Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Stefan Hahn <HAHN@***.EDU>
Subject: hmmmmm...
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 20:51:19 -0700
I'm not so sure about the way he said it, but Dodger has a point:
The breakup of America from the self-differentiating of it's minority groups (
and EVERYONE is a minority group) is imminent.
The idealistic "melting-pot" concept has always been myth. Look at the
genocide of the native american for your evidence of this hypocrisy. For that
matter, our beloved pilgrims came here because they were better than everyone
else. When each new wave of immigrants came over, they were stereotyped and
ghettoized with amazing speed; the U.S. is and always has been the most
divisive of countries, more along the lines of the "tossed salad" concept.
I mean, at least in South Africa the ruling minority openly persecuted
everyone else. They needed laws, armed troops, and police brutality to prevent
the current mix.

With this as background, advance to the 1950's, when America was the
best and the brightest and everyone in the neighborhood was a WASP. or else.
the KKK thrived and "Guess who's coming to dinner" was an outrage. in 1954 the
TV Dinner was invented and became the concept-du-jour for the nation's
population, segmented into their little compartments.
Today's "Black Pride" movement is even more militant than Malcolm X or
the Black Pnathers were. This is just one example, but the various minority
groups seem to have No Interest in jumping into a melting pot! Everybody wants
to remain separate, and they've been teaching their children for so long it's
become hereditary. (You don't wanna know what kind of hell I've gotten for
dating minorities in a supposedly-liberal state/community) As the recent Rodney
King rioting has shown, as the Anti-Gay initiatives in Oregon and Colorado and
soon where in Washington have shown, as the shooting of the Japanese teenage
tourist has shown, America does not want to stay together.

If current trends continue:
-Increasing divisiveness between racial/religious/sexual/political/etc. groups.
-Fewer voices/role models of unity, more of separation.
-Lack of leadership from a government that has lost the people's respect and
trust. (look at who votes and how many of them.)
-Lower-than-ever education levels.
-Increasing apathy (thank you, Cable TV! Even MORE mind-sucking boob tube!)
-Economic non-viability of the average citizen. (I'm graduating and going home
to live with the Parentals. Jobs that will support you, pay your rent, your
car, your health insurance, your car insurance, your utility bills, etc.etc.
etc. are few. Esp. w/o experience. And now 20% of us are living below the
poverty level. whee!)
...Then I expect something akin to the Cyberpunk world will come into
being.

In SR, the Awakening and other revolutionary elements changed the face
of society, but I doubt the Second American Revolution will come considering it
would require an intelligent leader(s), and those of us who are smart will be
silently taking over this rotting carcass in the megacorporations.
(EX: Why did they bother breaking up Ma Bell? look at what Bell
Atlantic has done since then!)
Therefore (Still with me? Good!) when the bottom drops out, hopefully
not soon, we'll be safe in our ivory towers connected by the MatrixNet. Profit
will hold the country together and keep that disturbing unrest down. Wouldn't
want to dirupt business, now would we? Businesses will take better care of
their employees, not because they care, but because they don't want to see a
disgrutled postal worker show up at the office with an assault rifle again.
Let's hear it for big brother!

This Cynicism has been brought to you by Grendeltronics International,
serving the Apocalypse since 1972. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.

WITH ORION'S SWORD THE HUNTER AROSE AND CONQUERED THE WORLD WITH FURY AND GRACE
/ \
Hahn@***.edu (\ /)
\ O /
IN HIM WAS I BORN, IN HIM SHALL I DIE, IN HIM DO I LOSE NAME, STATION, AND FACE
Message no. 2
From: Ahern T Stephan <maxim@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:04:55 -0500
You know, maybe a few years as a Communist country would cure us of many
of our 'problems'.

--
Ahern T. Stephan
maxim@*******.mankato.msus.edu

"Artificial Intelligence Beats Real Stupidity"
Message no. 3
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:58:27 -0500
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, Ahern T Stephan wrote:

> You know, maybe a few years as a Communist country would cure us of many
> of our 'problems'.

Withouth butting heads about political ideaologies, the problem is that
in the U.S., hte power is held by those with money (the drawback of a
capitalistic society). Those with money (and thus power) are NOT going to
give it up without a fight. Witness the problems with getting socialized
medicine ("Hey, I don't want to pay for preventive care!")

I don't want to pass opinion on what form of government is good or bad
(and I hope this doesn't reduce itself to a pointless flamewar about
that), just pointing out impracticalities.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 4
From: the holy Entombed <rasputin@***.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 13:06:33 -0400
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> give it up without a fight. Witness the problems with getting socialized
> medicine ("Hey, I don't want to pay for preventive care!")

Who wants socialized medicine? America is a world leader in preventive
medicine, due mainly to access to the latest breakthroughs in medical
technology.

As an example, look at the Hillary Health Care farce. If the plan is so
good, why are she and her husband excluded from having to take part
(excludes Congress, too, I believe... and who's voting on it?)??

Me, I like being able to choose my doctor...


______________________________________________________________
the }} Rasputin@***.umd.edu--personal }
holy }} rpgsrun@***.gwu.edu --Shadowrun RPG Area Manager (incomplete)}
Entombed }}________________--Finger Rasputin for p&p--___________________}

GEEK ||| GAT d(++)-- p---@ c+ l- u--- e* m+(--) s+/ |||
CODE ||| n- h-- f++ g- w(+++) t+ r+(++) y++(*) |||
Message no. 5
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.COM>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:36:57 -0400
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, Ahern T Stephan wrote:

> You know, maybe a few years as a Communist country would cure us of many
> of our 'problems'.
>
Communists are all the same. *grin*
Actually, this was a pet theory of mine for a while -- here in the
US, most people correlate Communism with the former USSR (the evil reds!)
In theory, Communism (as described by Karl Marx) looks like a great
system. Unfortunately, it doesn't (or, at least, isn't likely to) work
with large groups of people -- like anything bigger than a mid-sized town.
Personally, I prefer Internet-style anarchy, where if you fuck up
everybody tells you so, and if you don't then you'll get along great.

/-----------------\
| Jai Tao | "Information is the currency of democracy."
| jdfalk@****.com | -Thomas Jefferson
\-----------------/
Message no. 6
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 13:52:34 -0500
>You know, maybe a few years as a Communist country would cure us of many
>of our 'problems'.


Trading one set of problems for another is hardly a solution.

Matt
Message no. 7
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 14:12:56 -0500
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, the holy Entombed wrote:

> Who wants socialized medicine? America is a world leader in preventive
> medicine, due mainly to access to the latest breakthroughs in medical
> technology.

...if you can afford it. Otherwise, you can't get preventive treatment,
or any treatment, until you have to go to the emergency room. THen the
costs are 100x more.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 8
From: Joshua James Harrison <harrij4@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 1994 13:44:24 -0400
Steve, I agree with you. It is very refreshing to know that I'm not the only
person who sees the direction this country is heading.

Don't get me wrong, we have a great country. America (despite all of the
problems) is one of the most prosperous nations in the world. We just have a
few... social problems. As Marilyn Schultz (mayor of Seattle, 2050) put it,
"We don't have any social problems a couple thousand troops couldn't solve.
Know where I can get some?" :-) :-) :-)

Anyway, I am cynical. I am a little annoyed at some of the shit that is going
around this country these days. I'm not a supporter of equal rights, I'm a
supporter of HUMAN rights, which in my mind, includes EVERYBODY, regardless of
whether your white, black, male, female, straight, gay, human, or troll. :-)

Yeah, its idealist, but what the frag? I can be a cynical idealist, can't I?


--
Josh Harrison | A Elbereth Gilthoniel | "The Hedgehog"
aka A.M. Hawke | o menel palan-diriel, | \ \ | / /
Internet: | le nallon si di'nguruthos! | \ \ | / /
harrij4@***.edu | A tiro nin, Fanuilos! | --- O O ---
------------------------------------------------------------| / C \
'Now come, you filth!' he cried. 'You've hurt my master, | / m\_/m \
you brute, and you'll pay for it. We're going on; but we'll |---------------
settle with you first. Come on, and taste it again!' - Sam, "The Two Towers"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GE/T/O d++(--) -p+ c+(++) l u e+ m+(-) s+/ !n h f+(*) !g w+@ t+@ r(+) y?
Message no. 9
From: A cohort's CoHort <cohort@******.CONNECTED.COM>
Subject: Re: hmmmmm...
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 03:52:43 -0700
On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 1994, the holy Entombed wrote:
> > Who wants socialized medicine? America is a world leader in preventive
> > medicine, due mainly to access to the latest breakthroughs in medical
> > technology.
> ...if you can afford it. Otherwise, you can't get preventive treatment,
> or any treatment, until you have to go to the emergency room. THen the
> costs are 100x more.
Umm, I do think you are wrong here. I have (and my roommates, too) been
treating myself, preventatively, for over 5 years now. Anyone can get
good, solid, preventative medicine if they have half a brain (which I
believe most of the people on this list have, at least - how would they
have gotten here otherwise?), all they need to do is a little bit of
reading on the subject.
I have not had to go to the hospital for anything less than internal
bleeding (long story - don't ask) since I started.

cohort@******.connected.com
-----=====-----
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
When all else fails, read the manual.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about hmmmmm..., you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.