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Message no. 1
From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>
Subject: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:55:40 PDT
Okay, we've discussed all the measures to prevent automobile theft in
Shadowrun, but does anyone know or have any idea exactly how a
Shadowrunner would go about stealing a car in 2060? What devices would
he/she use, how long would it take to break in/hot wire the car, what
skills/specializations would he/she use. I don't know how many car
thieves subscribe to the list, but I'd be interested in what you guys
(and ladies) think about how this should be handled in Shadowrun.



Mai mentsu konna mai kikyo.

-Ash'man raen mi'morchaint

P.S.: in reference to the "hands as lethal wps" thread, I've been in
Muay Thai/Wing Chun for 8 years, and have neither met nor spoken with
any high ranking martial artists who have been required by law to
register their body parts at lethal weapons. I think a crazed lunatic
with an aluminum bat is more dangerous to a would-be assailant than a
black-belt martial artist.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:12:28 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-07 13:57:02 EDT, you write:

<< Okay, we've discussed all the measures to prevent automobile theft in
Shadowrun, but does anyone know or have any idea exactly how a
Shadowrunner would go about stealing a car in 2060? What devices would
he/she use, how long would it take to break in/hot wire the car, what
skills/specializations would he/she use. I don't know how many car
thieves subscribe to the list, but I'd be interested in what you guys
(and ladies) think about how this should be handled in Shadowrun. >>

Personally, I think it would come down to several skills possible. If the car
is electronically locked, I think electronics would be needed to get the door
open / hot wire the ignition, disable the alarm. For cars with mechanical
locks I would use Ground Vehicle B/R as the key skill....
Message no. 3
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:10:56 -0400
<SNIP>
>Okay, we've discussed all the measures to prevent automobile
>theft in Shadowrun, but does anyone know or have any idea
>exactly how a Shadowrunner would go about stealing a car in
>2060?
Well I never claimed to be a car thief...but the trend seems to
be more and more towards electronic, keyless systems of
one type or another. I see Electronics as being a major
skill to have. At that point, does the car have some time of
fingerprint, retinal or other method of verifying the driver?
What about if the car only has a VCR right port? There is no
steering wheel! These are just a few things I have thrown at
players at one time or another. And if your planning on legally
keeping the car, there are issues about the cars "transponder"
(See Lonestar source book for lots of this sorta thing).
that any good rigger would need to fix.
The other issue, is most good wage slaves in 2060 probably
park in secured patrolled lots, and live close by.
Just my .02 cents.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 4
From: Jared Leisner <leisnj48@****.CIS.UWOSH.EDU>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:27:45 -0500
Electronics B/R to bypass the security system/electronic locks (I don't
think a slim jim would work in 2060).

Electronics to actually hotwire the car.

Car to drive (duh).

Or...

Some combat skill to shoot the guy.

Or...

Strength/weapon to break the window.

Electronics to hotwire the car.
Message no. 5
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:53:36 -0400
>In a message dated 98-10-07 13:57:02 EDT, you write:
>
><< Okay, we've discussed all the measures to prevent automobile theft in
> Shadowrun, but does anyone know or have any idea exactly how a
> Shadowrunner would go about stealing a car in 2060? What devices would
> he/she use, how long would it take to break in/hot wire the car, what
> skills/specializations would he/she use. I don't know how many car
> thieves subscribe to the list, but I'd be interested in what you guys
> (and ladies) think about how this should be handled in Shadowrun. >>
>
>Personally, I think it would come down to several skills possible. If the car
>is electronically locked, I think electronics would be needed to get the door
>open / hot wire the ignition, disable the alarm. For cars with mechanical
>locks I would use Ground Vehicle B/R as the key skill....

I have had the pleasure of locking my keys in my car and had to pay to get
them out.

A skilled locksmith was in, in less than a minute. He pulled the gasket at
the bottom of the window back a little. Then using a flashlight and a small
hook he reach into the door locking mechanism thru the gap in the gasket
and opened it.

A cop and tow truck driver tried the slimjim approah but failed. It seems
the toyota I had was designed to prevent it from working. They are designed
to break in the locked position if forced wrongly.

A tow truck driver used two small wooden wedges to pry the door open just a
little at the top corner of the door away from the hing. Then he reached in
with a long metal probe bent just right to unlock & unlach the door. again
under a minute. It's surprising how flexible the door was without anything
breaking.

I'd say they could use either vehicle B/R, ie bypassing the lock, ignition,
alarm system. Or ELectronics to defeat the lock, ignition, or alarm system.
The skill simply determines the approach used.

Set a base target number of 3ish plus any alarm levels or GM modifiers like
under fire, never seen this model... A base time of maybe 10 minutes.
Divide number of success into the base time for the length of time it takes.
Message no. 6
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:29:17 -0400
On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, One Ronin wrote:

->Okay, we've discussed all the measures to prevent automobile theft in
->Shadowrun, but does anyone know or have any idea exactly how a
->Shadowrunner would go about stealing a car in 2060? What devices would
->he/she use, how long would it take to break in/hot wire the car, what
->skills/specializations would he/she use. I don't know how many car
->thieves subscribe to the list, but I'd be interested in what you guys
->(and ladies) think about how this should be handled in Shadowrun.

Entry into the car can be easily gained by a small crowbar pulling
out the lock mechanism on the car. This does wreck the lock mechanism,
BTW, and a body shop wouldn't pay as much. When the lock mechanism
has been pulled, you can pull on a metal bar inside to open the door.
After entrance is gained the ignition system must be bypassed. Few cars
these days have chips in the keys or microtransmitters that are required
to activate the starter (these can be bypassed but require access to the
engine, not something done quickly or quietly) so getting to the 'guts' of
the starter switch under the steering column and putting a couple specific
wires together will usually start the engine. People concerned about car
thieves usually install 'dead switches' that also tap into the starter
switch and, if turned off, will take additional time to locate and turn on
(usually they're a light-switch-style switch located under the dashboard).
I'm not certain how long it would take to actually do all this (I have the
knowledge but have never done it, does that qualify it as a purely
Knowledge skill? ]:-) ) but time of 10-20 seconds for entry, 20-60
seconds for starting (unless the chip is there, then assume 2-5 minutes)
and about 10-15 seconds to find the dead switch.
All this info is second hand, but I hope it helps.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 7
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:39:15 EDT
In a message dated 10/7/98 3:20:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> People concerned about car
> thieves usually install 'dead switches' that also tap into the starter
> switch and, if turned off, will take additional time to locate and turn on
> (usually they're a light-switch-style switch located under the dashboard).
> I'm not certain how long it would take to actually do all this (I have the
> knowledge but have never done it,

I saw a tv news show like 20/20 or dateline that showed just how quickly car
thieves could get into a vehicle. They outfitted a normal car with the
majority of the anti theft systems on the market. Within a few minutes the two
experienced car thieves had bypassed everything except some new electronic
dead lock and they said they would not be able to bypass it without know where
it was located or how it works. I believe it was activated by some other means
than a light switch.

I really wished I had taken notes, it was rather informative

-Bandit
Message no. 8
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:22:05 -0400
At 03:39 PM 10/7/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> People concerned about car
>> thieves usually install 'dead switches' that also tap into the starter
>> switch and, if turned off, will take additional time to locate and turn on

I've heard them referred to as "kill switches," in that if you try to start
the car without disengaging the switch, it turns off the fuel pump, or
"kills" it.

>> (usually they're a light-switch-style switch located under the dashboard).

Which is the easy way to do it, and many if not most car thieves have
caught onto it.

Seriously, if anyone out there is going to get a killswitch installed on
their car (as I plan to), pay extra for a good setup. The BEST setups, as
I understand it, incorporate the kill switch into existing buttons on the
car. Like you have to press the window roll-up button to engage/disengage
the killswitch.

>it was located or how it works. I believe it was activated by some other
means
>than a light switch.

I believe I may have seen at least part of the same news report El Bandit.
And I as recall, the cheap killswitches, installed under the dash, were
bypassed easily. When they installed the switchs as a part of existing
buttons and switchs, the thieves couldn't do bypass it, because they
couldn't find it, at least not in the short amount of time that they
normally have to work with.

I would guess that in SR nearly every vehicle with a Anti-Theft device
rated above say, 3 or so, would have some sort of killswitch, the higher
the rating, the better it's hidden.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:50:41 +0200
According to M. Sean Martinez, at 15:39 on 7 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> I saw a tv news show like 20/20 or dateline that showed just how quickly car
> thieves could get into a vehicle. They outfitted a normal car with the
> majority of the anti theft systems on the market. Within a few minutes the two
> experienced car thieves had bypassed everything except some new electronic
> dead lock and they said they would not be able to bypass it without know where
> it was located or how it works. I believe it was activated by some other means
> than a light switch.

Not really surprising, if you know what you're doing. I once read an
article in a motorcycle magazine where they tested the majority of
motorcycle locks on the market here at the time,by having an ex-motorcycle
thief see how quickly he could open them. At least half of the locks could
be opened within a minute, IIRC, and only two or three were too hard to
open without damaging the bike or using tools that were just too obvious.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:50:42 +0200
According to Fixer, at 15:29 on 7 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Entry into the car can be easily gained by a small crowbar pulling
> out the lock mechanism on the car. This does wreck the lock mechanism,
> BTW, and a body shop wouldn't pay as much. When the lock mechanism
> has been pulled, you can pull on a metal bar inside to open the door.

My brother's car radio was stolen by someone who opened the door by
punching a hole just above the lock with some or another pointed object,
and then probably released the lock through that hole. The thief also
apparently tried unlocking the glove compartment that way, without even
attempting to open it normally (it wasn't locked).

It was a bit of a bummer after we came back from one of the Star Wars
special edition movies and found the car open...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:50:42 +0200
According to Erik Jameson, at 18:22 on 7 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Seriously, if anyone out there is going to get a killswitch installed on
> their car (as I plan to), pay extra for a good setup. The BEST setups, as
> I understand it, incorporate the kill switch into existing buttons on the
> car. Like you have to press the window roll-up button to engage/disengage
> the killswitch.

My parents' car has something like that, but using a remote on the
keychain. IIRC, if the keys are taken from the ignition and the door is
then opened and closed -- not necessarily locked -- the system (and a
flashing LED behind the windscreen) switches on. To turn it off, you need
the remote else the engine won't start.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Joshua Mumme <Grimlakin@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:50:05 -0500
Fixer wrote:

> Entry into the car can be easily gained by a small crowbar pulling
> out the lock mechanism on the car. This does wreck the lock mechanism,
> BTW, and a body shop wouldn't pay as much. When the lock mechanism
> has been pulled, you can pull on a metal bar inside to open the door.
> After entrance is gained the ignition system must be bypassed. Few cars
> these days have chips in the keys or microtransmitters that are required
> to activate the starter (these can be bypassed but require access to the
> engine, not something done quickly or quietly) so getting to the 'guts' of
> the starter switch under the steering column and putting a couple specific
> wires together will usually start the engine. People concerned about car
> thieves usually install 'dead switches' that also tap into the starter
> switch and, if turned off, will take additional time to locate and turn on
> (usually they're a light-switch-style switch located under the dashboard).
> I'm not certain how long it would take to actually do all this (I have the
> knowledge but have never done it, does that qualify it as a purely
> Knowledge skill? ]:-) ) but time of 10-20 seconds for entry, 20-60
> seconds for starting (unless the chip is there, then assume 2-5 minutes)
> and about 10-15 seconds to find the dead switch.
> All this info is second hand, but I hope it helps.
>

And here we have a perfect example between quality of car alarms. my friend
just bought a new car. Quite a nice little sports car. And got a Clifton
alarm put in. The valay switch as it is commonly known is actually a two way
toggle on his car that you have to hit in a coded sequence. And it is
reprogrammable. So the first example of quality in alarms. It all depends
on the alarm and how it is setup.

Grimlakin
Message no. 13
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:20:19 -0400
M. Sean Martinez wrote:

>
> I saw a tv news show like 20/20 or dateline that showed just how quickly car
> thieves could get into a vehicle. They outfitted a normal car with the
> majority of the anti theft systems on the market. Within a few minutes the two
> experienced car thieves had bypassed everything except some new electronic
> dead lock and they said they would not be able to bypass it without know where
> it was located or how it works.

Hehe...The Club is a good example of systems that can be disabled
easily. You know those bars that are made of carbon steel, and lock onto
the steering wheel? You can't really cut through them without heavy
equipment, however I have yet to meet a steering wheel that can't be
sawed through easily with a hacksaw. Just open the wheel (less than ten
seconds work), pop the club off, and make off with the car. :)


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 14
From: Jason Cummings <CellSales9@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How to steal a car [was: Stealing cars]
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:41:17 EDT
Personally, my runners stay away from car theft. With all the wiz-bang gizmos
out there to prevent theft, It seems more expensive to buy the shit to break
into the car then to just go out and rent one (under false name, SIN etc.)
Most of the equipment needed would depend on the type of alarm installed. I
think the easyest way would be to deck into the alarm companys 'puter.
Course, you got to stake out the car first, just so you would know exactly
where it would be after your hack...

Remember, the simple things in life are always hard, the hard thing are always
simple.

Further Reading

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