Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:33:11 -0600
On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, David Buehrer wrote:

> Falin \ wrote about "Spells":
>
> |I'm currently teaching myself HTML and would request from you any help
> |that could be offered.
>
> Here's a quick tip. When you're surfing the web keep an eye out for
> sites that are put together really well. If you find one, view the
> source code for the site to find out how they did that (Netscape and
> Microsoft's browser both have this capability).

OH, dear, is that as 'bad' as it sounds to me?

I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
easier to modify/wreck?
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:33:23 +0000
|> Here's a quick tip. When you're surfing the web keep an eye out for
|> sites that are put together really well. If you find one, view the
|> source code for the site to find out how they did that (Netscape and
|> Microsoft's browser both have this capability).
|
|OH, dear, is that as 'bad' as it sounds to me?
|
|I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
|easier to modify/wreck?

What it means is, you can VIEW the page, and the browser can be SET to
ignore the HTML and print it to screen or file instead of processing it into
the finished page.

It does NOT mean that every user on the web has Write privalage to your web
page....
(although, with Microsoft, I wouldn't put it past them.....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:42:32 -0600
At 07:33 PM 1/7/97 -0600, you wrote:
>I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
>easier to modify/wreck?
>
There's a difference between being able to read a file, and being able to
write/execute it on their server. If you couldn't read the HTML source
code, you couldn't view the page, and the web would fall apart. So, no,
it's not as bad as it sounds.

Mike Broadwater
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:50:09 -0700
Brian Johnson wrote:
|
| On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, David Buehrer wrote:
|
| > Here's a quick tip. When you're surfing the web keep an eye out for
| > sites that are put together really well. If you find one, view the
| > source code for the site to find out how they did that (Netscape and
| > Microsoft's browser both have this capability).
|
| OH, dear, is that as 'bad' as it sounds to me?
|
| I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
| easier to modify/wreck?

No. Web documents are written (in text format) with HTML
comments. HTML comments are format commands (bold print,
beginning of paragraph, underline, center, etc.). Web
browsers (Netscape) interpret the HTML comments and display
the page as the author intended. You can change a setting
on most web browsers so that it will not interpret the
HTML, and will display the page as is with all of the HTML
comments.

Web browsers don't actually access web sites. They contact
a web site and ask for a copy of the document (and any
graphics linked to that document) at that address
(http://....).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 02:38:06 +0000
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.970107193209.3929N-100000@****.tc.umn.edu>,
Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU> writes

>
>OH, dear, is that as 'bad' as it sounds to me?
>
>I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
>easier to modify/wreck?


Oh no.... no not at all. You can view the source code of a web page
(the HTML content), you can edit the source code, but there's no way you
can save it back to the same page, without the relevant server
applications software or the rights to write a file into the server
area... Not that easy at all. All you can do with it, is cut and paste
the code, or save it to your hard drive for later inspection :)


All Microsoft and Netscape have done is give you the opportunity to see
the source code for something that you like, makes transferal of
information and HTML data much easier for those who are still learning
it. the only hidden parts of the source code on sites, is stuff like
java, which operates from programming source code, and is activated by
the web page/browser, you can't see how people did that wizzy little
rotating ufo above the skull & crossbones of the Whitehouse for
instance, but you can see the code that created the page the image is
stored on. :) It sounds awful, but it is in fact surprisingly
harmless. ;)


--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
Message no. 6
From: Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 02:39:01 +0000
In article <27456.199701081633@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> writes


>What it means is, you can VIEW the page, and the browser can be SET to
>ignore the HTML and print it to screen or file instead of processing it into
>the finished page.
>
>It does NOT mean that every user on the web has Write privalage to your web
>page....
>(although, with Microsoft, I wouldn't put it past them.....)

For once they got something right, though I dare say the temptation was
probably there :)


--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:46:18 +0100
Brian Johnson said on 19:33/ 7 Jan 97...

> > Here's a quick tip. When you're surfing the web keep an eye out for
> > sites that are put together really well. If you find one, view the
> > source code for the site to find out how they did that (Netscape and
> > Microsoft's browser both have this capability).
>
> OH, dear, is that as 'bad' as it sounds to me?
>
> I mean if you can read the source code, wouldn't that make it that much
> easier to modify/wreck?

When you click on "Source..." in Internet Explorer all it does is open
Notepad with the page's HTML code in it. It's possible to modify it, but
it's impossible to save it back to the original page -- all you can do
with it is save it on your own HD so you can steal bits from it later on.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:26:14 -0500
Gurth wrote,
>When you click on "Source..." in Internet Explorer all it does is open
>Notepad with the page's HTML code in it. It's possible to modify it, but
>it's impossible to save it back to the original page -- all you can do
>with it is save it on your own HD so you can steal bits from it later on.
>
I seem to recall stories of websites being hacked into and altered
(Internet Underground was my source I think) so I wouldn't say impossible.
But no, that's not just by using your browser to see the sourcecode.
That's just creating public domain of an Intellectual Property, and that
becomes a huge mess of grey area when you're dealing with "internet" law.
My advice is never place anything on the Net you don't want to be
considered public domain and think about what you are using.Also,
Photoshop 4.0 now does digital watermarking (hurray!) to strengthen legal
ties to work on the net or in other digital media.



Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 9
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:59:51 +0000
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Organization: Plastic Warriors

> When you click on "Source..." in Internet Explorer all it does is open
> Notepad with the page's HTML code in it. It's possible to modify it, but
> it's impossible to save it back to the original page -- all you can do
> with it is save it on your own HD so you can steal bits from it later on.

It is certainly not impossible, just ask the IRS and CIA. Web
servers are generally protected by a "firewall" that prevents you
from overwriting it's data. There are, of course, ways around this
security measure.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:53:31 +0100
Droopy said on 23:59/13 Jan 97...

> > When you click on "Source..." in Internet Explorer all it does is open
> > Notepad with the page's HTML code in it. It's possible to modify it, but
> > it's impossible to save it back to the original page -- all you can do
> > with it is save it on your own HD so you can steal bits from it later on.
>
> It is certainly not impossible, just ask the IRS and CIA. Web
> servers are generally protected by a "firewall" that prevents you
> from overwriting it's data. There are, of course, ways around this
> security measure.

I meant with Netscape or Internet Explorer... If you know the right ways,
of course you can modify the actual data. Al I was trying to say is that,
to my knowledge, it's impossible to save modified source code back to the
original URL from a normal web browser.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vliegen met die hap!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 11
From: Rob Siemborski <robsiemb@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: HTML weakness?
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:35:05 +0000
> I meant with Netscape or Internet Explorer... If you know the right ways,
> of course you can modify the actual data. Al I was trying to say is that,
> to my knowledge, it's impossible to save modified source code back to the
> original URL from a normal web browser.

Unless, of course, you know some hot decker with one of those
Fairlights....

- Rob -
<<<Robert Siemborski, System Administratior, Silicon Super Network>>>
http://www.ssnlink.net

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----
Version: 3.1
GCS/IT/CM d- s+:- a--- C++++>$ UI++>++++ UA++ UL>+ UB+$>++++ UV$>++++
P+$>+++$ L+ E---- W+++ N+ o K- w+(++++)>+++++$ O-(+) M--(+)>! Y PGP
t+ 5+++>++++ !X R++>+++ tv(+) b++(+++) DI+ D++(+++) G e- h+>++ r y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about HTML weakness?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!