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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Hunter and Prey
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:14:15 -0400
Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a nice piece
of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is quoted
below.

"The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from you."

Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
(assuming it's a spirit barrier). However, I can't for the life of me
figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects
the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I am
somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my understanding.
:)

Also, the magician mentions that the spirit is not an Avatar. Could
someone tell me more about what an Avatar is? This is the first reference
to such an entity that I have seen.

Thanks,

Justin :)
Message no. 2
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:36:45 -0500
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:14:15 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
writes:
<<Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a nice
piece of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is
quoted below.

"The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from you."

Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
(assuming it's a spirit barrier). However, I can't for the life of me
figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects
the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I
am somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my
understanding.>>


I think that you're going at it from the wrong direction: it's not a
spirit barrier, it's simply a very powerful ward (attuned, presumably, to
its maker and not to the mage inside). In which case, it could block
astral movement from both within and without, without violating your
understanding of SR magic. Check out the 2nd ed. Grimmy, pg 92.


<<Also, the magician mentions that the spirit is not an Avatar. Could
someone tell me more about what an Avatar is? This is the first
reference to such an entity that I have seen.>>


I'm assuming that that is a reference to a Totemic Avatar. If that
doesn't help, consider it to be the closest possible thing to actually
*summoning* one of the Totems (ie, one very NASTY spirit).


Canthros

(working on a shorter .sig)
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:39:12 -0400
> From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 9:36 PM
>
> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:14:15 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
> writes:

> <<Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a
nice
> piece of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is
> quoted below.

> "The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from you."

> Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
> (assuming it's a spirit barrier). However, I can't for the life of me
> figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects
> the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I
> am somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my
> understanding.>>

> I think that you're going at it from the wrong direction: it's not a
> spirit barrier, it's simply a very powerful ward (attuned, presumably, to
> its maker and not to the mage inside). In which case, it could block
> astral movement from both within and without, without violating your
> understanding of SR magic. Check out the 2nd ed. Grimmy, pg 92.

So perhaps it is an attuned ward. That still doesn't explain why it
protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects the mage from the
spirit. I am well aware of wards and the variations thereof in the Grimmy
and Awakenings. However, I don't know of a ward that would protect the
spirit on the outside of the ward more than it would protect the mage on
the inside. See what I'm saying? Also, the ward, spell, or whatever
appeared during the scene. When creating a ward, wouldn't you have to be
within it? If so, the mage must have created it himself. However, this
directly contradicts the quote above. Thus, I belive it's a spell of some
kind (perhaps an anchoring) that acts as a ward in the Astral Plane which
keeps spirits from passing. This could easily be a mana barrier or spirit
barrier spell. Regardless, I still don't know what it could be given the
above quote.

> <<Also, the magician mentions that the spirit is not an Avatar. Could
> someone tell me more about what an Avatar is? This is the first
> reference to such an entity that I have seen.>>

> I'm assuming that that is a reference to a Totemic Avatar. If that
> doesn't help, consider it to be the closest possible thing to actually
> *summoning* one of the Totems (ie, one very NASTY spirit).

Interesting....

> Canthros

> (working on a shorter .sig)

I like it. :)

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: "NATHAN M. CHATFIELD" <s1183038@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:38:09 +1000
> Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a nice piece
> of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is quoted
> below.
>
> "The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from you."
>
> Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
> (assuming it's a spirit barrier). However, I can't for the life of me
> figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects
> the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I am
> somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my understanding.
> :)
>


My understanding of this is that some mage or team of mages created this
ward to specifically contain the mage inside the ward like a spirit
barrier contains spirits. That way it protects the bug from the mage more
than it protects the mage from the bug.


> Also, the magician mentions that the spirit is not an Avatar. Could
> someone tell me more about what an Avatar is? This is the first reference
> to such an entity that I have seen.
>

It is my guess that an Avatar is near as possible to the totem or
element as you can get.


---Phantom---
Message no. 5
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:23:29 GMT
Justin Pinnow writes

> Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a nice piece
> of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is quoted
> below.
>
> "The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from you."
>
> Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
> (assuming it's a spirit barrier).
Anchoring is the obvious one, various novels indicate there are other
tricks FASA haven't written down rule for that might say allow a
command activated ward or something like it but.

> However, I can't for the life of me
> figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it protects
> the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I am
> somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my understanding.
> :)
Unless as folks have been suggesting it's some sort of attuned ward,
or it might refer to the fact an Anchored mana barroer spell might
impede magic (what the mage used) more than physical attacks (what
the spirit wanted to use)
Chances are this is a general comment, and any such effect is below
the threshold for attention by game rules.

> Also, the magician mentions that the spirit is not an Avatar. Could
> someone tell me more about what an Avatar is? This is the first reference
> to such an entity that I have seen.
>
It is the only mention, but the way it's used 'Avatar' presumably
refers either to a special messenger from a totem or a physical
manifestation of the totem, something that would be 'a part' of the
totem but not actually the full totem 'whatever' itself.

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 07:58:47 -0400
> From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
> Date: Thursday, September 18, 1997 5:23 AM

> Justin Pinnow writes

> > Okay, I just read over "Hunter and Prey" by Mr. Dowd, and it's a nice
piece
> > of work. :) However, one statement baffles me. The statement is
quoted
> > below.

> > "The ward is not mine, and so protects you from me more than I from
you."

> > Now, I can understand there are various ways for the ward to not be his
> > (assuming it's a spirit barrier).

> Anchoring is the obvious one, various novels indicate there are other
> tricks FASA haven't written down rule for that might say allow a
> command activated ward or something like it but.

> > However, I can't for the life of me
> > figure out how it protects the spirit from the mage more than it
protects
> > the mage from the spirit. Can someone enlighten me? I like to think I
am
> > somewhat versed in Shadowrun magic, but this is beyond my
understanding.
> > :)

> Unless as folks have been suggesting it's some sort of attuned ward,
> or it might refer to the fact an Anchored mana barroer spell might
> impede magic (what the mage used) more than physical attacks (what
> the spirit wanted to use)

Actually, a mana barrier will stop a spirit/(meta)human from physically
passing through it as well. *shrug* Guess I just have to let it be.

> Mark

Justin :)
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:42:00 GMT
Justin Pinnow writes
> > Unless as folks have been suggesting it's some sort of attuned ward,
> > or it might refer to the fact an Anchored mana barroer spell might
> > impede magic (what the mage used) more than physical attacks (what
> > the spirit wanted to use)
>
> Actually, a mana barrier will stop a spirit/(meta)human from physically
> passing through it as well. *shrug* Guess I just have to let it be.
>
This is the root cause of the problem. I was aware of it though the
effect is different.

A ward is hard armour against spells [yes HARD] and fights force vs
magic attribute TN the others rating.

Mana barrier adds half force to all spell TN's or counts a barrier
per the barrier rules against physical attacks. I suppose a force 10
mana barrier might well at +5TN's be enough the mage could not centre
off all the penalty while the spirit could break it simply by STR >
spell force, obviously the 'ward' in this case was more powerful than
a force 10 mana barrier (lots more) but it might explain it.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:46:19 -0500
<snip "This protects you more than me" quote>

How about the simplest explanation: It protects
the bug more than the mage because the mage
is more dangerous than the bug.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 9
From: "Carlton B. Davis" <davisc74@***.ACS.UWOSH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hunter and Prey -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 23:40:24 -0500
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Mike Elkins wrote:

> <snip "This protects you more than me" quote>
>
> How about the simplest explanation: It protects
> the bug more than the mage because the mage
> is more dangerous than the bug.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
Or, just call it a standard barrier, and look at their locations. The bug
can move around and take advantage of the scenery or even flee. The mage
is stuck in the barrier, and has to take whatever and however much the bug
wants to throw at him. Hence, the barrier protects the bug more than it
protects the mage.

Further Reading

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