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Message no. 1
From: Geoffrey Giesemann <geoffwa@***********.COM.AU>
Subject: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:37:03 +1000
Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta version
of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many people I
know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those with a
crap connection rate.

Geoff
Message no. 2
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:02:36 -0700
Geoffrey Giesemann wrote:

> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta version
> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many people I
> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those with a
> crap connection rate.

I sympathize with the fact you are sharing your emailer. No worries on that.
But drop the attititude about non-html emailers and 'crap connection rates'.
Any further nned for discussions on mailers and connection rates, and this
applies to *everyone* on the list, take it to private email.


--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
FAQ Flunky for the ShadowRN and SRcard mailing lists.
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:51:30 +0100
Geoffrey Giesemann said on 17:37/ 9 Sep 97...

> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta version
> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many people I
> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those with a
> crap connection rate.

Just a friendly question: do you do this on purpose or do you type things
before you think about them?

I do not have a crap access rate (ISDN, okay so it's not a T3 line but
it's faster than just about any modem) but I don't like HTML because of
reasons I already mentioned to you. Other people have much more severe
problems with HTML, RTF, or attachments -- one person who is/was on the
list can even get fired if he receives attachments, for example.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well, I have no opinion about that, and I have no opinion about me...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 4
From: Geoffrey Giesemann <geoffwa@***********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:41:47 +1000
>Geoffrey Giesemann said on 17:37/ 9 Sep 97...
>
>> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta
version
>> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many people
I
>> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those with a
>> crap connection rate.
>
>Just a friendly question: do you do this on purpose or do you type things
>before you think about them?
>
>I do not have a crap access rate (ISDN, okay so it's not a T3 line but
>it's faster than just about any modem) but I don't like HTML because of
>reasons I already mentioned to you. Other people have much more severe
>problems with HTML, RTF, or attachments -- one person who is/was on the
>list can even get fired if he receives attachments, for example.
>
Actually no I probably don't think things before I type them. Science has
also proved that we can only rationalize about decisions after we have
decided.

Geoff

'
Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:28:37 +0000
> Actually no I probably don't think things before I type them. Science has
> also proved that we can only rationalize about decisions after we have
> decided.

Actually, Science just decided that, then rationalized the decision.

(lose some of the attitude!)
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 6
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:43:48 +0000
On 9 Sep 97 at 17:37, Geoffrey Giesemann wrote:

> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta version
> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many people I
> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those with a
> crap connection rate.

Oh man, you don't give up, do you?
Crap connection rate? How does a T1 strike you?

And fix your reply to. It is overriding the list.

--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
C:\DOS C:\DOS\RUN RUN\DOS\RUN

----------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:50:16 -0700
---Geoffrey Giesemann wrote:
>
> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta
version
> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many
people I
> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those
with a
> crap connection rate.

Oh man...

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Geoffrey Giesemann.

;o)

For one thing, fix your mailer it's overriding the List's Reply-To
field.

For another thing, I have T1 access to the 'Net and still don't like
having to deal with HTML and Mime mailings.

Secondly, I think one important thing is being forgotten on the HTML
mailer debate. This is an RPG discusscion list and anyone should
agree, bottom line, rules in a game stand because the GM says so. Same
goes for the No HTML/Attachment rules on this list...the Admin says
so. Plain and simple.

Now enough with the 'tude, OK?

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 8
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: HTML
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:52:35 EDT
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:50:16 -0700 Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> writes:
>---Geoffrey Giesemann wrote:
>>
>> Look, I share a computer with 5 other people, and I mail with a beta
version
>> of an email program I'm testing. The HTML thing is fixed, and many
people I
>> know use HTML emailers and have fast access speeds. Sorry to those
with a
>> crap connection rate.
>
>Oh man...
>
>"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Geoffrey Giesemann.

LOL...

~Tim
Message no. 9
From: Keldon Mor Keldon@********.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 02:22:10 -0600
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So, is HTML allowed or we still using plain text?

Peace,
Keldon Mor
Keldon@********.net
http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon

------=_NextPart_001_0058_01BE4BF7.576B2EC0
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<HTML>
<HEAD>

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COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 8em
}
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</HEAD>
<BODY background=cid:004f01be4c29$a1fc7700$f5a6fea9@******.netnitco.net>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000><FONT size=3>So, is HTML allowed or
we still using
plain text?</FONT></FONT><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=""
size=3>Peace,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Keldon Mor<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A
href="mailto:Keldon@********.net">Keldon@********.net</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

<A
href="http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon">http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>;

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Message no. 10
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:04:36 -0700
At 02:22 1/30/99 -0600, Keldon Mor wrote:
>So, is HTML allowed or we still using plain text?

HTML will never be allowed during normal list activity as long as Mark and
I are still breathing.

-Adam J
Why? Because it sucks.
--
< http://shadowrun.html.com/tss / adamj@*********.html.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< "I know one thing, it's about damn time I got new entrance music.">
< -Mankind, 01/10/99 RAW is WAR. >
Message no. 11
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: HTML
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:52:30 +0100
According to Adam J, at 12:04 on 30 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> >So, is HTML allowed or we still using plain text?
>
> HTML will never be allowed during normal list activity as long as Mark and
> I are still breathing.

Add to that as long as I'm a GridSec member. It causes nothing but trouble
in Pegasus, and no doubt in many other mailers as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 02:46:32 -0400
Sorry. God, I won't do that again!
Message no. 13
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:54:46 -0400
Okay, I've read the FAQ.

But has anyone noticed that this mailing list's software has some really
awful limitations?

'Course, I think it should be NNTP. I think it should support HTML. I think
it should write adventures for me.

You know, technology should do everything.

<grin.>
Message no. 14
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:04:59 -0600
At 23:54 8/15/99 -0400, abortion_engine wrote:

>But has anyone noticed that this mailing list's software has some really
>awful limitations?

Like what?

>'Course, I think it should be NNTP.

Then connect to a news server and read a newsgroup. Different tools for
different purposes and people.

> I think it should support HTML.

The admins and a good majority of the users don't. Not supported on all
platform, bloated mail sizes, and above all - HTML offers nothing truly
useful for the list.

Adam J
Assistant Fearless Leader
< http://shadowrun.html.com/tss / adamj@*********.html.com / ICQ# 2350330 >
Message no. 15
From: Jhary-a-Conel jhary-a-conel@***.de
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:13:38 +0200
On 15 Aug 99, at 22:04, Adam J wrote:
[snip HTML]
> The admins and a good majority of the users don't. Not supported on all
> platform, bloated mail sizes, and above all - HTML offers nothing truly
> useful for the list.
But... but... we could have animated gifs! And colored rulers! And
<blink>blinking</blink> text! Tables! And I would have a background wave-
file! There are countless possibilities, our life would become so wonderful,
we were in heaven on earth, we...

/* Please note: Jhary has been infected with the Microsoft-Virus. He will
be cured and back to health real soon now. Thank you. */


Jhary
I don't believe in love,/I never have, / I never will, / I don't
believe in love / it's never worth the pain you feel (Queensryche)
Message no. 16
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:24:04 -0400
AdamJ said:
HTML offers nothing truly
useful for the list.

But, but...bold typefaces, and italics, and customizability...okay, okay,
you caught me. I used to be a designer--web and graphic--and plain text bugs
me to death. Not your fault.

But as to the list software and it's shortcomings, the thread listing is a
little oversimplified, and the "by date" sort usually isn't accurate. (Or, I
could be totally wrong. It's been known to happen. A lot.)

'Course, this is version, what, 0.05? It's supposed to happen.

Umm, I'd love to use a Shadowrun newsgroup. Is there a
rec.roleplaying.shadowrun I should know about?
Message no. 17
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:36:59 -0600
At 16:24 8/16/99 -0400, abortion_engine wrote:

>But as to the list software and it's shortcomings, the thread listing is a
>little oversimplified, and the "by date" sort usually isn't accurate. (Or,
I
>could be totally wrong. It's been known to happen. A lot.)
>
>'Course, this is version, what, 0.05? It's supposed to happen.

1.0 RC3, of an Open Source project. You have problems, bugs, idea
suggestions, etc, submit them over at the Mailman web page at
http://www.list.org

>Umm, I'd love to use a Shadowrun newsgroup. Is there a
>rec.roleplaying.shadowrun I should know about?

rec.games.frp.cyber

Adam

--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 18
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@******.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:24:16 -0500
I myself prefer HTML mail. My own mailing lists support it and I use it to a
great degree. But my own lists are not as LARGE as this list! When I first
signed on here I was a bit disappointed by the fact that it doesn't support
HTML. But in the following months I noticed just how busy this list is. HTML
is NOT a good idea with a list of this size... can you imagine the download
time is everyone here decided to go HTML crazy?! Now that's a nightmare!

Later

J

jmortir@******.net
ICQ# 27381095
http://www.shreve.net/~jmortir/AWINS

"Tis a nobler thing I... Awww screw it! BYE!"
Message no. 19
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:51:32 -0400
At 23.54 08-15-99 -0400, you wrote:
>You know, technology should do everything.

No, it should not. You can use technology, or it will be used by people
who actually understand it to use you.
If you were on the web in the good old days, before the advent of WYSIWYG
and super-easy uploads, when men were men, women were women, small green
fuzzy things from Alpha Centauri were small green fuzzy things from Alpha
Centuri, and everyone wrote thier own HTML and telneted or ftped
everything, you would realize that the average quality of content has gone
down. Glitz and pretty pictures had gone through the roof, but does not
make up for sucky content.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your pholosophy."
Message no. 20
From: Logan Graves logan1@*****.intercom.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:11:47 -0400
In our last episode, Jhary-a-Conel wrote:
>
> But... but... we could have animated gifs! And colored rulers! And
> <blink>blinking</blink> text! Tables! And I would have a background wave-
> file! There are countless possibilities, our life would become so wonderful,
> we were in heaven on earth, we...
>
> /* Please note: Jhary has been infected with the Microsoft-Virus. He will
> be cured and back to health real soon now. Thank you. */

/* And additionally, just in case he isn't, please note the VERY large troll,
(the one toting the "reality check telephone pole") perched just above him!! */

--Fenris, who still hasn't stopped laughing

______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Hangin's too good fer him! Burnin's too good
fer him!! He outta be chopped up into itty bitty
pieces and BURIED ALIVE!!!
(>) Hanover Fist, during the trial
Message no. 21
From: Ryan W. Bolduan emeottrw@***.umn.edu
Subject: HTML
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 06:31:54 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, IronRaven wrote:

> No, it should not. You can use technology, or it will be used by people
> who actually understand it to use you.
> If you were on the web in the good old days, before the advent of WYSIWYG
> and super-easy uploads, when men were men, women were women, small green
> fuzzy things from Alpha Centauri were small green fuzzy things from Alpha
> Centuri, and everyone wrote thier own HTML and telneted or ftped
> everything, you would realize that the average quality of content has gone
> down. Glitz and pretty pictures had gone through the roof, but does not
> make up for sucky content.
>

You can say that again. I remember when the only way to even find a web
page was to know somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody that
happened to know how to write in HTML. I still write all of my HTML by
hand rather than let some program do it, don't know why, I just do. (OH,
and don't get me started on the pages that take 30 minutes to load and are
just a bunch of Java Applets, ugh).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Bolduan emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and
buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the
water, eat fish and play around.
Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."
-- Douglas Adams
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: HTML
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:01:28 +0200
> You can say that again. I remember when the only way to even find a web
> page was to know somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody that
> happened to know how to write in HTML. I still write all of my HTML by
> hand rather than let some program do it, don't know why, I just do. (OH,
> and don't get me started on the pages that take 30 minutes to load and are
> just a bunch of Java Applets, ugh).

The reason why I still write every HTML page by hand is because that way I
know what's up when something goes wrong. Also you have more control over
the page and a lot of page-creator programs are messy and store a lot of
redundant info that takes years to download.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 23
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: HTML
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:56:57 -0400
"Ryan W. Bolduan" wrote:

> You can say that again. I remember when the only way to even find a web
> page was to know somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody that
> happened to know how to write in HTML. I still write all of my HTML by
> hand rather than let some program do it, don't know why, I just do. (OH,
> and don't get me started on the pages that take 30 minutes to load and are
> just a bunch of Java Applets, ugh).
>

How 'bout the pages where someone has addicted themselves to the frame idea to the
point of 8+ frames per page? :-7

Wildfire
Supporter of the Notepad for Best HTML Editor campaign
Message no. 24
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: HTML
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:56:57 +0200
Wildfire wrote:
>

> Wildfire
> Supporter of the Notepad for Best HTML Editor campaign


Do it6 right man :)

Vi and sed <g>

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 25
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:19:26 +700
>> Wildfire
>> Supporter of the Notepad for Best HTML Editor campaign
>
>Do it6 right man :)
>
>Vi and sed <g>

Used to agree until I found HomeSite.

Let's you work on it pure just like notepad only it has a search and replace
function that can move across multiple files and multiple directories. The only
windows based program I know of that can do this.
In Unix of course you can do it with a little scripting.
Arcady WebRPG Magistrate http://townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 26
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: HTML
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:53:52 -0400
At 15.19 08-19-99 +700, you wrote:
>Used to agree until I found HomeSite.

Raven bobs his head. HS has got to be the best out there, and it levels
you with full control.


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."

Further Reading

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Thwap!