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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Lantrip)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Tue Aug 7 13:55:01 2001
On Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:22 AM, Gurth [SMTP:Gurth@******.nl] wrote:
> I think the best way to do Horrors in SR, if FASA really would have wanted
> them in the game, would have been to do a kind of SR spin-off in what I'll,
> for want of a better term, call an alternate universe.

In a way, it will be an alternate universe, unless the Horrors become a central
plot that every "Average Joe" knows about. As long as they keep it well-hidden
in the shadows and don't include them in every run from here to judgement day,
it should be okay.

I mean, when it comes out, my group will be well into the middle of a shadowrun
campaign. It won't change my campaign any. I might run *another* campaign that
deals solely with the Horrors (too much H.P. Lovecraft for me, I'm afraid), but
in the "current" one, it's not like they're gonna break into an MCT facility
and find Horrors lurking about (though maybe a few with the lowercase 'h').
Business as usual...

--J
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hekate Trismegista)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Tue Aug 7 19:45:01 2001
Jason Lantrip wrote:
>
> deals solely with the Horrors (too much H.P. Lovecraft for me, I'm afraid), but

Horrors bear a scant resemblance to anything HP Lovecraft wrote.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Wed Aug 8 06:25:13 2001
According to Jason Lantrip, on Tue, 07 Aug 2001 the word on the street was...

> In a way, it will be an alternate universe, unless the Horrors become a central
> plot that every "Average Joe" knows about. As long as they keep it
well-hidden
> in the shadows and don't include them in every run from here to judgement day,
> it should be okay.

What I meant was to have an SR game with the Horrors out in the open (as
they seemed to be heading toward up until about five years ago). This would
best be handled as a separate game or game setting, if you ask me, because
otherwise it'd alienate many of the players who want "pure" SR.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Tot straks en poppelepee maar weer.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hekate Trismegista)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Wed Aug 8 06:50:03 2001
Gurth wrote:
>
> What I meant was to have an SR game with the Horrors out in the open (as
> they seemed to be heading toward up until about five years ago). This would
> best be handled as a separate game or game setting, if you ask me, because
> otherwise it'd alienate many of the players who want "pure" SR.

I never received the impression that the use of horrors in previous SR
materials implied that the game was heading toward a "Horrors out in the
open" game. I got the impression that they were an occasional-use
antagonist, much like the rest of the antagonists in the setting. The
problem wasn't (to me) saturation of Horrors in the setting, but
saturation of magical threats in the setting. I mean, I like insect
spirits, toxic shamans, and Azzie blood mages well enough, but do we
really need Ysrthgrathe and Verjigorm hanging around? :)

If by "out in the open" you mean "comparable in visibility to the insect
spirits," then nevermind.
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Lantrip)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Wed Aug 8 11:25:02 2001
On Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:43 PM, Hekate Trismegista
[SMTP:res0idv9@*******.net] wrote:
> Horrors bear a scant resemblance to anything HP Lovecraft wrote.

Scant physical resemblance, yes. As to what they are, well...they're creatures
that we would consider "evil" who want nothing more than to destroy the world
as "we" know it. They can be called upon by those who practice magic (and tend
to destroy those people in the long run). No one knows very much about them and
their minds are alien to "us". As far as the underlying theme behind the
Horrors, there's a great deal of resemblance between what H.P. Lovecraft had to
say and the Horrors.

--J
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Lantrip)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Wed Aug 8 11:30:03 2001
On Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:50 AM, Gurth [SMTP:Gurth@******.nl] wrote:
> What I meant was to have an SR game with the Horrors out in the open (as
> they seemed to be heading toward up until about five years ago). This would
> best be handled as a separate game or game setting, if you ask me, because
> otherwise it'd alienate many of the players who want "pure" SR.

Ah. In that case, I totally agree with you. And it would destory the "flavor"
of the Horrors (and leave a different sort of taste in my mouth, anyway).

--J
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hekate Trismegista)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Wed Aug 8 20:10:03 2001
Jason Lantrip wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:43 PM, Hekate Trismegista
> [SMTP:res0idv9@*******.net] wrote:
> > Horrors bear a scant resemblance to anything HP Lovecraft wrote.
>
> Scant physical resemblance, yes.

Actually, their phyisical appearance is where the resemblance begins and
ends. Several varieties of horrors as well as the more powerful unique
horrors have very Mythos-esque looks.

> As to what they are, well...they're creatures
> that we would consider "evil" who want nothing more than to destroy the
world
> as "we" know it. They can be called upon by those who practice magic (and
tend
> to destroy those people in the long run). No one knows very much about them and
> their minds are alien to "us". As far as the underlying theme behind the
> Horrors, there's a great deal of resemblance between what H.P. Lovecraft had to
> say and the Horrors.

Only in a superficial sense. Lovecraft's Great Old Ones and Elder Gods
were horrific mainly because they didn't *care*. Their disregard of
humanity was impersonal. This applies to the various races (Deep Ones,
Great Race of Yith, etc.). You didn't find entities in Lovecraft's
horror who would torment people across the world for the sake of
tormenting them, or for the sake of nourishment. Cthulhu sends
nightmares and causes pain just because it exists. It could care less
that it causes these things because the victims of its psychic and rare
physical mayhem are beneath its notice. Ysrthgrathe (for a
counterexample) actively seeks out sentient beings to torment and even
has a favorite victim he follows across several *millennia*.

If a horror had the ability to take a name-giver body, it would. It
would force the name-giver whose body it assumed watch it destroy the
name-giver's life, family, friends, home, etc. One of the Great Race of
Yith simply swaps bodies with a human and then uses that body to
research humanity for several years. The human's memory is (mostly)
wiped and his body returned to him after it's over. He's left with
amnesia and evidence he traveled the world rather aimlessly. The Great
Race member doesn't really care that much about how the human reacts to
this violation. It's true that they try to minimize the harm, and the
memory wipe occasionally leaves evidence that bubbles up in nightmares,
but it's not a deliberate attempt to inflict harm or distress.

To break it down in simple terms:

Lovecraft's creations rarely notice humanity. If they do take notice,
it's an incidental side effect. Humanity's time will come to an end, not
because there is any cosmic order bent on humanity's destruction, but
because it's just going to happen just as it's happened to every other
race to inhabit Earth before humanity. This is an essential part of
Lovecraft's horror - that humanity ultimately doesn't matter.

Horrors actively seek to torment humanity. They exist to cause pain and
suffering. Their motives are very clear and decipherable. They are not
uninvolved, disinterested cosmic beings for whom humanity is a flash in
the pan.

It's all in the motive.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zixx)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Thu Aug 9 10:05:04 2001
Gurth wrote:
> > In a way, it will be an alternate universe, unless the Horrors
> > become a central plot that every "Average Joe" knows about. As
> > long as they keep it well-hidden in the shadows and don't include
> > them in every run from here to judgement day, it should be okay.
>
> What I meant was to have an SR game with the Horrors out in the
> open (as they seemed to be heading toward up until about five years
> ago). This would best be handled as a separate game or game
> setting, if you ask me, because otherwise it'd alienate many of the
> players who want "pure" SR.

And I guess it would be a problem to convince the Horrors to keep a
low profile. IIRC that's not their SOP :)

Zixx
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Lantrip)
Subject: Horrors and SR
Date: Thu Aug 9 10:25:01 2001
On Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:05 AM, Zixx [SMTP:zixx@****.org] wrote:
> And I guess it would be a problem to convince the Horrors to keep a
> low profile. IIRC that's not their SOP :)

Heh. I think what he's aiming for is more along the lines of "I hope it doesn't
turn into a worldwide version of Chicago's bugfest".

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