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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: How APDS works (was Re: Dikote Bores)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:08:13 +0100
Josh Higham said on 22:34/11 Aug 97...

> I don't think that would be all that great: it would probably keep the
> sabot in one piece, and prevent any expansion, which would create a small
> clean wound, as opposed to the drek that a misformed lump of lead would
> cause.

You want a hard material to make penetrators of anyway, which means little
deformation.

> I gotta say that I don't know exactly how APDS works, but I think what I
> said applies to most rounds (the mecury in bullet expanding rounds might
> still work, depending on how strong dikote is).

The idea behind APDS is very simple, really. Take a small-caliber round,
put lightweight packing around it, and fire it from a larger-caliber
barrel. About 20 years ago the US Army experimented with firing 4.32 mm
bullets from modified 5.56 mm rifles (XM19 and M16). An APDS round has a
much higher muzzle velocity because the bullet is lighter and has less
air resistance (the 4.32 mm APDS rounds reached 2000 m/s against 1000 m/s
for 5.56 mm), and therefore has a higher penetration.

However, the only weapons actually using APDS today are automatic cannons
(25 mm and up) and tank guns, plus there some APDS shotgun slugs I
believe, though I'm not sure on that last one.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...who hates heatwaves
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: How APDS works (was Re: Dikote Bores)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:11:50 -0400
On Tuesday, August 12, 1997 08:08, Gurth[SMTP:gurth@******.NL] wrote:
> The idea behind APDS is very simple, really. Take a small-caliber round,
> put lightweight packing around it, and fire it from a larger-caliber
> barrel. About 20 years ago the US Army experimented with firing 4.32 mm
> bullets from modified 5.56 mm rifles (XM19 and M16). An APDS round has a
> much higher muzzle velocity because the bullet is lighter and has less
> air resistance (the 4.32 mm APDS rounds reached 2000 m/s against 1000 m/s
> for 5.56 mm), and therefore has a higher penetration.
>
> However, the only weapons actually using APDS today are automatic cannons
> (25 mm and up) and tank guns, plus there some APDS shotgun slugs I
> believe, though I'm not sure on that last one.

Saboted shotguns rounds can be bought (mail order) in the USA from an outfit called Blammo
Ammo.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 3
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: How APDS works (was Re: Dikote Bores)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:13:48 +0100
In message <199708121106.NAA03397@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> writes
>However, the only weapons actually using APDS today are automatic cannons
>(25 mm and up) and tank guns, plus there some APDS shotgun slugs I
>believe, though I'm not sure on that last one.

Nope. There's a SLAP (Saboted Light Armoured Penetrator) round available
in .50BMG and popular with US vehicle crews: it'll kill BMPs and the
like quite handily. Also works well from a .50cal sniper rifle.

The Mark 15 Phalanx CIWS uses a 20mm APDS round (previously DU rounds,
now tungsten). 20mm APDS has been around a while and is widely used.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 4
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: How APDS works (was Re: Dikote Bores)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:06:19 -0400
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Josh Higham said on 22:34/11 Aug 97...
>
> > I don't think that would be all that great: it would probably keep the
> > sabot in one piece, and prevent any expansion, which would create a small
> > clean wound, as opposed to the drek that a misformed lump of lead would
> > cause.
>
> You want a hard material to make penetrators of anyway, which means little
> deformation.

I forgot about this; the type of bullet you want depends on the
situation. If you are shooting at someone with body armor, you want a
hardened tip that can penetrate. However, if you are shooting at someone
without armor, you want a soft tip that will deform when it hits the
body, and create a much nastier wound.

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: How APDS works (was Re: Dikote Bores)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:24:01 +0100
Paul J. Adam said on 20:13/12 Aug 97...

> Nope. There's a SLAP (Saboted Light Armoured Penetrator) round available
> in .50BMG and popular with US vehicle crews: it'll kill BMPs and the
> like quite handily. Also works well from a .50cal sniper rifle.

Forgot about that one, yeah. Apart from .50 SLAP there isn't much in the
way of APDS-like small arms ammo, though.

> The Mark 15 Phalanx CIWS uses a 20mm APDS round (previously DU rounds,
> now tungsten). 20mm APDS has been around a while and is widely used.

And I didn't know about that one; the smallest-caliber APDS I'd heard of
is 25 mm KBA.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...who hates heatwaves
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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