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Message no. 1
From: Mr Bob Sagittarian <habelmon@********.CS.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:47:40 +0930
My Personal Gripe


Ok, here's my gripe that belongs in the Shadowrun area.


Situation 1: I'm doing a run and I have to keep bailing everybody else out all of the
time, because they're such pathetic liars. Here's me, lying blatantly
through my teeth everytime a lone star asks me a question ( and most
importantly,getting away with it), and then my associate gets the evil
eye and crumbles.

Situation 2: Another player wants to you a public telecom. Someone's already using it,
so he sticks an Ares predator in his knee joint. Then we end up having to
bust him out of jail for illegal possesion of a cyberdeck.

Situation 3: I'm GMing a game of Shadowrun, and having been a PARANOIA player in the
past, I decided to give every player an ulterior motive. Two of them
confessed and the other two totally ignored their extra run. Naturally,
they had to be hunted to get a reaction.


My point is essentially that your average player (or at least the ones I know) is
about as amoral as Jesus Christ. Personally, I can do without Honest Joe's in my
group. Sure, I'll admit that an honest shadowrunner can be amusing, but a partyful?
I'd rather drown in battery acid.

--

"Today is the greatest
Day I've ever known
Can't live for tomorrow,
Tomorrow's much too long
I'll burn my eyes out
Before I get out"
- "Today", Smashing Pumpkins

Dr. Stupid
habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 2
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 13:51:54 -0400
On Fri, 9 Jun 1995, Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:

> My point is essentially that your average player (or at least
> the ones I know) is about as amoral as Jesus Christ. Personally, I can
> do without Honest Joe's in my group. Sure, I'll admit that an honest
> shadowrunner can be amusing, but a partyful? I'd rather drown in
> battery acid.

That's odd. I have exactly the oposite problem. Pretty much all
of my players are disloyal, dishonest, ultra-paranoid, sociopathic lunatics
that will kill each other and anybody else at the drop of a hat.
They'll sell out for little or nothing and then sell out those they
sold out to if they get the chance. Kind of aggravating for party
motivation, but boy does it add that gritty ambience!

Marc
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:30:45 -0400
>That's odd. I have exactly the oposite problem. Pretty much all
>of my players are disloyal, dishonest, ultra-paranoid, sociopathic
>lunatics that will kill each other and anybody else at the drop of a
>hat. They'll sell out for little or nothing and then sell out those
>they sold out to if they get the chance. Kind of aggravating for party
>motivation, but boy does it add that gritty ambience!

Gee, it would seem I am playing the wrong type of character for our
group, then! ;)


Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: Brent Fisher <tsmu@*****.LSA.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:19:22 -0400
On Fri, 9 Jun 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> That's odd. I have exactly the oposite problem. Pretty much all
> of my players are disloyal, dishonest, ultra-paranoid, sociopathic lunatics
> that will kill each other and anybody else at the drop of a hat.
> They'll sell out for little or nothing and then sell out those they
> sold out to if they get the chance. Kind of aggravating for party
> motivation, but boy does it add that gritty ambience!
>
> Marc
>
Don't forget that it also adds to the blood, guts and drama karma <grin>.


Brent Fisher.
Message no. 5
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:17:22 -0400
On Fri, 9 Jun 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> That's odd. I have exactly the oposite problem. Pretty much all
> of my players are disloyal, dishonest, ultra-paranoid, sociopathic lunatics
> that will kill each other and anybody else at the drop of a hat.
> They'll sell out for little or nothing and then sell out those they
> sold out to if they get the chance. Kind of aggravating for party
> motivation, but boy does it add that gritty ambience!
>
> Marc
>

It wasn't the drop of a hat that caused us do do that to the rigger. It
was him dropping a dime on us, and my character subsequently almost
getting killed by the local authorities. I think that easily justifies
drive-by shootings with assault rifles. Branted, maybee cutting his head
off afterwards was a little gruesome, but...
Besides, I think our state of paranoia has a little something to do with
things like large sealed crates...
Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 17:43:55 +0200
> Situation 1: I'm doing a run and I have to keep bailing everybody else out all of
the
> time, because they're such pathetic liars. Here's me, lying blatantly
> through my teeth everytime a lone star asks me a question ( and most
> importantly,getting away with it), and then my associate gets the
evil
> eye and crumbles.

Thats what skills are for. If your players find it hard to roleplay bulshiting
someone, make them roll a negotiations(fasttalk) skill.

> Situation 2: Another player wants to you a public telecom. Someone's already using
it,
> so he sticks an Ares predator in his knee joint. Then we end up
having to
> bust him out of jail for illegal possesion of a cyberdeck.

That problem should take care of itself after a coupla nights in the slamur (sp?).

> Situation 3: I'm GMing a game of Shadowrun, and having been a PARANOIA player in
the
> past, I decided to give every player an ulterior motive. Two of them
> confessed and the other two totally ignored their extra run.
Naturally,
> they had to be hunted to get a reaction.

It seems to me that your players are simply a bit green. Thats not bad,
experience will catch up with them sooner or later :)

> My point is essentially that your average player (or at least the ones I
know) is
> about as amoral as Jesus Christ. Personally, I can do without Honest Joe's in my
> group. Sure, I'll admit that an honest shadowrunner can be amusing, but a partyful?
> I'd rather drown in battery acid.

Consider yourself fortunate. I am stuck with a bunch of lying, backstabing, sadistic
bastards who would kill a cabi rather than pay him :)

--
GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 7
From: Mr Bob Sagittarian <habelmon@********.CS.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 18:25:56 +0930
>
> > Situation 2: Another player wants to you a public telecom.
Someone's already using it, so he sticks an Ares
predator in his knee joint. Then we end up having
to bust him out of jail for illegal possesion of
a cyberdeck.
>
> That problem should take care of itself after a coupla nights
in the slamur (sp?).

Yeah, well, there's always the problem of retaining the
old cyberdeck now isn't there? Luckily, he got a job after that
session and disappeared. Of course, by then we'd already got
his deck back. (yay) And its "slammer"

> > My point is essentially that your average player (or
at least the ones I know) is about as amoral as Jesus Christ.
Personally, I can do without Honest Joe's in my group. Sure, I'll
admit that an honest shadowrunner can be amusing, but a partyful?
I'd rather drown in battery acid.
>
> Consider yourself fortunate. I am stuck with a bunch of lying
, backstabing, sadistic bastards who would kill a cabi rather
than pay him :)

Well, I find that its one hell of a lot easier to tone
down some sadistci homicidal bastards than to convince newbies
to be nasty evil scum.

Let's face it, being a nasty evil scum is actually a
roleplaying challenge, (unless of course, you're naturally a
nasty evil scum), much moreso than being all sunshine and light.

Well, it's nice that some people agree that
Shadowrunners are required to be a bit nasty and deceiving.
I have now developed a new strategy to encourage supreme
nastiness from my players. Have just started a new setup with
all characters belonging to either yakuza or mafia and both have
seperate interests on the same mission. The really amusing thing
is that one of them is actually a Lone Star plant. Oh what
twisted webs we weave.

--

"Today is the greatest
Day I've ever known
Can't live for tomorrow,
Tomorrow's much too long
I'll burn my eyes out
Before I get out"
- "Today", Smashing Pumpkins

Mr. Bob Sagittarian
habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 8
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honesty and Incompetence. Shoot them all.
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:12:48 -0400
On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:

> Well, it's nice that some people agree that
> Shadowrunners are required to be a bit nasty and deceiving.
> I have now developed a new strategy to encourage supreme
> nastiness from my players. Have just started a new setup with
> all characters belonging to either yakuza or mafia and both have
> seperate interests on the same mission. The really amusing thing
> is that one of them is actually a Lone Star plant. Oh what
> twisted webs we weave.

Ye gads! This is sounding more and more like *my* campaign.
Congratulations on your weaving of webs.

Marc

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