMHVV, each affecting the different races
differently.

HMHVV causes Elf->Banshee.
Dzoo-noo-qua is Troll with HMHVV -- not intelligent.
Formorian is Troll with HMHVV-II.
Ghoul is metahuman with Krieger strain of HMHVV.
Goblin is Dwarf with HMHVV.
Loup-garou is Human with HMHVV-2.
Nosferatu are humans with Bruckner-Langer strain of HMHVV.
Vampire are humans with HMHVV.
Wendigo are orks with HMHVV.

Therefore, we have a lovely table (if I could make attachments it
would be pretty):

For HMHVV, Krieger, Jarka-Criscione (HMHVV-II), Bruckner-Langer

Dwarf -> Goblin, Ghoul, ?, ?
Elf -> Banshee, Ghoul, ?, ?
Human -> Vampire, Ghoul, Loup-garou, Nosferatu
Ork -> Wendigo, Ghoul, ?, ?
Troll -> Dzzo-noo-qua, Ghoul, Formorian, ?
Sasquatch -> ?, Bandersnatch, ?, ?

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 29
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:51 +0100
On Mar 7, 2006, at 11:14 , Scott Harrison wrote:
>
> For HMHVV, Krieger, Jarka-Criscione (HMHVV-II), Bruckner-Langer
>
> Dwarf -> Goblin, Ghoul, ?, ?
> Elf -> Banshee, Ghoul, ?, ?
> Human -> Vampire, Ghoul, Loup-garou, Nosferatu
> Ork -> Wendigo, Ghoul, ?, ?
> Troll -> Dzoo-noo-qua, Ghoul, Formorian, ?
>

> Sasquatch -> ?, ?, Bandersnatch, ?

Correcting the Sasquatch table because the Bandersnatch was in the
wrong column, and the Dzoo name was not spelled properly. The above
table should be correct unless I once again missed something. :-(

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison
Message no. 30
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:32:02 -0800 (PST)
> Okay, I checked on the books, and here's the deal, in order of
> publication.
>
> SR2 p 225 definitely lists ghouls as goblinizing.

In the Critters section of the main book.

> Bug City refers to ghouls as infectious, but does not mention
> HMHVV, Krieger, nor does it make it seem that there has been any
> change in the perception of ghouls' origin. (So far as I can tell,
> but I didn't reread the entire book, just the ghoultown section.

I will have to check my books since you make no mention of Paranormal
Animals of North America/Europe here. I thought both of these books
were published befeore Bug City (?).

I do know that there is mention of Krieger-strain HMHVV being the
cause of ghouls as a possible "theory" by parazoologists, prior to
Bug City suggeting that ghouls were a result of infection rather than
goblinization. This is either found in the main book, or one of the
Paranormal Animal books.

***

Some time ago, I wrote up my take on what Essence is, and
tangentally, how various forms of vampirism interact with Essence.
This led me to rework HMHVV a bit in my take on the 6th world. More
recently, I had to come up with rules for player character's infected
with HMHVV. This led me to further rethink HMHVV in my games. While
my notes on this are not at all organized, they should get that way.
Nothing motivates like a project. I would be willing to build a
concise layout of my HMHVV rules/explanations if there was interest
in them. It would be SR3, as far as mechanics compliance goes. And
a number of small aspects are very much house rules, such as the
ability to regain essence over long periods of time. Never the less,
it might prove useful.

======Korishinzo
--now where did I put all those notes? *glaring at messy archive*

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Message no. 31
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:02:58 +0100
According to Ice Heart, on 7-3-06 17:32 the word on the street was...

> I will have to check my books since you make no mention of Paranormal
> Animals of North America/Europe here. I thought both of these books
> were published befeore Bug City (?).

Long before. Off the top of my head, PANA is from 1990 and PAoE from
1992, whereas Bug City is 1994.

> --now where did I put all those notes? *glaring at messy archive*

Command-spacebar? ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Voorlopig gaan we nog even door
Op het lichtend pad, het verkeerde spoor
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 32
From: scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:12:41 +0100
---------------------- multipart/signed attachment

On Mar 7, 2006, at 19:02 , Gurth wrote:

> According to Ice Heart, on 7-3-06 17:32 the word on the street was...
>
>> --now where did I put all those notes? *glaring at messy archive*
>
> Command-spacebar? ;)

:-)

--
·𐑕𐑒𐑪𐑑
·𐑣𐑺𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑯 Scott
Harrison




---------------------- multipart/signed attachment--
Message no. 33
From: ferratus@*****.com (Ferratus Ferratus)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:59:13 -0800
On 3/6/06, Timothy J. Lanza <tjlanza@************.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is there any non-novel source that explicitly states that Ghouls are a
> metatype, not a variant of HMHVV? Some don't consider the novels canon,
> regardless of who wrote them.



I knew I remembered something......

Adventure: Eyewitness (fasa 7316) pp.69
<snip>
Adam Shepherd
Born Eric Steward, heir to a corp fortune, Shepherd had the bad luck to
goblinize into a ghoul. Fortunately for him, he managed to maintain his
sanity, and used his considerable intelligence <snip>
Message no. 34
From: rencheple@*******.net (Tim Martin)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:33:22 -0600
Ice Heart wrote:
> I would be willing to build a concise layout of my HMHVV rules/explanations if there
was interest in them.
>
I would certainly be interested in them.

Thanks

Tim
Message no. 35
From: jgilmour@*****.com (Jonathan and Jamie Gilmour)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:23:03 -0500
aye! me too

On 3/9/06, Tim Martin <rencheple@*******.net> wrote:
> Ice Heart wrote:
> > I would be willing to build a concise layout of my HMHVV rules/explanations if
there was interest in them.
> >
> I would certainly be interested in them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim
>
>
Message no. 36
From: run@***********.com (run@***********.com)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:01:57 -0500
I took Scott's comments and fixed the table he setup and posted them onto,
http://www.btvos.com/delta/ideas.asp?cid3 There is also a link to
<http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/HMHVV.htm>http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/HMHVV.htm

which has some more detail.

Rick




At 01:33 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
>Ice Heart wrote:
>>I would be willing to build a concise layout of my HMHVV
>>rules/explanations if there was interest in them.
>>
>I would certainly be interested in them.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tim
>
Message no. 37
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:46:08 -0500
At 05:34 PM 3/6/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>When a any metatype becomes infected and becomes the other metatype
>(IE Dwarf to Goblin) do they retain full self control. For example
>could a PC be a goblin if he wanted to? What stat changes happen? Is
>there a book that answeres all of this and more that I could read to
>find out?

Aren't Goblins a mid-eastern sub-race of Ork?
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/
Message no. 38
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: HMHVV Infection
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:45:47 -0500
At 06:46 PM 3/30/2006, Ubiquitous wrote:
>Aren't Goblins a mid-eastern sub-race of Ork?

That's /Hob/goblin.


--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman

Further Reading

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