| From: | Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | IEs and the Church |
| Date: | Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:41:42 -0400 |
lightly; this topic, dealing as it does with religion, is surely on thin
ice as it is so let's make sure the ice doesn't break, okay?
So when replying, take a few deep breaths before typing. Realize that we
aren't heretics, we're simply discussing an interesting theory or two.
Purely academic discussion. No fire and brimstones please. That means
both sides of the aisle.
Okay, now, here goes.
At 05:48 PM 4/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Erik J wrote:
><snip eerily cool .sig>
Thanks. I've got a couple of cool ones, thinks I.
>Hmm. maybe. You may be right in a rescinding of Freemason
>excommunication, but I believe it would only apply to the lowest levels,
>due to the fact that it gets more and more Satanic at the higher
>levels(CCD teacher last year(when we did all this before they got into
>Confirmation training involving the whole 'sanctifying grace'
>theme...grr. 7th was the only really fun year in CCD) said 33rd degree or
>something, but not sure if he was right on that count).
Okay, be careful there. The way you phrase that, is that they are Satanic,
without a doubt, thank you ma'am. There's a few friends of Masons and
probably even a Mason lurker or two on this list that would vehemently
disagree with that statement. I'm not a Mason, but I've researched them
heavily and I would disagree also. From all I can gather, the Masons and
their collected groups practice a form of Christianity different than
Catholocism. My thoughts lean towards their beliefs being closer to the
Cathar and/or Gnostic Christian beliefs.
And I believe the 33rd degree is supposedly called the Order of the
Argentum Astrum, or Silver Star. And it's not a degree in "official"
Freemasonry, which traditionally only has three degrees (in the most common
form, Scottish Rite, anyway).
That's really neither here nor there though. Point is, be careful of not
only what you say but how you phrase it.
And...as I'm
>writing this whilst reading...um, the intolerant(not really, but..)
>priests really have always seemed to me to be priests on the defensive
>due to the MASSIVE effect of pop culture here on the Jersey Shore.*shrug*
>who knows?
Pop culture has a massive affect not just in Jersey, but nearly everywhere.
Pop culture invades nearly everything. That's sometimes bad, sometimes
good. Sometimes it just doesn't ultimately matter. Organized religion, in
general, has had a decline in membership in the US for a number of years
now, for various reasons. That reaction you've noted is part of the
reaction to that drop in numbers. According to polls, vast numbers of
Americans believe in God, but not too many believe in organized religion.
Again, not really here nor there. Moving onto the SR part of the post...
otherwise...in another read...Ehran the Scribe maybe being
>Pope once or twice is a possibility. scary, but possible. 10 to 1 he was
>a big player at the Council of Nicea, in the Crusades, etc. Or maybe a
>saint like St. Thomas Aquinas(A personal favorite of mine, w/ the orig.
>St. Thomas&St. Patrick:), etc. A sickening theory to me is...maybe, in
>SR, he inspired the story of Christ! Doubtful, but...goes to show how
>such longlasting hierarchial and plain POWERFUL religions would be good
>for the IEs(EWW) cause.
As much as I hate the entire IE concept, this an interesting concept.
Problem is, in the Aztlan sourcebook, there is a conversation between some
IE's and the Big D that implies that they have been working to bring down
religion.
But for sake of argument, let's look at your thought. Where might IE's
have popped up? What, in all seriousness, might they have actually done in
relation to religion?
I'd vote against the Council of Nicea; in all honestly, when you look at
the rejected texts, they were interested in making Jesus into the son of
god, not a prophet or a man. This seems to go against the grain of the
IE's. That Council assembled the Bible, which defines religion for
millions upon millions of people. If the IE's wanted to bring down blind
faith and religion, it would occur to me that they would have pushed for
some of the Gnostic texts.
A saint? I suppose so, but it doesn't seem terribly likely. Since not all
of the saints were even devout Catholics, it's probably the most probable
possibility.
The pope? Doesn't strike me as an IE thing to do. It's possible (hell,
all this is possible, doesn't mean it's *probable* though...) but the
beliefs of the papacy seem to be at odds with the beliefs of the IEs.
The Crusades? Don't see it either. A bunch of humans butchering each
other might be nice for the IEs, but the end affect was the
re-establishment of connections between Western Europe and the Middle East
and beyond. Which kicked off the Reformation, the Renaissance, eventually
the Industrial Revolution up to today. If you don't have the Crusades when
you do, the Renaissance gets pushed back probably several hundred
years...which means the Industrial Revolution would only just be starting
and the American Revolution may never occur, or may just be starting.
Seems to go against IE goals of keeping all the power in their hands.
Hell, maybe they just weren't able to see that far ahead.
Ehran or another IE as Jesus the Christ, or the inspiration thereof?
Possible actually.
See, at that time Palestine was an occupied territory. The Hebrews had a
revolt against the Romans seemingly every few years or so. There were more
Roman soldiers in Palestine than any other Roman territory they were so
damn bothersome. So, as can be expected, there were a number of legends
and myths of a savior, or messiah, or christ (all three mean about the same
thing; Christ isn't a proper name any more than Savior is) would come and
throw off the Roman yoke and free the Hebrew people of Palestine. These
myths were pretty common, and everyone knew the signs. In all honesty, all
it would have taken was a clever man (or IE) to follow those myths and make
it look like they were the messiah. If the IE's had some measure of magic
available to them, that could explain the miracles that are attributed to
Jesus. So it is, in theory, possible. There is even some thought in the
RL that this is essentially what happened, but there's no proof one way or
another as near as I can tell.
In theory, this could also explain certain Gnostic texts that Jesus didn't
die on the cross, or the belief by the Merovingians and the Priory of Sion
that they protect the bloodline of the Christ (but actually protect a
single IE). Curious possibility.
But I see your point, that a powerful religion could be a tremendous tool
for an IE, or really, anyone else with powerful foresight. I just don't
see that the IEs really did take advantage of humanity that way. I think
for the most part they were more interested in biding their time until the
magic returned and seizing as much power as possible then.
I should note however that I am generally opposed to IEs being anyone
important or famous or having shaped human history in any way. I think
humanity is perfectly capable of both amazing feats and terrible disgrace,
and we need neither Immortal Elves or God(s) to help us with either. This
isn't to deny the existence of either, but rather to put the blame/praise
squarely upon our own frail shoulders.
Now, I hope those probably few people that deign to reply to this will
behave themselves. I know I've tried.
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
