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Message no. 1
From: Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Immortality/elven
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:56:33 EST
Pardon me. the discussion has gotten completely out of hand....
All of you flamers <your term not mine> relax. The statement made
was that Elves are immortal. No need to explode like an IPE gren.

1. In most books elves are immortal. This started with the tales of
the Sidhe in Celtic mythos, and continues. Elves live in their own
shadowland beyon mortal ken: they are NOT human--often terribly so.
The elven races described by Tolkien also were immortal. One of the
finest modern characterizations I found in the new trilogy "Memory,
Sorrow and Thorn" by Tad Williams. Both of the 2 disparate elven
races in the series were immortal.

PLEASE NOTE---- Immortal does not mean that they cannot die.
Gunfire or focused paranormal energies kill one as easily as you or
me. Therefore immortality is effectively covered under the heading
Immunity;Age in the Critter sec. of the SR sourcebook.

2. Please remember that this is a GAME. In my games the GM
makes the rules. Sure, Homo Nobilus is a metaspecies of humanity,
and therefore technically human. However, nothing says that there
cannot be other Elven species. As outrageous as this may sound,
USE YOUR FRAGGIN' IMAGINATION.

Remember--a game is not real life. The end purpose of any game is
very simply to have FUN. Please remember that.

"Something does not have to be real to be true. Dreams and tales are
shadow truths that will endure when mere fact is dust and ashes, and
forgot."

Kage.
FIREPOWER.
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 20:33:44 -0400
>>>>> "Firepower" == Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.edu>
writes:

Firepower> PLEASE NOTE---- Immortal does not mean that they cannot die.
Firepower> Gunfire or focused paranormal energies kill one as easily as you
Firepower> or me. Therefore immortality is effectively covered under the
Firepower> heading Immunity; Age in the Critter sec. of the SR sourcebook.

This brings up something that some friends of mine came up with a long time
ago, the three types of immortality:

Type I: Fame. This is the easiest form of immortality, as it is potentially
attainable by anyone. Though you have died, you have achieved fame (or
infamy) and are remembered long after you are gone. Examples: performers
(Elvis), statemen (Thomas Jefferson), explorers (Neil Armstrong), etc.

Type II: Ageless. Somewhat more difficult to attain, there are no
historically recorded Type II Immortals. A Type II Immortal simply doesn't
age. Either he reaches a cutoff point and stops aging, or just keeps on
going and going. A Type II Immortal can be killed, he just won't die of old
age. Examples: so-called "Highlanders" (Ramirez), elves of all sorts,
Detians, etc.

Type III: Ressurection. The most difficult form of immortality, this is
usually reserved for deities and their close offspring, or other similar
Cosmic Beings. A Type III Immortal cannot be killed, or if killed will
eventually come back. He just will not stay dead, no matter what you do.
Examples: deific entities (Jesus Christ), Cosmic Beings (Unicron), etc.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Message no. 3
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:49:18 -0400
OK, I have decided to join this discussion on the immortality of elves.
I have seen posts alluding to the fact that elves cannot die by OLD AGE (
didn't want anyone to miss that) I would like to point out that sources
were mentioned in "proving" elves can't die ( by age) Synopsis complete

My thoughts...
Elves are long lived, but will not live forever. Instead of death they
experience a type "transfer" to another dimension. This is usually
achieved by some mode of transport. (read Mallory's Morte
D'Arthur...Arthur's death) However, this only happens at the end of old
age (whatever that means), elves shot, magicked or killed by falling
safes, are just plain and simple dead.

Enough on what I believe...

Believe what ya' wanna... I will run my game my way, and you yours.

gonna sign off now, my brain hurts

Nigel
Water, water everywhere
Her panties in the sink
Water water everywhere
What a lovely shade of pink
Jerry Lee Colridge
Message no. 4
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 15:35:43 EST
> Type II: Ageless. Somewhat more difficult to attain, there are no
> historically recorded Type II Immortals. A Type II Immortal simply
doesn't
> age. Either he reaches a cutoff point and stops aging, or just keeps
on
> going and going. A Type II Immortal can be killed, he just won't die
of old
> age. Examples: so-called "Highlanders" (Ramirez), elves of all
sorts,
> Detians, etc.
>
Problam with this classification is it does not take into account
immortals that CAN be killed, but only in certain ways. You
mentioned the "Highlanders". True they can be killed, but only in a
certain way. Same with true vampires. They do not age, but are not
killed as easily as other immortals. The elven immortals we have
been talking about can be killed any way, they simply do not age.
The other two examples do not age and also regenerate, rise from a
seemingly deadly experiance, etc. :-)



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Immortality/elven
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 21:43:48 -0500
>>>>> "Shadowdancer" == Shadowdancer
<BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU> writes:

>> Type II: Ageless.

Shadowdancer> Problam with this classification is it does not take into
Shadowdancer> account immortals that CAN be killed, but only in certain
Shadowdancer> ways.

Sure it does. A Type II Immortal, is any kind of entity that just keeps on
ticking unless someone or something makes an active attempt to terminate
life functions. Some things are harder to kill or keep dead than others,
but anything that can be killed and kept dead shares that one trait with
everything else that can be killed and kept dead. That's the primary
distinction between Type II and Type III Immortals: Type III immortals
either cannot be killed, or cannot be kept dead.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 6
From: The Dragon <JMEYER@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 20:40:53 EST
> Pardon me. the discussion has gotten completely out of hand....
> All of you flamers <your term not mine> relax. The statement made
> was that Elves are immortal. No need to explode like an IPE gren.
>
> 1. In most books elves are immortal. This started with the tales of
> the Sidhe in Celtic mythos, and continues. Elves live in their own
> shadowland beyon mortal ken: they are NOT human--often terribly
so.
>
> PLEASE NOTE---- Immortal does not mean that they cannot die.
> Gunfire or focused paranormal energies kill one as easily as you or
> me. Therefore immortality is effectively covered under the heading
> Immunity;Age in the Critter sec. of the SR sourcebook.
>
> 2. Please remember that this is a GAME. In my games the GM
> makes the rules. Sure, Homo Nobilus is a metaspecies of
humanity,
> and therefore technically human. However, nothing says that there
> cannot be other Elven species. As outrageous as this may sound,
> USE YOUR FRAGGIN' IMAGINATION.

> Remember--a game is not real life. The end purpose of any game is
> very simply to have FUN. Please remember that.
>
This has to be one of the most intelligent statements made on this
lIst. Thank you Firepower

Lead, follow, Do what cha like, but stay out of MY way!
-------The Dragon--------
Message no. 7
From: Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 16:28:38 EST
<admiring statements from the Dragon>

Thank you very much--I appreciate that. I do not share my friend
Magister's opinion of you, and for fifty bucks will kill his character in
truly evil ways....
Firepower
Message no. 8
From: The Dragon <JMEYER@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Immortality/elven
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 18:11:17 EST
> <admiring statements from the Dragon>
>
> Thank you very much--I appreciate that. I do not share my friend
> Magister's opinion of you, and for fifty bucks will kill his character in
> truly evil ways....
> Firepower
I believe that Magister and I have things smoothed out and I was want
ing to know how to get into one of your RUNS that would make me
Grin real big. I don't get to play much and would like to play more
(Duh) .

Lead, follow, Do what cha like, but stay out of MY way!
-------The Dragon--------

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