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Message no. 1
From: ELFBOY <MBAKER@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Ice bullets?
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 19:28:23 EST
Jason Wright> I know it sounds crazy but I was told you can make ice
bullets. Anyone else ever hear
of them? The bennifit was supposed to be you get the kill and the
body heat melts the evidance.
Eb> I just pictured a Panther Assault Water Cannon with ice ammo.:-)
I don't know for sure, but I think the sudden heat from firing would
melt the bullet or cause it to shatter immediately. Maybe something
thicker than water. May I suggest Blood? Ha ha. Seriously, ice is a
good idea, but maybe other than water.
ELFBOY
"Eternal youth is yours, gift or curse, make of it
what you will."-Elfqueen
Message no. 2
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 17:00:21 +1100
ELFBOY writes:

> Jason Wright> I know it sounds crazy but I was told you can make ice
> bullets. Anyone else ever hear
> of them? The bennifit was supposed to be you get the kill and the
> body heat melts the evidance.
> Eb> I just pictured a Panther Assault Water Cannon with ice ammo.:-)
> I don't know for sure, but I think the sudden heat from firing would
> melt the bullet or cause it to shatter immediately. Maybe something
> thicker than water. May I suggest Blood? Ha ha. Seriously, ice is a
> good idea, but maybe other than water.

Would not the ice bullet get rather melted when it was fired? Bullets get
rather hot when they cruise down that barrel, (I've seen them come out the
end - at night they are quite noticeable). Ever touch the barrel of a weapon
after it's been fired a few times? It is very hot. The projectile would be
even hotter, so I don't think the idea would work, you'd be firing water or
steam at people.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 3
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 09:36:09 -0800
On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Damion Milliken wrote:

> Would not the ice bullet get rather melted when it was fired? Bullets get
> rather hot when they cruise down that barrel, (I've seen them come out the
> end - at night they are quite noticeable). Ever touch the barrel of a weapon
> after it's been fired a few times? It is very hot. The projectile would be
> even hotter, so I don't think the idea would work, you'd be firing water or
> steam at people.

Actually, you can make ice bullets.
Although the gun gets hot, the key parameter is time. There may
be a large amount of heat transfer, but it is not all going to occur in the
short time during the firing of the gun.
There are several forms of ice, Ice-I to Ice-IV at least (there
was a sci-fi novel based on the reputed properties of Ice-IX) and they
all have different hardness/tensile strengths. But one thing ice in all
forms share is a very large heat capacity. On the average ice has 3 to 5
times the latent heat capacity of a given metal.
Also, remembering our thermodynamics a lot of the heat of the
explosion (adiabatic expansion) is going to go into the work of
accelerating the bullet down the barrel.

> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au > >

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 4
From: Electron Dancer <C598706@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 20:34:13 CST
I hadn't thought about pure ice bullets, but here's a nasty system:

Weapon (I have three designs) has nitrogen cooling systems built into the
magazine and barrel. This keeps the weapon cool, helping in preventing barrel
bending (make sure you use the right barrel material!) and keeps the ammo cool.

The ammo is a sub-armor piercing round (made to get through armor, but not
have much energy left after doing so, and gets stuck in flesh). It has a
core made of a gel that is solid at liquid-N2 temps, but becomes very volatile
at body temp. Thus, as the round warms inside the target, the gel explodes.
To make it even nastier, the gel is highly toxic to the human system (like the
explosion wasn't...)

Effectively, they take damage three times: initial shot, explosion soon after,
and the poisoning within 12-24 hours. Never actually used the guns/ammo, but
they were seen once in the hands of an Ares Ultimate Threat Response Team.

Ideas? Comments?

--Trondo-->
Message no. 5
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 20:41:48 +1100
Trondo writes:

> Thus, as the round warms inside the target, the gel explodes.

The rest all sounds inherently evil, but would such a bullet explode as
violently as you predict? I'd have thought that it'd just liquify and then
evaporate rather quickly, but not have a sudden explosion.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 6
From: The Paladin <JWRIGHT@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 14:13:55 EST
>

> Ideas? Comments?
>
> --Trondo-->
>
I like the idea. Just as an after thought. Ice rounds can be made and
work. The ice must be made slightly smaller than a normal load so
as to not be shatered comeing out of the barrel. The heat of the
barrel is not going to melt the round since the by the time it takes for
the barrel to heat up the round is already left the weapon.



Nobility is not a birthright but a measure of ones actions

--- The Paladin ---
Message no. 7
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Ice bullets?
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 22:05:15 -0500
On Sun, 6 Nov 1994, Electron Dancer wrote:

> The ammo is a sub-armor piercing round (made to get through armor, but not
> have much energy left after doing so, and gets stuck in flesh). It has a
> core made of a gel that is solid at liquid-N2 temps, but becomes very volatile
> at body temp. Thus, as the round warms inside the target, the gel explodes.
> To make it even nastier, the gel is highly toxic to the human system (like the
> explosion wasn't...)

This is similair to an idea a friend and I came up with for a very messy,
but effective assassination method. You get a chump. You feed him about a
dozen 500mg Sodium Gelcaps (timed release) the gelcap dissolves, and the
Sodium reacts with the stomach acid. (Boom) rupturing all the others, if
they haven't already dissolved. 6 grams of sodium will provide a decent
sized exposion, even muffeled by the human body. If you're, say sitting
next to the target on a plane, you'll probably kill them. Or take a few
more and disable the plane... (ie, sit over the wing).

Kinda icky, but hey...

Shadow
Message no. 8
From: LSDodge d7582@*****.com
Subject: ice bullets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:24:28 -0400
Shed some light on this please, but someone (no names will be mentioned)
stated to me the idea of using ICE in a shotgun shell. I'm not sure how (or
if) that would work, but let me know the expert, or at least more
knowledgeable, opinion.
Message no. 9
From: lomion lomion@*********.or
Subject: ice bullets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:50:09 -0700
At 06:24 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Shed some light on this please, but someone (no names will be mentioned)
>stated to me the idea of using ICE in a shotgun shell. I'm not sure how (or
>if) that would work, but let me know the expert, or at least more
>knowledgeable, opinion.
>

how would you keep it from being all melted? Unless you used some sort of
dry ice i guess.

--lomion
Message no. 10
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: ice bullets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:38:11 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: lomion <lomion@*********.or>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: ice bullets


>At 06:24 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Shed some light on this please, but someone (no names will be
mentioned)
>>stated to me the idea of using ICE in a shotgun shell. I'm not sure
how (or
>>if) that would work, but let me know the expert, or at least more
>>knowledgeable, opinion.
>>
>
>how would you keep it from being all melted? Unless you used some
sort of
>dry ice i guess.


I've heard this argument about ten times already. It's based off the
"ice bullet" from that Keenan Ivory Wayans movie, right? All of the
arguments I've heard have resulted in a resounding "No way." If you
use pure ice, it'd melt the second the gunpowder was lit, among other
things.


AK404
http://freespeech.org/ak404/
Message no. 11
From: David Luebke luebkedw@***********.Edu
Subject: ice bullets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:38:00 -0700
-----Original Message-----
From: Angelkiller 404 <angelkiller404@**********.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: ice bullets



-----Original Message-----
From: lomion <lomion@*********.or>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Monday, October 25, 1999 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: ice bullets


>At 06:24 PM 10/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Shed some light on this please, but someone (no names will be
mentioned)
>>stated to me the idea of using ICE in a shotgun shell. I'm not sure
how (or
>>if) that would work, but let me know the expert, or at least more
>>knowledgeable, opinion.
>>
>
>how would you keep it from being all melted? Unless you used some
sort of
>dry ice i guess.


I've heard this argument about ten times already. It's based off the
"ice bullet" from that Keenan Ivory Wayans movie, right? All of the
arguments I've heard have resulted in a resounding "No way." If you
use pure ice, it'd melt the second the gunpowder was lit, among other
things.

AK404
http://freespeech.org/ak404/

One idea that came up from one of my friends is dry ice stored in styrofoam
until right before firing and then used a beefed up paintball gun. No
gunpowder
and the expanding gases would draw heat from the surrounding. So there is
no
heat generation.

-Nightshadow
Message no. 12
From: Dave Mowbray dave_mowbray@*****.com
Subject: ice bullets
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:52:11 -0400
From dcurtis@***.net Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:24:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drew Curtis dcurtis@***.net
Subject: Cyber dragon???

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 Airwasp@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/24/99 12:59:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> dghost@****.com writes:
>
> > > Remeber dragons are dual-natured. Cyberware on that level of
> > invasiveness
> > > would probably do some serious harm.
> >
> > Ghouls are dual ... Dragons would probably sensitive neural system flaw
> > ...
>
> IMo, the problem why dragons do not accept cyberware is due to perhaps two
> reasons that I can immediately think of at the moment. First, dragons do not
> follow current (SR) medical standards in terms of their nervous system, it is
> developed in too many other ways than what medical knowledge is capable of
> dealing with. Second, is that draconic minds think so much faster and on so
> many other levels of understanding that the cyberware does not have the
> processing power necessary to compensate for all o

Further Reading

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