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Message no. 1
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:46:47 -0600
Ok, I'm flipping through Critters, trying to figure out what each metahuman
race turns into with various strains of the HMHVV. Any help filling in the
gaps?

HMHVV-1
Human - Vampire (sukuyan, abat)
Dwarf - Goblin
Elf - Banshee
Ork - Wendigo
Troll - Dzoo-noo-qua

HMHVV-2
Human - Loup Garou
Dwarf
Elf
Ork
Troll - Fomorian
(Sasquatch - Bandersnatch?)

HMHVV, Krieger Strain
Human - Ghoul (sasabonsam, busaw)
Dwarf
Elf
Ork
Troll

HMHVV, Bruckner-Langer
Human - Nosferatu
Dwarf
Elf
Ork
Troll


***
Skald-Mark Mjöksiglandi
a.k.a. Nexx
a.k.a. Mark Hall
***
"If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no
light. If I lose paper and ink I will write in blood on forgotten walls. I
will write always. I will capture nights all over the world and bring them
to you."
-Henry Rollins
***
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/index.html
Updated November 15th, 2000
Message no. 2
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:33:35 -0600
From: Nexx
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 8:22 PM

> Ok, I'm flipping through Critters, trying to figure out what
> each metahuman race turns into with various strains of the HMHVV.
> Any help filling in the gaps?
>
> HMHVV-1
> Human - Vampire (sukuyan, abat)
> Dwarf - Goblin
> Elf - Banshee
> Ork - Wendigo
> Troll - Dzoo-noo-qua

That pretty much covers that.

> HMHVV-2
> Human - Loup Garou
> Dwarf
> Elf
> Ork
> Troll - Fomorian
> (Sasquatch - Bandersnatch?)

That's covered, too. Including the bandersnatch. The strain is called
Jarka-Criscione, by the way, though I can't remember where I saw it named.
It was in some book, though; probably in PAoE.

> HMHVV, Krieger Strain
> Human - Ghoul (sasabonsam, busaw)
> Dwarf
> Elf
> Ork
> Troll

Dwarfs, elves, orks, and trolls become ghouls, too. For confirmation, check
out the PC ghoul rules in SRComp or Bug City.

This is also, unofficially, HMHVV-4.

> HMHVV, Bruckner-Langer
> Human - Nosferatu
> Dwarf
> Elf
> Ork
> Troll

Humans are currently the only known species affected by HMHVV-3. Rumors
persist in shadowtalk about non-human nosferatu, but no confirmation.

Basically, you covered all the holes yourself.
Message no. 3
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:30:22 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Goodman"

> > HMHVV-2
> > Troll - Fomorian
> > (Sasquatch - Bandersnatch?)
>
> That's covered, too. Including the bandersnatch. The strain is called
> Jarka-Criscione, by the way, though I can't remember where I saw it named.
> It was in some book, though; probably in PAoE.

Thanks, Patrick, but how is this one covered? Do dwarves, elves, and orks
become loup-garou as well, with only the major differences in trolls causing
them to become fomorians rather than loup-garou?
Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:57:39 -0600
From: Nexx
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 8:40 PM

> > > HMHVV-2
> > > Troll - Fomorian
> > > (Sasquatch - Bandersnatch?)
> >
> > That's covered, too. Including the bandersnatch.
>
> Thanks, Patrick, but how is this one covered? Do dwarves, elves,
> and orks become loup-garou as well, with only the major differences
> in trolls causing them to become fomorians rather than loup-garou?

No, to the best of my ability to figure out, there is no Strain-2
manifestation for orks, elves, and dwarves. The ones you listed are the
only ones.

I have some personal theories regarding HMHVV, but I'm saving them until I
can write them more rationally.
Message no. 5
From: GSW13 darklordsatin@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:00:29 -0500
> HMHVV-1
> Human - Vampire (sukuyan, abat)
> Dwarf - Goblin
> Elf - Banshee
> Ork - Wendigo
> Troll - Dzoo-noo-qua
>

You left one out

Lemurs - Chupacabras

And yes I know it's not definite fact so don't flame me, but let's face it,
there is a very strong point made of this in <U>Cyberpirates</U>.

/*----------------------------------------------------------------
George, GSW13, Mr. Peabody, DL (Darklord) Satin, The God of Nothing, etc.

"Wo ist Dein Hobo Führer?" <---- If my german is wrong correct me
----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:05:17 -0600
From: GSW13
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:02 PM

> > HMHVV-1
>
> You left one out
>
> Lemurs - Chupacabras
>
> And yes I know it's not definite fact so don't flame me, but
> let's face it, there is a very strong point made of this in
> <U>Cyberpirates</U>.

Lots of shadow commentary was made of it, yes, but there's nothing
conclusive in that text or anywhere else. It's certainly not clear that the
chupacabras is an HMHVV form, since there's as much "evidence" presented
that it's a man-made critter that got out of hand.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth: The
universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)
Message no. 7
From: Nexus tex_nex@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:59:44 -0600
Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been arround to long for it to
be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because its closer to reality.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Goodman" <pgoodman13@************.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: HMHVV Variants


From: GSW13
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:02 PM

> > HMHVV-1
>
> You left one out
>
> Lemurs - Chupacabras
>
> And yes I know it's not definite fact so don't flame me, but
> let's face it, there is a very strong point made of this in
> <U>Cyberpirates</U>.

Lots of shadow commentary was made of it, yes, but there's nothing
conclusive in that text or anywhere else. It's certainly not clear that the
chupacabras is an HMHVV form, since there's as much "evidence" presented
that it's a man-made critter that got out of hand.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth: The
universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)
Message no. 8
From: Nexus tex_nex@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:08:27 -0600
Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been around to long for it to
be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because its closer to reality.

Nexus
"A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making
them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a
new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
-Maxwell Planck

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Goodman" <pgoodman13@************.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: HMHVV Variants


From: GSW13
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:02 PM

> > HMHVV-1
>
> You left one out
>
> Lemurs - Chupacabras
>
> And yes I know it's not definite fact so don't flame me, but
> let's face it, there is a very strong point made of this in
> <U>Cyberpirates</U>.

Lots of shadow commentary was made of it, yes, but there's nothing
conclusive in that text or anywhere else. It's certainly not clear that the
chupacabras is an HMHVV form, since there's as much "evidence" presented
that it's a man-made critter that got out of hand.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth: The
universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)
Message no. 9
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:34:03 -0600
From: "Nexus"
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:59:44 -0600

>Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been arround to
>long for it to be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because
>its closer to reality.

Closer to reality, in a game like this. Man, that's the most oxymoronic
thing I've seen in print all week. Of course, it's only Tuesday, so there's
still time....

Yeah, the legends have been around a long time, but that doesn't for a
second mean the things aren't man-made. The description of the thing in
CYBERPIRATES leaves a lot of doubt in my mind about the thing's "natural"
transformation from something else.

Not to mention the fact that it doesn't follow what we know of HMHVV's modus
operandi.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth:
The universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)


_____________________________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 10
From: Nexus tex_nex@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:31:35 -0600
I live in Texas and have actually seen 10 O'clock News programs on the
subject of Chupie sightings and the like.
If you want to have the monsters follow the FASA description and be
manmade....well, that's your decision. I just prefer my local monsters home
grown.

Nexus
"A scientific truth does not triumph by
convincing its opponents and making
them see the light, but rather because
its opponents eventually die and a new
generation grows up that is familiar with it."
-Maxwell Planck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Goodman" <pgoodman13@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: HMHVV Variants


> From: "Nexus"
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:59:44 -0600
>
> >Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been arround to
> >long for it to be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because
> >its closer to reality.
>
> Closer to reality, in a game like this. Man, that's the most oxymoronic
> thing I've seen in print all week. Of course, it's only Tuesday, so
there's
> still time....
>
> Yeah, the legends have been around a long time, but that doesn't for a
> second mean the things aren't man-made. The description of the thing in
> CYBERPIRATES leaves a lot of doubt in my mind about the thing's "natural"
> transformation from something else.
>
> Not to mention the fact that it doesn't follow what we know of HMHVV's
modus
> operandi.
>
> --
> Patrick Goodman
> "We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth:
> The universe is held together by love."
> -- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
> (from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
Message no. 11
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:42:59 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nexus"


> Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been arround to long for it to
> be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because its closer to reality.

The reason I didn't go with HMHVV was because the description in Critters
specifically mentioned that they did not carry it, though it did say that
their tissues looked like they did... I might go with them having a LPVV
(Lower Primate Vampiric Virus), but I don't think Lemurs would come down
with a Human-Metahuman virus for several viral generations without the virus
evolving somewhat.

***
Skald-Mark Mjöksiglandi
a.k.a. Nexx
a.k.a. Mark Hall
***
"If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no
light. If I lose paper and ink I will write in blood on forgotten walls. I
will write always. I will capture nights all over the world and bring them
to you."
-Henry Rollins
***
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/index.html
Updated November 15th, 2000
Message no. 12
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:18:39 -0000
>From: "Nexx" <nexx@********.net>
>HMHVV, Krieger Strain
>Human - Ghoul (sasabonsam, busaw)
>Dwarf - ""
>Elf - ""
>Ork - ""
>Troll - ""

Phil

Dying is an art like everything else.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Message no. 13
From: GSW13 darklordsatin@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:57:47 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nexx" <nexx@********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: HMHVV Variants



> > Oh come now, the "Goat Sucker" legends have been arround to long for
it
to
> > be Man-made. I'd go with the HMHVV just because its closer to reality.
>
> The reason I didn't go with HMHVV was because the description in Critters
> specifically mentioned that they did not carry it, though it did say that
> their tissues looked like they did... I might go with them having a LPVV
> (Lower Primate Vampiric Virus), but I don't think Lemurs would come down
> with a Human-Metahuman virus for several viral generations without the
virus
> evolving somewhat.


This bit was actually covered in Cyberpirates (I'd find the page and quote
but my book is at a friends right now. The said, and I paraphrase, that the
lemur population was supplemented strongly by adding a large amount of human
genetic code to them. This genetic supplement would explain why they are
susceptible to a HMH virus, or perhaps to a virus which is <B>very</B>
closely related to an HMH one, perhaps HMHVV - Lemur Strain or LVV (Lemur
Vampiric Virus).

/*----------------------------------------------------------------
George, GSW13, Mr. Peabody, DL (Darklord) Satin, The God of Nothing, etc.

"Wo ist Dein Hobo Führer?" <---- If my german is wrong correct me
----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Message no. 14
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:05:10 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Nexus <tex_nex@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: HMHVV Variants


>I live in Texas and have actually seen 10 O'clock News programs on the
>subject of Chupie sightings and the like.
>If you want to have the monsters follow the FASA description and be
>manmade....well, that's your decision. I just prefer my local monsters home
>grown.
>


Well, when the stories started in South America, there were, pretty much
from the start, conflicting stories about its' origin. Among the stories of
it being from Hell etc. were theories that it was a US-made genetically
enhanced monster or a mutant creature born from toxic waste. Also it might
have been brought or grown by aliens. More or less what they say in the book
is what they are saying in real life about its origin.
Message no. 15
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:57:30 -0800 (PST)
> I live in Texas and have actually seen 10 O'clock
News programs on the subject of Chupie sightings and
the like. If you want to have the monsters follow the
FASA description and be manmade....well, that's your
decision. I just prefer my local monsters home grown.
> Nexus

Why not have both?

What's to stop some loony scientist from experimenting
on lemurs (or whatever) and then deciding to take
advantage of an old legend in order to cover up his
tinkering? And what's to stop the old legend actually
being based on fact like a lot of the other old
legends are proving to be? Who says there aren't two
kinds of chupacabras out there...? Or any other
paranimal for that matter?

Come to think of it, that'd be a good way to throw a
scare into players who are getting complacent about
paranimals. Throw what LOOKS like your average
hellhound/barghest/whatever at them...but one with
some interesting differences...

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@************.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 11:50:16 -0600
From: Nexus
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:53 PM

> I live in Texas...

So do I, buddy-boy, so do I. I'm curious as to what might have made you
think that I didn't, or that I didn't know the legends about the
chupacabras.

> ...and have actually seen 10 O'clock News programs on the
> subject of Chupie sightings and the like.

So have I.

> If you want to have the monsters follow the FASA description and
> be manmade....well, that's your decision. I just prefer my local
> monsters home grown.

Yeah, south Texas is well known for its lemur population....

If you want the monster to be home-grown, then you *have* to get away from
the concept of chupacabras being an HMHVV form. There might be a couple of
different critters called chupacabras, but the one we're discussing isn't
even native to Texas; it's a Caribbean critter, maybe in Madascar as well.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth: The
universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)
Message no. 17
From: Nexus tex_nex@*******.com
Subject: HMHVV Variants
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 15:31:24 -0600
I didn't know that you lived in Texas, the legend of the Chupacabra is quite
common in all areas with large Hispanic populations.
As for the lemurs and HMHVV...South Texas is know for it population of
uncaged monkeys and baboons. Though they are not lemurs they could be used
for a similar argument.

Nexus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Goodman" <pgoodman13@************.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 11:50 AM
Subject: RE: HMHVV Variants


From: Nexus
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 5:53 PM

> I live in Texas...

So do I, buddy-boy, so do I. I'm curious as to what might have made you
think that I didn't, or that I didn't know the legends about the
chupacabras.

> ...and have actually seen 10 O'clock News programs on the
> subject of Chupie sightings and the like.

So have I.

> If you want to have the monsters follow the FASA description and
> be manmade....well, that's your decision. I just prefer my local
> monsters home grown.

Yeah, south Texas is well known for its lemur population....

If you want the monster to be home-grown, then you *have* to get away from
the concept of chupacabras being an HMHVV form. There might be a couple of
different critters called chupacabras, but the one we're discussing isn't
even native to Texas; it's a Caribbean critter, maybe in Madascar as well.

--
Patrick Goodman
"We say atoms are bound by weak attractors. Why not admit the truth: The
universe is held together by love."
-- Michio Von Kerr, Wayist Physicist
(from GENE RODDENBERRY'S ANDROMEDA)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about HMHVV Variants, you may also be interested in:

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!