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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 06:00:01 2001
I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the bad
guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside the
house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray thing, I
guess. Is this real technology?

Jane

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Andrew Norman)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 06:30:01 2001
Jane VR wrote:
>
> I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the bad
> guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside the
> house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray thing, I
> guess. Is this real technology?

I would have to say no ... IMHO of course.

Thinking about it ... for you to see the xray image you would need to have
an emitter placed behind the target.

Then of course I am assuming that it is xray ... it could be some weird
proton emission detector or something exotic like that.

-Andrew

--
"What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in Reason? how
infinite in faculty? in forme and mouing how expresse and
admirable? in Action, how like an Angel? in apprehension,
how like a God? the beauty of the world, the Parragon of
Animals;"
- Hamlet, Shakespeare
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 07:05:00 2001
> I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the
corner of my eye, and the bad guy has a scope on his
rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside the
house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some
kind of X-ray thing, I guess. Is this real technology?
> Jane

Oh, my, dearie me, no.

:)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

____________________________________________________________
Nokia Game is on again.
Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Greg York)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 08:20:02 2001
There is equipment similar to that but not exactly the same. It is not
outside the realm of possibility for that scope to be available in 2060

Coyote


>From: "Jane VR" <kadjari@*******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: hollywood technology
>Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:59:18 +0000
>
>I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the
>bad
>guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside the
>house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray thing, I
>guess. Is this real technology?
>
>Jane
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>


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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 09:50:02 2001
At 10:59 AM 11/2/2001 +0000, Jane VR wrote:
>I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the
>bad guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside
>the house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray
>thing, I guess. Is this real technology?

I would say no.

I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be x-ray technology. The scope would have
to have it's own emitter, and any x-rays that made it through the walls of
the building, and then bounced off the bones of a person, probably wouldn't
be able to make it back out through the walls to be detected by the scope.

You could theoretically use magnetic resonance technology to let you see
through walls, but as far as I know that would require equipment the size
of a semi. A scope would be *way* to small, IMHO.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
--
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 11:15:00 2001
On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 07:46:23 -0700
Graht <davidb@****.imcprint.com> wrote:

> You could theoretically use magnetic resonance technology to let you see
> through walls, but as far as I know that would require equipment the size
> of a semi. A scope would be *way* to small, IMHO.

I always believed that was a Hollywood depiction of an ultrasound scope...


--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 13:00:30 2001
According to Jane VR, on Fri, 02 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...

> I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the
> bad guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside
> the house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray
> thing, I guess. Is this real technology?

No :) It sounds a lot like the airport weapon detector scene from Total
Recall, except now it's rifle-mounted.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Come down here and I'll show you the wrong way.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 16:05:01 2001
> I'm watching 'Eraser' (Arnie movie) out of the corner of my eye, and the
bad
> guy has a scope on his rifle(?) that lets him see the people inside the
> house. They look like green skeletons, so it's some kind of X-ray thing, I
> guess. Is this real technology?
>
> Jane

I'd assumed it was a thermo-imaging sensor (cf: Blue Thunder) with a
computer-enhanced display.

--Wally
http://home.earthlink.net/~stormknight/
Contact me on ICQ at UIN# 163454
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Fri Nov 2 18:35:01 2001
>From: Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>

>
> I always believed that was a Hollywood depiction of an ultrasound
>scope...
>

Does ultrasound see through walls?

Jane


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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sat Nov 3 05:30:10 2001
According to Jane VR, on Sat, 03 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...

> Does ultrasound see through walls?

No; ultrasound is basically what in nautical terms is called a sonar, but
adapted to be carried on a weapon. The sound waves bounce off the first
thing they encounter, so everything solid is opaque to them. Essentially,
when you use an ultrasound "sight" (a bit of a misnomer, that) what you get
is an image that shows how far away from you everything is.

And to clear up another Hollywood-induced misunderstanding: thermal imagers
also don't see through walls; in fact they have serious trouble seeing
through glass. The only way these things can detect what's going on on the
other side of a wall is when something hot on the other side stands still
against (or very close to) the wall for long enough to heat it up. A person
leaning against a door for a while, for example, or probably a refrigerator
will show up, but someone walking through the room (as per Blue Thunder)
won't.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Come down here and I'll show you the wrong way.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sat Nov 3 06:10:01 2001
Andrew Norman writes:

> Then of course I am assuming that it is xray ... it could be some weird
> proton emission detector or something exotic like that.

<grin> Weird, perhaps, but probably not a proton emission detector. Emitting
protons is rather, er, uncommon, and generating protons with enough energy
to actually penetrate and do anything tends to require more energy and
expense than running a nuclear reactor.

Graht writes:

> I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be x-ray technology. The scope would
> have to have it's own emitter, and any x-rays that made it through the
> walls of the building, and then bounced off the bones of a person, probably
> wouldn't be able to make it back out through the walls to be detected by
> the scope.

X-Rays don't tend to "bounce" off many things organic (though they do bounce
off fairly perfect crystalline arrays of atoms). An X-Ray (tends to) pass
through whatever it's targetted at, and in the case of people, tends to be
adsorbed by bones. The imaging gear is on the _other_ side of the person,
and it picks up the X-Rays that have travelled through the person. So to do
this with a scope, you'd either need an X-ray emitting scope, and a detector
on the other side that would then relay the image you your scope again; or an
X-Ray detecting scope and an emitter on the other side. Neither of which is
practicable... ;-)

> You could theoretically use magnetic resonance technology to let you see
> through walls, but as far as I know that would require equipment the size
> of a semi. A scope would be *way* to small, IMHO.

Cool idea, though. Maybe it would be possible to mount it on a tank or
something... ;-)

Gurth writes:

> > > From: Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
> > >
> > > I always believed that was a Hollywood depiction of an ultrasound
> > > scope...
>
> According to Jane VR, on Sat, 03 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...
>
> > Does ultrasound see through walls?
>
> No; ultrasound is basically what in nautical terms is called a sonar, but
> adapted to be carried on a weapon. The sound waves bounce off the first
> thing they encounter, so everything solid is opaque to them. Essentially,
> when you use an ultrasound "sight" (a bit of a misnomer, that) what you get

> is an image that shows how far away from you everything is.

Actually, ultrasound imaging can be used to test for defects inside ceramic
and metallic products. You put your product (eg a heat treated vehicle
engine component) under the ultrasound emitter, and bounce ultrasounds
through it. Defects such as cracks and inclusions in the product scatter the
ultrasonic waves more than the bulk material (due to interfacial effects if
I recall correctly), and it is thus possible to generate a picture of what
the inside of a completely solid, hard, dense object looks like.

I would think that it _might_ be possible, if you chose your sound
frequencies carefully, to use ultrasound to "see through walls" and generate
an image of what was on the other side. You know how things sound weird when
you're under water? The sound waves from the air above still penetrate the
water (as would ultraound waves), they just behave a bit differently once
they do... Other materials that are solid would probably have a reduced
capacity to transmit sound waves, but it may just be possible to create some
sort of imaging system that would be able to see through thin intervening
material, especially if that material was homogenous and did not scatter the
ultrasounds too much. Thus seeing through household walls would probably be
out, but seeing through simple sheet metal walls on a warehouse may be
possible.

> And to clear up another Hollywood-induced misunderstanding: thermal imagers
> also don't see through walls; in fact they have serious trouble seeing
> through glass. The only way these things can detect what's going on on the
> other side of a wall is when something hot on the other side stands still
> against (or very close to) the wall for long enough to heat it up. A person
> leaning against a door for a while, for example, or probably a refrigerator
> will show up, but someone walking through the room (as per Blue Thunder)
> won't.

I have been told that near IR penetrates glass and other transparent
material about as well as normal light does. Is this true?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sat Nov 3 13:55:01 2001
According to Damion Milliken, on Sat, 03 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...

> I would think that it _might_ be possible, if you chose your sound
> frequencies carefully, to use ultrasound to "see through walls" and
> generate an image of what was on the other side. You know how things
> sound weird when you're under water?

Nope. I can't swim, and hope never to get underwater if I can at all help it :)

> I have been told that near IR penetrates glass and other transparent
> material about as well as normal light does. Is this true?

I think so, but I'm not quite sure... Still, AFAIK for game purposes I guess
it's easiest to say that glass is intransparent.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Come down here and I'll show you the wrong way.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sun Nov 4 13:10:02 2001
I know I'm a bit late for this one, and it's a little bit OT... But it's still
hollywoodish.

I saw 'The One' this weekend, and several fight scenes have HEAVY usage of slow motion and
'bullet time'. It got me thinking, is this how a heavily reflex enhanced character would
see the world once his cyber kicks in? Would the world just slow down for him for seconds,
or tens of seconds at a time? (even if this is not the case, it was damn cool to see).

Also, speaking of the movie Eraser, in that same scene with the x-ray scope, while Arnie's
in the garage, an agent tosses a grenade in the room that hovers about 3 feet off of the
ground, and spits a cloud of nail-like flechettes around the room... Are there any rules
for an offensive flechette grenade, such as this?
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sun Nov 4 13:40:01 2001
Gurth writes:

> Nope. I can't swim, and hope never to get underwater if I can at all help
> it :)

But what about that nice looking beach that's about 4 blocks from where you
live?

> > I have been told that near IR penetrates glass and other transparent
> > material about as well as normal light does. Is this true?
>
> I think so, but I'm not quite sure... Still, AFAIK for game purposes I guess
> it's easiest to say that glass is intransparent.

Huhn? Glass is _what_?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sun Nov 4 21:15:07 2001
> > I would think that it _might_ be possible, if you
chose your sound frequencies carefully, to use
ultrasound to "see through walls" and generate an
image of what was on the other side. You know how
things sound weird when you're under water?
>
> Nope. I can't swim, and hope never to get underwater
if I can at all help it :)
<snipt!(TM)>
> Gurth@******.nl -

Hold on, Gurth...you mean to tell me you live in
Ho...the Netherlands - Dyke Central, as it were ;) -
and you don't know how to swim?

Isn't that like, uh...Dutch Roulette, shall we say? ;)

Hey, let me guess - you take showers, not baths,
right? ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Kesh)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Sun Nov 4 22:30:01 2001
On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:12:05 -0500, espolo@**********.com wrote:

>I know I'm a bit late for this one, and it's a little bit OT... But it's
>still hollywoodish.
>
>I saw 'The One' this weekend, and several fight scenes have HEAVY usage
>of slow motion and 'bullet time'. It got me thinking, is this how a
>heavily reflex enhanced character would see the world once his cyber
>kicks in? Would the world just slow down for him for seconds, or tens of
>seconds at a time? (even if this is not the case, it was damn cool to see).

That's how I've always played it. Their reflexes are so fast that, while
everything still takes place in real-time, the character percieves it as
slowed down. That's what allows them to make so many actions in such a
short amount of time.
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Mon Nov 5 05:40:03 2001
According to Damion Milliken, on Sun, 04 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...

> > Nope. I can't swim, and hope never to get underwater if I can at all
> > help it :)
>
> But what about that nice looking beach that's about 4 blocks from where
> you live?

A beach is nothing special when you live next to it, IMHO (lots of people
living here would disagree with that, though); the last time I was at the
beach must have been when Dvixen wanted to go and look for "sand dollars."
That's about 3 1/2 years ago...

> > I think so, but I'm not quite sure... Still, AFAIK for game purposes I
> > guess it's easiest to say that glass is intransparent.
>
> Huhn? Glass is _what_?

Isn't that an English word? Not transparent to IR, I meant.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Come down here and I'll show you the wrong way.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Mon Nov 5 05:40:05 2001
According to Rand Ratinac, on Mon, 05 Nov 2001 the word on the street was...

> Hold on, Gurth...you mean to tell me you live in
> Ho...the Netherlands - Dyke Central, as it were ;) -
> and you don't know how to swim?

Yep. If you must know (because I can tell you're wondering), learning to
swim is pretty much mandatory at school here. But if you happen to be
suffering from a skin condition that gets worse on contact with chlorinated
water at the time... And since I haven't found that I _need_ to be able to
swim for anything, I haven't learned to since.

> Isn't that like, uh...Dutch Roulette, shall we say? ;)

<confidence style="radiate: area">I have faith in our sea
defenses.<confidence>

> Hey, let me guess - you take showers, not baths,
> right? ;)

There's no room in this house for a bath tub, so yeah, I would have to,
wouldn't I? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Come down here and I'll show you the wrong way.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Mon Nov 5 09:10:01 2001
At 11:18 05.11.2001 +0100, Gurth wrote:

<snip>

> > > I think so, but I'm not quite sure... Still, AFAIK for game purposes I
> > > guess it's easiest to say that glass is intransparent.
> >
> > Huhn? Glass is _what_?
>
>Isn't that an English word? Not transparent to IR, I meant.

opaque? ;)

Arclight
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Greg York)
Subject: Hollywood Technology
Date: Mon Nov 5 10:00:01 2001
The principles behind the Xray scope are quite simple to emulate in real
life. Bats and Dolphins use sound/sonar waves to transmit a signal through
a substance with a low density (air/water)and bounce off a substance with a
higher density. If you increase the frequency of the transmitted signal you
can vary the density of the objects it will penetrate and bounce off. Some
building materials such as wood plastic and gyprock commonly used in
construction today have a fairly low density in comparison to metal and
bone. Using microwaves in short bursts you can generate a reasonably human
shaped image through an average house wall. As long as the object you are
trying to locate is of a denser material than the material you are trying to
look through it can be done. Some areas where this is commonly used are
geological surveying, forensic scanning, military targeting systems and
advanced recon vehicles. Some of these sensor systems are no bigger than a
breadbox so I can well imagine them being scope sized in 2060.
Other technologies in common use today are battletac, FDDM, Ruthenium and
smartlink. A good source to read about these advanced toys in an
unclassified format would be "Janes Defence". They even have a web site.

Coyote
Advanced Rigger Hardware Specialist

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Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ahrain Drigar)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Mon Nov 5 10:20:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <espolo@**********.com>
Subject: Re: hollywood technology


> I know I'm a bit late for this one, and it's a little bit OT... But it's
still hollywoodish.
>
> I saw 'The One' this weekend, and several fight scenes have HEAVY usage of
slow motion and
>'bullet time'. It got me thinking, is this how a heavily reflex enhanced
character would see the world
>once his cyber kicks in? Would the world just slow down for him for
seconds, or tens of seconds
>at a time? (even if this is not the case, it was damn cool to see).

This is how I've always seen it. Actually a good paragraph or two about
heightened reflexes would be (I know it not a SR book) from Rifts: Juicer
Uprising. Can't remember the pages right now, but it's how having jacked up
reflexes is like from a first person perspective.

Ahrain
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (bluedragon7)
Subject: hollywood technology
Date: Thu Nov 8 14:50:01 2001
from Gurth:
> And to clear up another Hollywood-induced misunderstanding:
> thermal imagers
> also don't see through walls; in fact they have serious trouble seeing
> through glass. The only way these things can detect what's going
> on on the
> other side of a wall is when something hot on the other side stands still
> against (or very close to) the wall for long enough to heat it
> up. A person
> leaning against a door for a while, for example, or probably a
> refrigerator
> will show up, but someone walking through the room (as per Blue Thunder)
> won't.

actually i have seen prototypes of a IR-Camera in a Lab to see a not very
hot copymachine standing about 1 meter behind a wide and strong brickwall at
a distance of 50 meters (and to tell you the amount of pollutants in the air
on the way)
Detection of people depends on speed of movement, but staying within one
squaremeter for about 10 seconds will get you a signal, so a guard behind a
wall will be seen, even if he leans not against the wall.

bluedragon7

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about hollywood technology, you may also be interested in:

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