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Message no. 1
From: Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Immortality
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:46:34 EST
My thanks to "Slippery Jim" (Harrisson fan meself) and well put.
The fame angle is truly a part of Shadowrun that seems to be ignored,
and I don't think it has to be. Anyone seen the James Bond
roleplaying game? They use a system of fame points. In the end
these almost act as experience ratings--they control recognition and
the degree of cooperation one can get. The recognition factor is
certainly important in SR--if the top cops know you on sight, things
can get a little interesting.....
The second type, described as the Highlander type, is the kind that
makes the most sense in the context of the game.

Speaking as a GM, the third type scares me drekless.

Keep rockin'

FIREPOWER
Message no. 2
From: Kyle Monroe <mk0648@*********.EDU>
Subject: Immortality
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:07:15 -0500
Idea- not all magically active individuals have the same capabilities to
interact with the mana. Thus you have adepts as well as your full blown
magicians. Perhaps this can be applied to the immortality issue. It has
been hypothesized in some of the SR novels that there is a specific gene
responsible for being a certain metatype. Perhaps some elves are more
magically receptive, thus gain the full benefits of being elven-
immortality- while others are more the mundane variety that will
eventually die. I can see the problem of having all elves being
immortal. Talk about a population problem!

A little off the SR topic, I would classify Highlanders as almost class
three immortals(but not quite THAT friggin' powerful) rather than class
two. Class twos don't age, but CAN be killed. Highlanders are fairly
resistant to physical damage except where the neck is concerned. To me,
this moves them out of class two, at least.

Kyle Monroe

>>>Glitch<<<
Message no. 3
From: The Decker <jmarg@****.FORTH.GR>
Subject: Immortality.
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 17:55:32 +0200
Okay, about the immortality thing... I'm quoting now, from the
Harlequin's Back adventure book, in which Harlequin's character sheet
states:
"Oh,heck,let's say it-Harlequin is effectively immortal. He is
immune to disease, pathogens, poisons, and age, and has existed
for more than 7,000 [years] ..."

Well, I think this worth discussing, since this is clearly *one*
being who is truly both immortal and ancient, *and* he is an elf... What
do you think, chummers?
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality.
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:10:10 -0600
On Mon, 30 Jan 1995, The Decker wrote:

> Okay, about the immortality thing... I'm quoting now, from the
> Harlequin's Back adventure book, in which Harlequin's character sheet
> states:
> "Oh,heck,let's say it-Harlequin is effectively immortal. He is
> immune to disease, pathogens, poisons, and age, and has existed
> for more than 7,000 [years] ..."
>
> Well, I think this worth discussing, since this is clearly *one*
> being who is truly both immortal and ancient, *and* he is an elf... What
> do you think, chummers?

You'll note he's not immune to bullets, buses, or bombs...

Imortality only exists if you don't get in the way...

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I am Pentium of Borg
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> you will be approximated
Message no. 5
From: Droopy <droopy@**.net>
Subject: Immortality
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:39:04 -0400
I had a strange thought while at work last night. (night turn is good for
strange thoughts.) I've condensed it into my theory on immortality.

All name givers are inherently capable of becoming immortal. The closer
your relationship with magic is, the longer you can live, barring lead
poisoning, etc. No special ritual or special gene is needed.

Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't fit the facts to my theory, so here it goes...

Elves live longer than all other name givers (except Dragons in SR) and they
are also more likely to be magicly active. This is because they are
innately closer to magic than the others.

Dragons, who are effectively immortal in every case are extremely magical in
nature. Enough said about them.

The study refered to in the Tir Tairngire book showed that the 'stopwatch
complex' is present in all name givers but is only fully developed in
certain elves. I'd bet that these elves are high level initiates.

Every known immortal is either an extremely powerfull elf or a Noforastu
<sp>. In either case the subject is extremely close to magic.

Under this theory, any name giver can become immortal if they are an adept
(ED reference) and have enough time to reach a level that will start to
extend their life. This isn't an on/off kind of thing, but rather gradualy
extending. This also means that there is no real endpoint where true
immortality is reached.

Due to time constraints, it would be nearly impossible for an Ork or Troll
to accomplish such a state and continue growing fast enough to get ahead of
the aging. Humans and even elves have to push the envelope through outside
help to achieve this.

Just a theory.....


--Droopy
Message no. 6
From: Dark Jester <tene@****.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:26:31 +0100
In article <1.5.4.16.19960726203906.3fff2144@********.nb.net>, Droopy
<droopy@**.net> writes
>Due to time constraints, it would be nearly impossible for an Ork or Troll
>to accomplish such a state and continue growing fast enough to get ahead of
>the aging. Humans and even elves have to push the envelope through outside
>help to achieve this.
It has merits, and certainly a creature who lives for 400+ years anyway,
an elf, is going to have an advantage over others.

Why then is Hessler in "Black Madonna" old? Surely he should by like
the other immortals, frozen in the prime of life. Unless he's not an
immortal at all, but a _very very_ early spike baby?
he he he
The Dark Jester

Et T <tene@****.demon.co.uk>
Message no. 7
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:22:37 GMT
Dark Jester writes

> >Due to time constraints, it would be nearly impossible for an Ork or Troll
> >to accomplish such a state and continue growing fast enough to get ahead of
> >the aging. Humans and even elves have to push the envelope through outside
> >help to achieve this.
> It has merits, and certainly a creature who lives for 400+ years anyway,
> an elf, is going to have an advantage over others.
>
> Why then is Hessler in "Black Madonna" old?
raises questions, but there are multiple possible answers.

> Surely he should by like
> the other immortals, frozen in the prime of life.
some of that could in theory be illusion magic try the things gotten
away with in worlds without end, these folks have the equivalent of
enough initiation grades to mask a forest of quickenings etc (and
better stuff based on ED thread magic presumably)

> Unless he's not an
> immortal at all, but a _very very_ early spike baby?
quite possible.
There are actually stats for this guy in Prime runners but whether
they are really compatible with Black Madona is inevitably debateable
though they are powerful magically.

He obviously is in on the immortals circle, he has known Leo for a
long time (one of them admits as much) probably more so that Lady
Brainge Deigh given her reaction to Harlequin and Ania managing to
summon half of the wild hunt in Worlds without end (would have taken
half her court to do it! and given she would have Tir Na Nog path of
the Righ initiates available thats some going(for those that haven't
seen those stats even FASA issue warnings about the power level of
the game mechanics))

A 400-500 year old spike baby is possible given the power SR
attibutes to some of the sites in England if his family intentionally
lived on the side of a major mana spike equalling one of the buried
stone cirles that 'sprouted' out of the ground at the awakening. I
suspect though he is probably 4th age, though anythings possible.

It is of course possible that even FASA have not worked out
everything behind immortals, like what will and won't create them etc
simply because the chances of PC's messing about with magic on that
level even in Earthdanwn are slim though they almost certainly have
decided on more than they let out.

> he he he
> The Dark Jester
>
> Et T <tene@****.demon.co.uk>
>
: um .... :

any more guesses?

Mark
Message no. 8
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:36:21 -0600 (CST)
The theory is sound, but I dissagree that Orks and Trolls are unable to
acheive this virtual immortality. The spirit is a transitional energy that
can acheive much more that the accomplishments of a single lifetime. The
spirit of a full fledged mage has ammassed more magical energy over
lifetimes than say, an adept. The reason vampires get more is that they
steal it from their victims. Dragons don't just start out being immortal,
they grow into it. A troll mage can, even in hostile situations, live long
enough to capture a slower metabolism. Buddist monks concentrate their lives
on developing this longevity, therefore live longer. Since the monks aren't,
necessarily, magically active, they have a hard time ammassing enough energy
to become immortal. Elves in SR and D&D are annoying. They get bonuses
without penalties, powers without a price-tag. I feel that the orks, trolls,
and dwarves in SRII get screwed. I am on a mission to change that.

Ahzmandius
Message no. 9
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:07:58 -0500 (CDT)
Ahzmandius wrote:
> to become immortal. Elves in SR and D&D are annoying. They get bonuses
> without penalties, powers without a price-tag. I feel that the orks, trolls,
> and dwarves in SRII get screwed. I am on a mission to change that.

Are you talking about as PC's or not? But let's take a look at 'em:

Humans: no special bonuses, but they outnumber everyone else.

Dwarves: short, thermo vision, some stat modifiers, resistance to
poisons, minimal prejudice, (mostly seen as gruff, hardworking types)

Orks: short (compared to human) lifespans, low light vision, a lot of stat
modifiers. Ugly. High levels of prejudice.

Trolls: just plain huge, thermo vision, a lot of stat modifiers, extra
reach, dermal armor, UGLY, lots of prejudice. Probably the same lifespan
problems as Orks.

Elves: seen as the most beautiful of the metatypes, some stat mods, low
light vision, 400 year lifespans for most elves, some have Immortality.
Prejudice against them from 2 directions <1. "dandylion eater"
stereotype, 2. "Elf Nazi" stereotypes from the Tirs> They're also usually
manipulated by the Elven Illuminatii.

Actually, the metatype that makes out like a bandit are the dwarves.
People are paranoids about the elves, and hate the orks and trolls, but
the dwarves just go along, minding their own business. As the dwarf PC in
my game put it, "even if there were Immortal Dwarves, they wouldn't ponce
around making trouble like the elves do."

--
Rick Jones Vinnie and Hawk lounged in the theater lobby,
rick@******.com blending in to the theatrical scene like two
Meyrick@***.com coyotes at a poultry festival.
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Spenser, Paper Doll
Message no. 10
From: Hairy Smurf <ab130f92@*******.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 00:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:26 7/26/96 +0100, you wrote:
>In article <1.5.4.16.19960726203906.3fff2144@********.nb.net>, Droopy
><droopy@**.net> writes
>>Due to time constraints, it would be nearly impossible for an Ork or Troll
>>to accomplish such a state and continue growing fast enough to get ahead of
>>the aging. Humans and even elves have to push the envelope through outside
>>help to achieve this.
>It has merits, and certainly a creature who lives for 400+ years anyway,
>an elf, is going to have an advantage over others.
>
>Why then is Hessler in "Black Madonna" old? Surely he should by like
>the other immortals, frozen in the prime of life. Unless he's not an
>immortal at all, but a _very very_ early spike baby?
>he he he
>The Dark Jester
>
>Et T <tene@****.demon.co.uk>
>

Not quite. If everone could become immortal they would reach that state at
differnet time in their lives. It could be that it's like the Highlander
immortals. They reatain the apprearance of when they became immortal. If you
attain it young then you look it. Hessler could have been a slow learner. :)

Sasquatch

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Message no. 11
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:01:00 +0100
> Ahzmandius wrote:
> > to become immortal. Elves in SR and D&D are annoying. They get bonuses
> > without penalties, powers without a price-tag. I feel that the orks, trolls,
> > and dwarves in SRII get screwed. I am on a mission to change that.

No price tag? How about the need to spend their A priority on race? The
fact that their racial modifiers add up to +3 like for the other races?

Okay, you can use the More Metahumans rule to make on at priority C, but
the only time you're better off taking a metahuman if you want high stats,
is by assigning priority E to Attributes.
In the end, it comes out rather even, if you ask me, especially taking in
the racism factor.

Rick Jones said on 11:07/26 Jul 96...

> Actually, the metatype that makes out like a bandit are the dwarves.
> People are paranoids about the elves, and hate the orks and trolls, but
> the dwarves just go along, minding their own business. As the dwarf PC in
> my game put it, "even if there were Immortal Dwarves, they wouldn't ponce
> around making trouble like the elves do."

Anyone still have that immortal dwarves post? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Totally confused all the passing piranhas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:18:02 -0600 (CST)
Ok, let's assume (a dangerous proposition) that we were to generate an elf mage:
a: magic
b:resources
c:race
d:attributes
e:skills

this roughly works out as follows:
B:1
Q:5(6)
S:1
C:1(3)
I:5
W:4
Reaction:5

Nuyen:400,000
Force Points:35

This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.


Ahz
Message no. 13
From: John Wicker <jrwick00@********.uky.edu>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:19:29 -0400 (EDT)
>B:1
>Q:5(6)
>S:1
>C:1(3)
>I:5
>W:4
>Reaction:5
[snip]
>This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
>equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
>is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
>mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
>play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.

Uh, the sentiment is nice, but any character with a body of *1* is headed
for the morgue. The first corpgeek with a light pistol and a lucky roll is
going to send you back to character generation. Remember the first rule of
SR combat:

GEEK THE MAGE!!!!

This rant brought to you by:

John Wicker
Message no. 14
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:14:43 +0100
Ahzmandius said on 13:18/27 Jul 96...

> this roughly works out as follows:
> B:1
> Q:5(6)
> S:1
> C:1(3)
> I:5
> W:4
> Reaction:5
[snip]
>
> This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
> equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
> is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
> mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
> play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.

Just about the only thig I could live with here is the 1 point in
Charisma. If given 17 Attribute points I certainly wouldn't distribute
them like that if I want my character to have half a chance of surviving
the first combat he gets into.

More like B Q S C I W R
3 2(3) 2 1(3) 4 5 3 for an elf mage.

Then put 5 or 6 skill points into Sorcery, 3 or 4 to Conjuring, 2 or 3 in
Firearms, and the rest is both useful and useless skills.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't tell me you've found the answer because then another one will come
along soon.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Message no. 15
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:12:30 +1000 (EST)
On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Droopy wrote:

> I had a strange thought while at work last night. (night turn is good for
> strange thoughts.) I've condensed it into my theory on immortality.

> Every known immortal is either an extremely powerfull elf or a Noforastu
> <sp>. In either case the subject is extremely close to magic.

What about Jane Foster (Ehran's daughter)? She's immortal, and far from
'an extermely powerful elf'.

Ray.
Message no. 16
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:15:53 +1000 (EST)
On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

> this roughly works out as follows:
> B:1
> Q:5(6)
> S:1
> C:1(3)
> I:5
> W:4
> Reaction:5
>
> Nuyen:400,000
> Force Points:35
>
> This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
> equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
> is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
> mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
> play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.

How do you muchkinise with a mage that has a willpower of 4? And a body
of 1?

Ray.
Message no. 17
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:09:48 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:
>
>> this roughly works out as follows:
>> B:1
>> Q:5(6)
>> S:1
>> C:1(3)
>> I:5
>> W:4
>> Reaction:5
>>
>> Nuyen:400,000
>> Force Points:35
>>
>> This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
>> equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
>> is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
>> mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
>> play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.
>
> How do you muchkinise with a mage that has a willpower of 4? And a body
>of 1?
>
> Ray.
>
With spells and spell locks.

Ahzmandius
Message no. 18
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 00:18:33 -0600 (CST)
The thing that you all seem to be forgetting is that the stats are actually
a very small part of your character. The biggest resource for power comes
from being an experienced player. I had a Elf Druid (moon) who, on his first
run was cornered by a gang, the Halloweeners I believe, and was in deep
do-do. What he did instead of trying to be a street sam, was to find the
ganger that had his machine pistol pointed at the back of another ganger and
use Magic fingers to make him shoot him, at the same time cast invisibility
in himself and the other runner (a sam) and beat feet. I geeked the rest a
few hours later from a rooftop with a shotgun and a few choice spells. My
driud had increase reaction 3 and increased reflexes 3 locked onto rings (2
karma) and a whole lot of smarts, at least until he became a vampire (or
banshee). Brain > Braun

Ahzmandius
Message no. 19
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:17:31 -0600
Ahz wrote:

>Ok, let's assume (a dangerous proposition) that we were to generate an elf mage:
>a: magic

[snip a bit]

>mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
>play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.
>

And your point is????

How does this relate to your Elves are unfair rant? The observation is
valid (reguarding the need of charaters to work as a _team_) but has
nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We don't know what you are
thinking, so either post it clearly or sit down and be quiet.

Piatro
Message no. 20
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:17:21 -0600
>The theory is sound, but I dissagree that Orks and Trolls are unable to
>acheive this virtual immortality. The spirit is a transitional energy that
>can acheive much more that the accomplishments of a single lifetime. The
>spirit of a full fledged mage has ammassed more magical energy over
>lifetimes than say, an adept. The reason vampires get more is that they

OK, Were are you getting this reincarnation drek? If "spirits" accumulate
magical power from life to life, why are there mundanes at all? Given the
accumulation of magical energy there must be a source of new "spirits" that
we see as people with no magical tallent. If you have FASA sources for any
of this please share them with the list. Otherwise, the theory just doesn't
hold up.


>steal it from their victims. Dragons don't just start out being immortal,
>they grow into it. A troll mage can, even in hostile situations, live long
>enough to capture a slower metabolism. Buddist monks concentrate their lives
>on developing this longevity, therefore live longer. Since the monks aren't,
>necessarily, magically active, they have a hard time ammassing enough energy
>to become immortal. Elves in SR and D&D are annoying. They get bonuses
>without penalties, powers without a price-tag. I feel that the orks, trolls,
>and dwarves in SRII get screwed. I am on a mission to change that.
>
>Ahzmandius

And how has FASA responded to your efforts? :)

Piatro
Message no. 21
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 02:23:02 -0600
Ahzmandius wrote:

[snip]

>in himself and the other runner (a sam) and beat feet. I geeked the rest a
>few hours later from a rooftop with a shotgun and a few choice spells. My
>driud had increase reaction 3 and increased reflexes 3 locked onto rings (2
>karma) and a whole lot of smarts, at least until he became a vampire (or
>banshee). Brain > Braun
>

I must have missed that one. How tall was the building?

Piatro
Message no. 22
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 96 11:11:08 EST
On Sat, 27 Jul 1996, Ahzmandius wrote:

> this roughly works out as follows:
> B:1
> Q:5(6)
> S:1
> C:1(3)
> I:5
> W:4
> Reaction:5
>
> Nuyen:400,000
> Force Points:35
>
> This leaves enough for the character to get mondo spells/foci and enough
> equipment to munchkinize properly. Yes, this ain't no street sam, but that
> is why you make mages AND street sams. They have to work as a team. The
> mages skills are in spellasting, not in SMG. Remember that it is HOW you
> play the character that determines the effectiveness, not the stats.

How do you muchkinise with a mage that has a willpower of 4? And a body
of 1?

Ray.

-----------
Spell locks: improve body +4, improve willpower +4,Improve
Reflexes+3d6.....trauma demper [ok so it costs essence..it's worth
it!!]....
I'd have taken willpower 6 though....and a higher charisma.. there is
no point in playing an ugly elf... then play a troll instead. :)
F.
Message no. 23
From: Marc Lipshitz <MLIPSHIT@****.CO.ZA>
Subject: Immortality -Reply
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:51:20 +0200
>>> Droopy <droopy@**.net> 26/July/1996 02:39am >>>
I had a strange thought while at work last night. (night turn is good for
strange thoughts.) I've condensed it into my theory on immortality.
All name givers are inherently capable of becoming immortal. The closer
your relationship with magic is, the longer you can live, barring lead
poisoning, etc. No special ritual or special gene is needed.
Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't fit the facts to my theory, so here it goes...
Elves live longer than all other name givers (except Dragons in SR) and
they are also more likely to be magicly active. This is because they are
innately closer to magic than the others.
Dragons, who are effectively immortal in every case are extremely
magical in nature. Enough said about them.
The study refered to in the Tir Tairngire book showed that the 'stopwatch
complex' is present in all name givers but is only fully developed in certain
elves. I'd bet that these elves are high level initiates.
Every known immortal is either an extremely powerfull elf or a Noforastu
<sp>. In either case the subject is extremely close to magic.
Under this theory, any name giver can become immortal if they are an
adept(ED reference) and have enough time to reach a level that will start
to extend their life. This isn't an on/off kind of thing, but rather gradualy
extending. This also means that there is no real endpoint where true
immortality is reached.
Due to time constraints, it would be nearly impossible for an Ork or Troll to
accomplish such a state and continue growing fast enough to get ahead
of the aging. Humans and even elves have to push the envelope through
outside help to achieve this.
Just a theory.....
******************************

Fits in nicely with Earthdawn theory, but I can see an intrinsic component
of becoming immortal being the tying of some underlying item/
geographical feature/ fellow immortal into ones own pattern. In
Shadowrun I see this as being part of a magical ritual, in which LARGE
amounts of karma are spent to imbue your aura with some elements of
the affected item, and vice versa.
Just my 2c
Marc
Message no. 24
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:40:17 -0600 (CST)
>And your point is????
>
>How does this relate to your Elves are unfair rant? The observation is
>valid (reguarding the need of charaters to work as a _team_) but has
>nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We don't know what you are
>thinking, so either post it clearly or sit down and be quiet.
>
>Piatro
>
>
My point being that elves start with a butt-load of bonus', but orks,
trolls, dwarves all get minus' to stats that they need (if we are to assume
that stats are imortant to gameplay), but elves only get pluses. Granted,
they all equal out to a net of +3, barring allergies, etc. Humans get better
generating stats, but, in the long run, get overrun buy elves. I AM just
bitching, but I get annoyed with people who complain too much about how
(fill in the blank) get screwed, because they remind me of me (see sams VS
adepts link)

Ahz
Message no. 25
From: rhoded01@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Ahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:42:50 -0600 (CST)
>Ahzmandius wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>in himself and the other runner (a sam) and beat feet. I geeked the rest a
>>few hours later from a rooftop with a shotgun and a few choice spells. My
>>driud had increase reaction 3 and increased reflexes 3 locked onto rings (2
>>karma) and a whole lot of smarts, at least until he became a vampire (or
>>banshee). Brain > Braun
>>
>
>I must have missed that one. How tall was the building?
>
>Piatro
>

3 stories.
>

Further Reading

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