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Message no. 1
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:30:00 PDT
Elves can die of lead poisoning at 500 ft/sec, paint and chrome poisoning,
loss of blood (8 or 9 pints).
Heart attacks with swords and axes.
Stokes- forward thrust, overhand chop.



Ricky
"It's not a question of being paranoid, the question
is are you paranoid enough"
-strange days
<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 2
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:48:20 -0700
I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Message no. 3
From: Simon Paul Stroud <s_sps4@*******.ITS.UNIMELB.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:50:53 +1000
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:

> I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
>
And I say if you want to get paranoid about millennia long plots, go
hassle the big worms Lofwyr and co.

Horus the nervous.
Message no. 4
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 18:10:16 -0700
There aren't as MANY dragons.

Besides, IMHO, dragons are cool and supposed to be nasty. Elves, well...
to some extent, but to me it smacks of something close to
"Aryans/or whatever are just a better race"; they're too close to
humankind for me to feel they deserve to be so exalted. Dragons are
like the massive primordial beast/dinosaur/monster thing; to be feared
but not worshipped.

And in FASAworld, the elves can kick the dragon's butts. There's something
wrong there, IMHO.

-E
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:58:27 +0930
Eve Forward wrote:
> And in FASAworld, the elves can kick the dragon's butts. There's something
> wrong there, IMHO.

Some incredibly powerful elves can kick dragon butt... Other slightly less
powerfulelves get kicked. At that level of power, it's not the species that
matters so much as magical ability.

Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 6
From: Niels Broberg <ncb@***.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:33:54 +0100
On fri, 13 oct Robert Watkins wrote :

>Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
>FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)

Hey ! Who says that Harlequin is the most powerful being alive ?? is this from
HB or just your own opinion ???


>
>--
> Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
> Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
> are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
> *** Finger me for my geek code ***
>
>
Niels Broberg - NCB@***.KU.DK

A mace in your face,
will make you race with haste,
to the nearest plastic surgeons place.
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:51:34 +0930
Niels Broberg wrote:
>
> On fri, 13 oct Robert Watkins wrote :
>
> >Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
> >FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)
>
> Hey ! Who says that Harlequin is the most powerful being alive ?? is this from
> HB or just your own opinion ???

From HB... "Harlequin is not the oldest being alive. Another [I think it's
a dragon, can't remember] claims that dubious honour. He is not even the
oldest of his generation. He is, however, the single most powerful being
alive".

It's in the character description at the back.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 8
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:11:24 GMT
Robert Watkins writes
>
> Some incredibly powerful elves can kick dragon butt... Other slightly less
> powerfulelves get kicked. At that level of power, it's not the species that
> matters so much as magical ability.
>
Mostly how much they have stacked it Pre prepared magic, In shadowrun
terms active locked magic and Ahchorings (detect drek add BIG barrier
type). It is very noticable that the ED characters are much better
with the 'mintutes duration' wizard spells running than without.

Mark
Message no. 9
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:39:28 -0400
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:
> I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

No, I say we make a deal with the Dragons, and feed the
pointy-eared snots to 'em.

After all, *I* personally think the Elves have been doing major
no-nos in the Shadowrun world.;)

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 10
From: carmen sbordone <sbordo16@******.NEWPALTZ.EDU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 12:32:37 -0400
>
> There aren't as MANY dragons.
>
> Besides, IMHO, dragons are cool and supposed to be nasty. Elves, well...
> to some extent, but to me it smacks of something close to
> "Aryans/or whatever are just a better race"; they're too close to
> humankind for me to feel they deserve to be so exalted. Dragons are
> like the massive primordial beast/dinosaur/monster thing; to be feared
> but not worshipped.
>

what do you mean elves can kick a dragon's butts? I'm confused.

> And in FASAworld, the elves can kick the dragon's butts. There's something
> wrong there, IMHO.
>
> -E
>
Message no. 11
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 23:02:32 PDT
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:
>
> I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
>
The problem with nuking them is the safety hazzard to whom ever is sent
to verify you got them all. On the other hand if carpet bomb with incneries and
defolents it is just as effective and there is no Radation hazard! :)

This is definatly not be kind to elf week. Wonderful is it not!! :)

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
Message no. 12
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:34:06 +0100
Robert Watkins wrote:
> Eve Forward wrote:
> > And in FASAworld, the elves can kick the dragon's butts. There's something
> > wrong there, IMHO.
>
> Some incredibly powerful elves can kick dragon butt... Other slightly less
> powerfulelves get kicked. At that level of power, it's not the species that
> matters so much as magical ability.

Well I generally agree, but when you really come down to it the 20-so
dice a dragon can call upon to resist combat spells (body) or the natural
2d6+reaction reflexes are not that small an advantage no ?
The thing is that such powerfull creatures no longer duke it up like
mere mortals do to settle their diffrences.

> Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
> FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)

I wouldnt put so much faith on that cover, after all its goal was to
hype you up wasnt it ?

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:57:33 +0930
Jani Fikouras wrote:
>
> Well I generally agree, but when you really come down to it the 20-so
> dice a dragon can call upon to resist combat spells (body) or the natural
> 2d6+reaction reflexes are not that small an advantage no ?

The 20 or so dice or nice, but a good enough initiate can get that as
well... besides, anyone with an ounce of sense would use willpower
targetting spells. :)

> The thing is that such powerfull creatures no longer duke it up like
> mere mortals do to settle their diffrences.

Quite possibly because the destruction to the nearby continent wouldn't be
worth the fight... :)

> > Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
> > FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)
>
> I wouldnt put so much faith on that cover, after all its goal was to
> hype you up wasnt it ?

*shrug* It's not the cover, it's the description of Harley in the cast of
characters...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 14
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 23:22:03 -0500
>On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:
>>
>> I say we nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
>>
> The problem with nuking them is the safety hazzard to whom ever is sent
>to verify you got them all. On the other hand if carpet bomb with incneries and
>defolents it is just as effective and there is no Radation hazard! :)
>
> This is definatly not be kind to elf week. Wonderful is it not!! :)

I thought it said 'How elves die of NATURAL causes' when was the last time a
nuking some one from orbit was considered natural. (Sorry about screaming :^)

Any way if they are immortal I wonder if you kill them by takink their head
and with it their powers ;)

Saba Yu
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 16:39:47 +0930
>
> Any way if they are immortal I wonder if you kill them by takink their head
> and with it their powers ;)

*cough* Go read the description of the fight scene between Harley and
Ehran, then decide how you're going to take their head.

(That's the one thing that always bothered me about "Highlander"... how
come people who had been fighting with swords for several hundred years
fought so simply? :) )

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 16
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:49:36 -0400
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
>*cough* Go read the description of the fight scene between Harley and
>Ehran, then decide how you're going to take their head.
>
>(That's the one thing that always bothered me about "Highlander"... how
>come people who had been fighting with swords for several hundred years
>fought so simply? :) )

Come again?

In the interest of curiosity, would someone explain what the fight
scene thing means to those of us who don't have the _all_ the books...
yet :)

And you're not really knocking highlander, are you? Blasphemy!

(and I think I spelled that right, too!)

>>>>>>>>> Nate
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| a.k.a. The Joker |
| |
| Where does he get those marvelous toys? |
| - Joker |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Message no. 17
From: "Gary L. Kelley" <gkelley@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:34:30 -0500
>>
>> Any way if they are immortal I wonder if you kill them by takink their head
>> and with it their powers ;)
>
>*cough* Go read the description of the fight scene between Harley and
>Ehran, then decide how you're going to take their head.
Well I don`t have any of these books so I can`t, besides I was just making a
silly comment.

>(That's the one thing that always bothered me about "Highlander"... how
>come people who had been fighting with swords for several hundred years
>fought so simply? :) )
They fight in the 'simple' manner to better guage their skill and power
(besides it looks really cool on TV ;)
Message no. 18
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 08:05:57 +0930
Nathan Walker wrote:
> In the interest of curiosity, would someone explain what the fight
> scene thing means to those of us who don't have the _all_ the books...
> yet :)

Basically, Ehran and Harlequin go at each other with swords, using fighting
techniques deeloped over several thousand years... :)

> And you're not really knocking highlander, are you? Blasphemy!

No... I own Highlander I and III, and I think they are great. But the
Immortals REALLY should fight better.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 11:40:46 +0100
Nathan Walker said on 16 Oct 95...

> >(That's the one thing that always bothered me about "Highlander"... how
> >come people who had been fighting with swords for several hundred years
> >fought so simply? :) )
>
> Come again?

Harlequin and Ehran are fighting in a style none of the PCs has ever seen,
and so good that it appears even to a layman that they must have had
_LOTS_ of practice. What Bob means, I think, is that in Highlander, the
people in which have been swordfighting for a few hundred years, it all
looks like they've just started doing it as a hobby two days ago (well,
maybe not :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rapacity, tenacity, capacity for more
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 20
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: how elves die of natural causes
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 10:10:00 PDT
H was the start, actually. The pictures are
> there to show to players who keep their eyes open, that these people are
> much more than they seem to be...
> Of course a few years later, the Tir Tairngire sourcebook was published,
> and anyone who didn't have his head in the sand noticed these things
> anyway, but not back when Harlequin originally came out.
>
I remember someone mentioning a thread about travelling back in time.
Why doen't someone travel back and kill king harley.

how does everyone else get rid of these immortal elves. They bug me.


Ricky
"It's not a question of being paranoid, the question
is are you paranoid enough"
-strange days
<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 21
From: Ingmar Krusch <fastjack@******.ET-INF.FHO-EMDEN.DE>
Subject: Re: how elves die of natural causes
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:15:43 +0100
Ricky wrote :

<snip>

>
> I remember someone mentioning a thread about travelling back in time.
> Why doen't someone travel back and kill king harley.
>
> how does everyone else get rid of these immortal elves. They bug me.

Just let them loose interest in the players and off they go ! After all, the
players don't have to realize that what goes on is influenced by elves !

I'm puzzled ! Why does everyone semms to have problems with elves ?
The elven mage in my group (it's the one with the force 8 barrier who
got shot down -after all it's possible- :) has no easy life.
I can't yet see the problem there obviously exists, just don't use _everything_
posted in the books (no complains about not using all books, please ;)


Salve


Ingmar
--


*******************************************************************************

If you did it and you're still alive,
you've probably done it right !

-J. K. W., freelancer

*******************************************************************************
Message no. 22
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:50:30 +0100
Robert Watkins wrote:
> Jani Fikouras wrote:
> >
> > Well I generally agree, but when you really come down to it the 20-so
> > dice a dragon can call upon to resist combat spells (body) or the natural
> > 2d6+reaction reflexes are not that small an advantage no ?
>
> The 20 or so dice or nice, but a good enough initiate can get that as
> well... besides, anyone with an ounce of sense would use willpower
> targetting spells. :)

The natural 8 dragins get doesnt help much either Bob :)

> > > Note that while Harlequin is the most powerful being alive, no-one from
> > > FASA says the second-most powerful being is also an elf. :)
> >
> > I wouldnt put so much faith on that cover, after all its goal was to
> > hype you up wasnt it ?
>
> *shrug* It's not the cover, it's the description of Harley in the cast of
> characters...

Nevertheless I dont think that even Harlequin is more powerfull than the
more powerfull dragons. Dont forget that some dragons probably come from
the second age and are maybe even older than that.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 23
From: "John W. Carter" <scarterjw@****.TRISTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:25:16 -0500
> Nevertheless I dont think that even Harlequin is more powerfull than the
>more powerfull dragons. Dont forget that some dragons probably come from
>the second age and are maybe even older than that.

Ah, yes, but Harlequin has had one major advantage that the dragons haven't:
He's been awake throughout the Fourth World. The Dragons have been sleeping.


>"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
> to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."

Are you sure that's a Shadowrun reference?


/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
| John W. Carter |Janice: You had a brother who was a |
| SCarterJW@****.tristate.edu | comedian? |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|Dr. Bob: Yes, but that was before he fell |
| Card-carrying member of: | into a vat of molten optical |
| The Reptile Sucks | glass. |
| Fan Club |Janice: What did he do? |
| (UMK3: More than a game... |Dr. Bob: He made a spectacle of himself! |
| ...it's a way of life) |-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
| | Home: http://www.tristate.edu:8080/carter |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
Message no. 24
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:29:14 +0100
John W. Carter wrote:
>
> > Nevertheless I dont think that even Harlequin is more powerfull than the
> >more powerfull dragons. Dont forget that some dragons probably come from
> >the second age and are maybe even older than that.
>
> Ah, yes, but Harlequin has had one major advantage that the dragons haven't:
> He's been awake throughout the Fourth World. The Dragons have been sleeping.

This is true, however I dont think that this is any longer a disadvantage.
Just look at Dunkelzahn and Lowfyr and you'll see that even dragons have managed
to catch up with modern science and technology.

> >"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
> > to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
>
> Are you sure that's a Shadowrun reference?

I am sure this is no shadowrun reference :) Its actually from
Reymond Feist's "The Kings Buccaneer". The matrix mentioned is the matrix
of a spell :)

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 25
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:33:47 +0930
John W. Carter wrote:
>
> Ah, yes, but Harlequin has had one major advantage that the dragons haven't:
> He's been awake throughout the Fourth World. The Dragons have been sleeping.

No... the dragons would have been awake in the Fourth world... I think you
mean the Fifth. :)

>
> >"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
> > to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
>
> Are you sure that's a Shadowrun reference?

I think it's actually from Katheraine Kerr's "Deverry" novels.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 26
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 09:35:14 +0930
> > >"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The
lock
> > > to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the
power."
> >
> > Are you sure that's a Shadowrun reference?
>
> I am sure this is no shadowrun reference :) Its actually from
> Reymond Feist's "The Kings Buccaneer". The matrix mentioned is the matrix
> of a spell :)

Yeah, that's it... I read so many books, I get 'em confused.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 27
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: How elves die of natural causes
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:08:44 GMT
in the new shadowrun book there are references to the power the
immortal elf Aina wields and Harlequin says that he isn't as powerful
as Aina

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