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Message no. 1
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 18:39:13 -0500
I have been writing an adventure set from depths of between 1500 and 5500
meters - depths which require special pressurized mixed-gas breathing
environments due to pressure problems - and have a few points that I have
been having problems with.

A corporate research team developed a suit similar to the one in .The
Abyss. (the breathing-liquid suit, if you've seen the movie you know what
I mean). I have explained the working of the suit as a system which allows
high enough O2 concentrations dissolved in the water as to permit breathing:
however, I immediately came up with the idea of planting a small charge in
or on the suit, directed inwards. This is worse than the so-called "Chunky
Salsa" effect: hydrostatic shock is a nasty thing. Any suggestions on how
to resolve the damage?

Working at depths of 1500-5500 meters can be a dangerous thing. What
happens if someone gets claustrophobia? How can this situation be
resolved?

Also, in a helium mixed-gas environment, what effects does this have on
electronic equipment? I believe I read somewhere that some strange things
happen at great depths in mixed-gas.

Hull breach rules? How long does it take someone to drown? How many
feet of carbon steel-titanium alloy does it take to survive at 5500 feet?
What does a taser do underwater (area effect stun? That would be cool!).

More questions yet to come.

Gian-Paolo, GM of Truly Evil Adventures.
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 20:00:25 -0400
>>>>> "GP" == Gian-Paolo Musumeci
<musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU> writes:

[...]

GP> A corporate research team developed a suit similar to the one in .The
GP> Abyss. (the breathing-liquid suit, if you've seen the movie you know
GP> what I mean).

Which exist in prototype today. Not a fun experience from what I've heard.

[...]

GP> Any suggestions on how to resolve the damage?

You die. If the charge doesn't kill you, the breach of your suit will.

GP> Working at depths of 1500-5500 meters can be a dangerous thing. What
GP> happens if someone gets claustrophobia? How can this situation be
GP> resolved?

Claustrophobia is a psychological disorder, something that a trained deep
diver is unlikely to have (much like an airline pilot is unlikely to suffer
from agorophobia, or a lion tamer who suffers from ailurophobia).
Otherwise, it's uncontrolled panic; have fun, watch Outland sometime :).

GP> Also, in a helium mixed-gas environment, what effects does this have on
GP> electronic equipment? I believe I read somewhere that some strange
GP> things happen at great depths in mixed-gas.

Not sure.

GP> Hull breach rules? How long does it take someone to drown?

5 minutes without oxygen is pretty much garaunteed to result in permanant
severe brain damage if not death. At depth it won't matter, because unless
you can get inside a diving bell within seconds you're going to be crushed
by the pressure or drown long before they can get you to the surface.

GP> How many feet of carbon steel-titanium alloy does it take to survive at
GP> 5500 feet?

Depends on the shape, now doesn't it :). No, I don't know the specifics.

GP> What does a taser do underwater (area effect stun? That would be
GP> cool!).

Dunnow; probably not much, though.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Don't anybody try this at home. I'm a
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|licensed doctor an' a trained psychotic.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |--Ron Post
Message no. 3
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 19:17:37 -0500
Did I get the techniques used on the pressurized liquid O2 suits right? I
figured that such a system is technically feasable. =)

I was wondering, what happens if someone goes insane in a closed environ? What
happens to them - do they get really strong (Str and Bod times TWO!), very,
very resilient (all stun damage is halved! deadly damage is 3/4ths normal!)
what...

*grin*

I wanna screw some players over.
Message no. 4
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@******.UOW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 13:17:58 +0000
> I was wondering, what happens if someone goes insane in a closed environ? What
> happens to them - do they get really strong (Str and Bod times TWO!), very,
> very resilient (all stun damage is halved! deadly damage is 3/4ths normal!)
> what...

Well, not exactly being an expert on insanity I'll make my opinion known
nonetheless.

I don't see why going insane would bestow any bonuses, whether it was in an
enclosed environ or not. I would say that the only effect turning into a phsyco
would have would perhaps be pain resistance. The individual would likely show
no fear or reasoning, and so would appear to be more "superhuman" than they
really were.

> I wanna screw some players over.

Don't we all :-)
But watch out for the "anti anti player" sentiment on this list :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-Mail: u9467882@******.uow.edu.au

(Geek Code 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !tv(--) b++ D+ B? e+ u@ h+(*)
f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+
Message no. 5
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 00:36:06 -0600
On Sun, 14 Aug 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:
> A corporate research team developed a suit similar to the one in .The
> Abyss. (the breathing-liquid suit, if you've seen the movie you know what
> I mean). I have explained the working of the suit as a system which allows
> high enough O2 concentrations dissolved in the water as to permit breathing:
> however, I immediately came up with the idea of planting a small charge in
> or on the suit, directed inwards. This is worse than the so-called "Chunky
> Salsa" effect: hydrostatic shock is a nasty thing. Any suggestions on how
> to resolve the damage?

Yes. Any power explosion of Power greater than zero does 30D damage
(assuming that this is enough to kill the subject).

> Working at depths of 1500-5500 meters can be a dangerous thing. What
> happens if someone gets claustrophobia? How can this situation be
> resolved?

Make Willpower rolls to resist doing something irrational.

> Also, in a helium mixed-gas environment, what effects does this have on
> electronic equipment? I believe I read somewhere that some strange things
> happen at great depths in mixed-gas.

Dunno about this one.

> Hull breach rules? How long does it take someone to drown?

Ah, yes. Hull breaches? You don't worry about drowning. You worry
about burning up at 3000 degrees. I'll explain why:

At extreme depths, when there is a hull breach, the water is rushing in
(because of pressure) _MUCH_ faster than air can leak out. Result? The
air just keeps getting more and more pressurized, and because of the gas
laws, the temperature rises. Eventually, the temperature gets so high
that everything flammable ( including nitrogen ) ignites and explodes,
kind of like a piston in an engine, except hotter.

So you don't even need to give drowning a second thought. If you're not
near an airlock, you're fucked.

> How many feet of carbon steel-titanium alloy does it take to survive at 5500
> feet? What does a taser do underwater (area effect stun? That would be cool!)
.

If it's salt water (which I assume it is), then yes.

> More questions yet to come.
>
> Gian-Paolo, GM of Truly Evil Adventures.
>

Keep sendin' 'em,

John IV
Message no. 6
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 09:12:18 -0500
How should I resolve tasers underwater? What about electrical discharges?
Is water an effective radiation block?
Message no. 7
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 15:43:19 +0100
In reply to Gian-Paolo Musumeci .....

> Also, in a helium mixed-gas environment, what effects does this have on
> electronic equipment? I believe I read somewhere that some strange things
> happen at great depths in mixed-gas.

Well I've not heard that anything happens, if something were to affect the
electronics it would be from certain materials in components in materials
reacting with the highly pressurised gasses.

The only enviromental effects that I know of that effect electronics are EM
radition and temperature <silicon does funny things when you make it too hot
or too cold, reducing/increasing the temperature of other components is also
likely to affect performance>.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 8
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 16:07:00 +0100
Hmm, if I wanted to do some deep diving, I'd start thiking of Oxygenate type
spells anchored to the suit or held as a Spell Lock or Quickened

Micah Levy
Message no. 9
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 22:18:33 -0600
On Mon, 15 Aug 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> How should I resolve tasers underwater? What about electrical discharges?
> Is water an effective radiation block?

Water is a very effective radiation _attenuator_ (_nothing_ _ever_
completely blocks radiation) for certain kinds of radiation. It
attenuates neutrons and charged particles (alpha & beta) well. With gamma
rays, however, it depends on the energy.

(My dad's a medical physicist. :) [he's John III, by the way.])

John IV
Message no. 10
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 12:47:12 -0500
John IV wrote:


> _nothing_ _ever_ completely blocks radiation

I believe you are incorrect here. A single alpha particle can be blocked quite
easily (skin will do it)...'course if you're talking about, say, a gamma beam,
well, no. =)
Message no. 11
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:08:11 +0100
> John IV wrote:
> > _nothing_ _ever_ completely blocks radiation

I believe a superconductor can completely block radition.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 12
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:13:12 -0600
On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> John IV wrote:
> > _nothing_ _ever_ completely blocks radiation
>
> I believe you are incorrect here. A single alpha particle can be blocked quit
e
> easily (skin will do it)...'course if you're talking about, say, a gamma beam,
> well, no. =)

No. Let me explain half-widths. With a certain substance and a certain
type of radiation, there is a certain thickness, or half-width, that will
attenuate half of the current amount of radiation. If you have one
half-width, then only 1/2 of the radiation will get through. If you have
two, then 1/4 will get through, three, then 1/8, etc. Most solid
substances have an extremely short half-width when it comes to alpha
particles, so _practically_ no alpha particles go through. Alpha
radiation, however, is almost never worried about.

John IV
Message no. 13
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:15:54 -0600
On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, The Powerhouse wrote:

> > John IV wrote:
> > > _nothing_ _ever_ completely blocks radiation
>
> I believe a superconductor can completely block radition.
>
> Phill.

I sincerely hope that you are joking.

John IV
Message no. 14
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 20:32:53 +0100
In reply to John Moeller .....

> > I believe a superconductor can completely block radition.

> I sincerely hope that you are joking.

No, but then again I never actually covered superconductors in my physics
course so I could be wrong. I do seem to remember hearing it from a fairly
authoratative source though. I'd imagine the superconductor would have to
be conducting, but not necessarily. I believe there was some research into
this sort of thing as a substance which can block all e/m radition can be
used to shield computers from the e/m pulse produced by nukes.

Check in a physics book though, as I say I never covered superconductors and
I have little to do with physics these days.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 15
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:12:36 -0500
Hey, John IV, if you'll reread what I said, I said a "single alpha particle" not
a STREAM of alpha particles. If you fire one alpha particle at, say, 40 meters
of lead, it is not going to get through it. Well, okay, it MIGHT, but it's nt
probable AT ALL. Therefore, it's possible to stop a single alpha particle with
an infinitely small probability of it travelling through the barrier.
If you shoot enough radiation at anything, it will get through it. Period. =)
Message no. 16
From: Alexander Borghgraef <Alexander.Borghgraef@***.AC.BE>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 13:54:59 --100
> > I believe a superconductor can completely block radition.

I don't know for sure , but I believe superconductors block all magnetic fields.
Message no. 17
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 23:00:15 -0600
On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, The Powerhouse wrote:

> In reply to John Moeller .....
>
> > > I believe a superconductor can completely block radition.
>
> > I sincerely hope that you are joking.
>
> No, but then again I never actually covered superconductors in my physics
> course so I could be wrong. I do seem to remember hearing it from a fairly
> authoratative source though. I'd imagine the superconductor would have to
> be conducting, but not necessarily. I believe there was some research into
> this sort of thing as a substance which can block all e/m radition can be
> used to shield computers from the e/m pulse produced by nukes.
>
> Check in a physics book though, as I say I never covered superconductors and
> I have little to do with physics these days.

Oh. <sheepish grin> I guess that might be possible, because when a
superconductor is "superconducting" it excludes all magnetic fields from
within it. That's why a magnet floats on a superconductor; it levitates
upon its own magnetic field. Since e/m radiation contains a magnetic
field compnent, I guess that it might exclude those, too. Thus you have
a good e/m deflector.

However, it wouldn't work against neutrons, and I don't know about
charged particles ( moving charged particles generate a magnetic field ).

Just my little chunk of info,

John IV
Message no. 18
From: John Moeller <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 23:09:20 -0600
On Tue, 16 Aug 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> Hey, John IV, if you'll reread what I said, I said a "single alpha
particle" n
ot
> a STREAM of alpha particles. If you fire one alpha particle at, say, 40 meter
s
> of lead, it is not going to get through it. Well, okay, it MIGHT, but it's nt
> probable AT ALL. Therefore, it's possible to stop a single alpha particle wit
h
> an infinitely small probability of it travelling through the barrier.
> If you shoot enough radiation at anything, it will get through it. Period. =
)

Actually, you didn't specify. Anyway, I didn't mean to get a flame. You
really don't need to worry about alpha emissions, anyway, only neutron,
gamma, and beta. It's just that there's a lot of misinformation
traveling about radiation. It makes it hard for people like my dad who
works with radiotherapy. A woman wanted a lead blanket put over her
abdomen to protect her unborn fetus (which was questionable as to whether
there was one anyway) because her obstetrician said that it would "block"
radiation. The woman was being treated with electron beams. When
electrons pass through lead, they actually create _more_ radiation than
was originally there.

Anyway, sorry to rant & rave,

John IV
Message no. 19
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hydrostatic shock, etc.
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 20:44:37 -0400
On Sun, 14 Aug 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> Did I get the techniques used on the pressurized liquid O2 suits right? I
> figured that such a system is technically feasable. =)
>
> I was wondering, what happens if someone goes insane in a closed environ? What
> happens to them - do they get really strong (Str and Bod times TWO!), very,
> very resilient (all stun damage is halved! deadly damage is 3/4ths normal!)
> what...
>
> *grin*
>
> I wanna screw some players over.

Yes, the whole pressure at depth thing gets ugly. As long as the partial
pressure of oxygen is between 0.1 and 1.6 atmospheres, you're in the clear
(if you're in good condition and not exerting yourself.) Outside of
that, you suffer from Hypoxia or Hyperoxia, both of which will kill you.
Also, there are thermal considerations. Breathing heliox or trimix gas
mixtures is all well and fine, but helium sucks body heat out of your
lungs about ten times as fast as nitrogen. A breach in your suit at
1000-1500 meters would suck. Even if you didn't suffer from rapid
differential-induced implosion (the reverse of explosion, and much
messier), and even if you had an alternative air source, you would freeze
to death in a small amount of time.

As for what happens in a crisis/flip-out/berserk situation, just
run it as though the person in question has a Pain Editor. That makes
things real interesting.

Marc (What, Coffee? Are you trying to tell me that that was a Russian
Water tentacle!?)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Hydrostatic shock, etc., you may also be interested in:

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