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Message no. 1
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:42:19 -0400
While going over the rules detailing the dangers of wired reflexes
sans reflex trigger, it occurred to me that adepts don't exactly have
anything to control their enhanced reflexes (i.e, an adept with
improved reflexes + 2 has a +2 to reaction and +2d6 to initiative all
the time). Does this make them any more or less controlled than a
street sam with raw wires or not? Also, improved reflexes aren't
compatible with anything that increases initiative. Does this include
Enhanced Articulation and Reaction Enhancers?

On the physical adept power of hearing amplification: can a physical
adept control how 'loud' things get like the volume control on a radio
or are things always loud for him? Right now I'm making an adept with
hearing amplification, a select sound filter (5), high and
low-frequency hearing, and a sound dampener, but I'm not exactly sure
what the high/low-freq powers would do, nor do I think that sound
dampening would be necessary, not if he can selectively block out
certain background noises.

Random stupid newbie GM questions:

Is the Remington Roomsweeper a Heavy Pistol, a Shotgun, or both? What
skill applies when using one?

What calculating costs for equipment and lifestyle, what is eligible
for dwarf and troll-customization? So far, I've done weapons, armor,
vehicles and lifestyle. Anything else?

How much skill does it take to pop an internal smartlink into a weapon
if you have the appropriate B/R skill? How about customization? How
about improving the performance of a weapon (like boosting the power
level)? Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass
catcher? How much would a brass catcher cost?

What's the difference between an electronics kit and a microtronics
kit? Can a disguise kit be considered a general tool kit for game
purposes?

If a troll looks through a pair of binoculars with a thermographic
option, does she use her natural thermographic vision modifiers or the
binoculars' artificial thermographic vision modifiers?

Lastly, does anyone have a picture of an Ares Roadmaster? I'm
thinking a big semi with a trailer, but I can't be too certain. How
about a Hyundai Offroader? A Suzuki Watersport? A Ford Americar? I
take it these are in the RBB1, but I can't find that book anywhere.

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 2
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 00:53:19 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Angelkiller 404."
] While going over the rules detailing the dangers of wired reflexes
] sans reflex trigger, it occurred to me that adepts don't exactly have
] anything to control their enhanced reflexes (i.e, an adept with
] improved reflexes + 2 has a +2 to reaction and +2d6 to initiative all
] the time). Does this make them any more or less controlled than a
] street sam with raw wires or not?

I'd say they can control it. Reason? Well, the Samurai's wires are
invasive, foreign material, the Adept's powers are natural, coming
"from within." So it's like they have a Reflex Trigger, but they don't
have to turn it on or off.

] Also, improved reflexes aren't compatible with anything that
] increases initiative. Does this include Enhanced Articulation
] and Reaction Enhancers?

Yup. Get out your munchkin-spray, here they come!

] On the physical adept power of hearing amplification: can a physical
] adept control how 'loud' things get like the volume control on a radio
] or are things always loud for him? Right now I'm making an adept with
] hearing amplification, a select sound filter (5), high and
] low-frequency hearing, and a sound dampener, but I'm not exactly sure
] what the high/low-freq powers would do, nor do I think that sound
] dampening would be necessary, not if he can selectively block out
] certain background noises.

Are you using these as Adept powers or using the cyber versions? I
wouldn't say the Select Sound Filter (cyber or power) can totally block
out noise, so the Damper is still necessary. I'd say that Hearing Amp
doesn't always have to be on, in fact I make the Adept in my game
concentrate to use it. I don't know about the High/Low Freq
powers/ware, it would be plenty helpful if FASA could list some noises
that might be in those ranges (there's dog whistles, but the fourth or
fifth time the Adept runs into that, they're gonna get bored with the power).

] Random stupid newbie GM questions:

Random newbie GM questions:

] Is the Remington Roomsweeper a Heavy Pistol, a Shotgun, or both? What
] skill applies when using one?

Shotgun using Heavy Pistol ranges.

] What calculating costs for equipment and lifestyle, what is eligible
] for dwarf and troll-customization? So far, I've done weapons, armor,
] vehicles and lifestyle. Anything else?

Cyberware? Probably not...melee weapons, some of the security
devices on p. 294 of SR3, some survival gear, and perhaps the biotech
stuff. There's an interesting point...why would a Slap Patch have the
same effect on a very big person as a very small one, or any medicine,
for that matter?

] How much skill does it take to pop an internal smartlink into a weapon
] if you have the appropriate B/R skill? How about customization? How
] about improving the performance of a weapon (like boosting the power
] level)? Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass
] catcher? How much would a brass catcher cost?

I don't know. Hopefully there'll be some info on gun B/R in The
Cannon Companion. 'Til then, there's always the resident gun
enthusiasts to talk about this 'til kingdom come ;)

] What's the difference between an electronics kit and a microtronics
] kit? Can a disguise kit be considered a general tool kit for game
] purposes?

Uhh...sure? Can't see why not.

] If a troll looks through a pair of binoculars with a thermographic
] option, does she use her natural thermographic vision modifiers or the
] binoculars' artificial thermographic vision modifiers?

I think the only way binoculars can be thermographic is through
electronics, so I'd use the binocular's modifiers.

] Lastly, does anyone have a picture of an Ares Roadmaster? I'm
] thinking a big semi with a trailer, but I can't be too certain. How
] about a Hyundai Offroader? A Suzuki Watersport? A Ford Americar? I
] take it these are in the RBB1, but I can't find that book anywhere.

Roadmaster...think of a big toolbox with four wheels and square
windows. Of course, that's going by the RBB drawings...I can't stand
those drawings. Unfortunately, I have yet to see the R2 versions.

Being a newbie GM too, I wish you luck, and have fun (it ain't
playing, but at least it's Shadowrun).

-Murder of One

To: All Employees
From: Human Resources
Subject: Short Term Disability benefit plan
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We are pleased to make available to you an
additional opportunity to enroll in the Voluntary
STD benefit option."
Message no. 3
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
> While going over the rules detailing the dangers of wired reflexes
sans reflex trigger, it occurred to me that adepts don't exactly have
anything to control their enhanced reflexes (i.e, an adept with
improved reflexes + 2 has a +2 to reaction and +2d6 to initiative all
the time). Does this make them any more or less controlled than a
street sam with raw wires or not?

You may have a point, but as I've already argued once before on the
list, I think that the magic doesn't just juice them up, it allows them
to THINK at the appropriate speed, as well as react. For your question,
I'd say that the power has an innate "trigger". That's how I run it.
YMMV.

> Also, improved reflexes aren't compatible with anything that
increases initiative. Does this include Enhanced Articulation and
Reaction Enhancers?

Are you sure it says initiative, or does it say that it isn't
compatible with anything that adds additional initiative dice? I think
it's the latter - or at least, that's how it's supposed to be
interpreted. IOW, anything that enhances base reaction is fine -
anything that adds extra dice is not.

> On the physical adept power of hearing amplification: can a physical
adept control how 'loud' things get like the volume control on a radio
or are things always loud for him?

Errr...look at your question. "Are things always loud for him?" If they
were, no physad would get that power - you just couldn't live with it.
Same with (if not more so) enhanced smell. :) And other powers. It's
never explicitly stated, but I always run it that things like that have
a magical "on-off" switch.

> Right now I'm making an adept with hearing amplification, a select
sound filter (5)

Is this something that a physad could get? I've always thought it'd
require some kind of technology that can't be magically approximated.
Could be wrong, of course.

> high and low-frequency hearing, and a sound dampener, but I'm not
exactly sure what the high/low-freq powers would do, nor do I think
that sound dampening would be necessary, not if he can selectively
block out certain background noises.

No - the blocking power is a conscious thing. You have to decide what
to block out. A sudden, loud noise doesn't give you that chance. That's
what sound dampening is for.

As for the high/low, it's the same as for the cybernetic version. It
allows him to hear high and low frequency sounds - the GM just has to
decide what exactly he hears when he's listening for that kinda thing.

> Random stupid newbie GM questions:
>
> Is the Remington Roomsweeper a Heavy Pistol, a Shotgun, or both?
What skill applies when using one?

It's actually a sawn-off shotgun, IIRC, but in all respects it's
treated as a heavy pistol - except that it can alternate between shot
and slug (a heavy pistol can do exactly the same stuff with flechette
and regular ammo, but flechettes are different to shot rounds for
purchasing purposes, although they're the same damage-wise).

> What calculating costs for equipment and lifestyle, what is eligible
for dwarf and troll-customization? So far, I've done weapons, armor,
vehicles and lifestyle. Anything else?

Not off the top of my head, but think about it. Anything you want to
hold in your hands (a lot of electronics gear) could probably use the
treatment. Anything you want to sit on, in, walk under, walk over, etc.
etc. Apart from the ones you've mentioned, and possibly electronics, I
wouldn't worry about anything else. Just treat it on a case by case
basis.

> How much skill does it take to pop an internal smartlink into a
weapon if you have the appropriate B/R skill?

No skill requirement - just like anything else you have to decide how
difficult it is - IOW, pick a target number. I'd pick a 6 or 7 for that
one, probably.

> How about customization?

Nothing set. As above.

> How about improving the performance of a weapon (like boosting the
power level)?

You ALLOW that? IMO, it ain't a good idea for game balance. If you
really want to do it, you could have them boost the calibre of the
weapon, which would require changing the barrel, the clips, the ammo
feed and probably other stuff. If that's possible, which I couldn't
say. If you really want to let your players do that, I'd say have them
create a new weapon (which they can base on an existing weapon).

> Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass catcher?
How much would a brass catcher cost?

Because caseless clips can hold 20% more shots. That's why. Not much. I
don't think. How expensive are they these days?

> What's the difference between an electronics kit and a microtronics
kit?

Microtronics is for cyberware and computers, IIRC. Electronics is for
other electronic stuff.

> Can a disguise kit be considered a general tool kit for game
purposes?

You mean cost-wise? Well, it all depends how good you want it. A basic
makeup kit would be much cheaper. Something with which you can make
"plastic faces" would probably be more expensive - equivalent in cost
to a microtronics kit, if not more.

> If a troll looks through a pair of binoculars with a thermographic
option, does she use her natural thermographic vision modifiers or the
binoculars' artificial thermographic vision modifiers?

Natural. The binoculars won't "override" the troll's vision.

> Lastly, does anyone have a picture of an Ares Roadmaster? I'm
thinking a big semi with a trailer, but I can't be too certain. How
about a Hyundai Offroader? A Suzuki Watersport? A Ford Americar? I
take it these are in the RBB1, but I can't find that book anywhere.
> AK404

Yes, I think they're all (or mostly) in the RBB. Someone might have
scanned them - otherwise I guess you're just out of luck. RBB is an OOP
book. If you really want to get a copy, have a look at ebay or another
internet auction site.

*Doc' waxes his floor lyrically...Doc' pontificates the pontiff...Doc'
verbalises verbosely...Doc' talks too much...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Message no. 4
From: leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 23:17:44 -0600 (CST)
On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Angelkiller 404 wrote:

> While going over the rules detailing the dangers of wired reflexes
> sans reflex trigger, it occurred to me that adepts don't exactly have
> anything to control their enhanced reflexes (i.e, an adept with
> improved reflexes + 2 has a +2 to reaction and +2d6 to initiative all
> the time). Does this make them any more or less controlled than a
> street sam with raw wires or not?

They're more controlled. Adepts channel magic through their body, so think
of their powers as internal Foci: They can turn them on/off at will. A
general rule of thumb would be that Adepts with powers that mimic
cyberware get the benefits without the drawbacks.

> On the physical adept power of hearing amplification: can a physical
> adept control how 'loud' things get like the volume control on a radio
> or are things always loud for him?

If you follow my above rule, I would say that Adepts can control it like a
volume, but if they don't say they're pumping up their range pick-up
(frequency or distance), then the powers aren't active.

> Right now I'm making an adept with
> hearing amplification, a select sound filter (5), high and
> low-frequency hearing, and a sound dampener, but I'm not exactly sure
> what the high/low-freq powers would do, nor do I think that sound
> dampening would be necessary, not if he can selectively block out
> certain background noises.

Low Frequency: Some whale communication is in this range. Drums are at the
low-end of the human hearing range. There are some notes on old organs
that go beyond the low end of the human range (side note: If that book I
read was telling the truth, there's a note on old organs that's too low
for humans to hear, but it causes irrational fear in the person that
hears it...GMs: HAVE FUN!).

High Frequency: Dog whistles.

Sound Dampening is useful if someone blows a trumpet right behind your ear
and you don't want to go deaf. The dampening is different than Select
Sound Filter. Dampening is Flare Comp for sound, basically.

...Although, wouldn't the air waves (which is what sound is) still hurt
your eardrums? There's our next question: How do Sound Dampeners work? Do
they deaden the air waves, or block the electronic impulses to your brain?


-Jared Leisner
Message no. 5
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:29:11 -0400
On 2 Aug 99, at 0:53, Scott Wheelock wrote:

> Roadmaster...think of a big toolbox with four wheels and square
> windows. Of course, that's going by the RBB drawings...I can't stand
> those drawings. Unfortunately, I have yet to see the R2 versions.

Not unfortunately, just not there. There are very few pictures of
vehicles in the R2 book. I would have thought,..... geeesh.


---
Dahhh, E=MC. . .Foooooooood.
-- Ziggy the Troll.


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 6
From: philippe pelletier philippe.pelletier2@*********.ca
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 00:24:23 -0400
Adept does'nt have the same problem then the samurai with wired reflexes.
the only reasons is that the adept power improved reflexes is natural, he
can control it as he wants, no trouble.

Mirage

" What was that, writing and wearing a jack, nothing, it was a mirage "
Angelkiller 404 a écrit:

> While going over the rules detailing the dangers of wired reflexes
> sans reflex trigger, it occurred to me that adepts don't exactly have
> anything to control their enhanced reflexes (i.e, an adept with
> improved reflexes + 2 has a +2 to reaction and +2d6 to initiative all
> the time). Does this make them any more or less controlled than a
> street sam with raw wires or not? Also, improved reflexes aren't
> compatible with anything that increases initiative. Does this include
> Enhanced Articulation and Reaction Enhancers?
>
> On the physical adept power of hearing amplification: can a physical
> adept control how 'loud' things get like the volume control on a radio
> or are things always loud for him? Right now I'm making an adept with
> hearing amplification, a select sound filter (5), high and
> low-frequency hearing, and a sound dampener, but I'm not exactly sure
> what the high/low-freq powers would do, nor do I think that sound
> dampening would be necessary, not if he can selectively block out
> certain background noises.
>
> Random stupid newbie GM questions:
>
> Is the Remington Roomsweeper a Heavy Pistol, a Shotgun, or both? What
> skill applies when using one?
>
> What calculating costs for equipment and lifestyle, what is eligible
> for dwarf and troll-customization? So far, I've done weapons, armor,
> vehicles and lifestyle. Anything else?
>
> How much skill does it take to pop an internal smartlink into a weapon
> if you have the appropriate B/R skill? How about customization? How
> about improving the performance of a weapon (like boosting the power
> level)? Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass
> catcher? How much would a brass catcher cost?
>
> What's the difference between an electronics kit and a microtronics
> kit? Can a disguise kit be considered a general tool kit for game
> purposes?
>
> If a troll looks through a pair of binoculars with a thermographic
> option, does she use her natural thermographic vision modifiers or the
> binoculars' artificial thermographic vision modifiers?
>
> Lastly, does anyone have a picture of an Ares Roadmaster? I'm
> thinking a big semi with a trailer, but I can't be too certain. How
> about a Hyundai Offroader? A Suzuki Watersport? A Ford Americar? I
> take it these are in the RBB1, but I can't find that book anywhere.
>
> -----
> AK404
>
> http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
> http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
> ICQ: 2157053
>
> "There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
> cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
> comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 7
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 01:46:12 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Darrell L. Bowman."
] > Roadmaster...think of a big toolbox with four wheels and square
] > windows. Of course, that's going by the RBB drawings...I can't stand
] > those drawings. Unfortunately, I have yet to see the R2 versions.
]
] Not unfortunately, just not there. There are very few pictures of
] vehicles in the R2 book. I would have thought,..... geeesh.

What? That's really disappointing. Are the pictures that _are_
there any good?

-Murder of One

To: All Employees
From: Human Resources
Subject: Short Term Disability benefit plan
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We are pleased to make available to you an
additional opportunity to enroll in the Voluntary
STD benefit option."
Message no. 8
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:01:05 -0400
>> Random stupid newbie GM questions:
>>
>> Is the Remington Roomsweeper a Heavy Pistol, a Shotgun, or both?
>What skill applies when using one?
>
>It's actually a sawn-off shotgun, IIRC, but in all respects it's
>treated as a heavy pistol - except that it can alternate between shot
>and slug (a heavy pistol can do exactly the same stuff with flechette
>and regular ammo, but flechettes are different to shot rounds for
>purchasing purposes, although they're the same damage-wise).


What I meant to ask was: "When using a Remington Roomsweeper, can a
character switch between his Pistol and Shotgun skills, whichever is
higher, or does he *have* to use Pistols?"

>> How about improving the performance of a weapon (like boosting the
>power level)?
>
>You ALLOW that? IMO, it ain't a good idea for game balance. If you
>really want to do it, you could have them boost the calibre of the
>weapon, which would require changing the barrel, the clips, the ammo
>feed and probably other stuff. If that's possible, which I couldn't
>say. If you really want to let your players do that, I'd say have
them
>create a new weapon (which they can base on an existing weapon).


Already done. Weapons can be customized a lot, so I usually place a
hefty penalty on boosted weapons. Price is just one way of doing
things, but there are other considerations. For example, an Ares
Predator with a +3 to its Power Level (for 12M damage) can only use
customized ammo (8 rounds at that), can't use a silencer, and requires
a Strength (4) test every time it's fired (else the firer falls flat
on his butt due to recoil). Not to mention the ease of forensics
testing whenever this weapon is used...

>> Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass
catcher?
>How much would a brass catcher cost?
>
>Because caseless clips can hold 20% more shots. That's why. Not much.
I
>don't think. How expensive are they these days?

Yeah, but is that 20% really worth it? Sure you don't leave casings,
but a brass catcher can work just as well, and it's easier to switch
loads. It's easier to make cased rounds: all you need are empty
shells, gunpowder, and whatever it is you need to make cased rounds.
In game terms, anyone with a Pistols B/R or Rifles B/R skill can do
this. I think caseless rounds might be harder to do...

Because of the expense involved, caseless weapons are harder to find.
God forbid you should ever run out of ammo during a run, but with
cased rounds, you can simply grab some off a dead body (because you
usually run out of ammo in a gun fight...), and slam in the clip.
With caseless, it's a bit tougher, unless everyone has caseless
weapons, and how often does that happen? Heck, even when you can buy
it, why would you want to pay an extra 50% for all of your ammunition?

Oh yeah, I'm making yet another cyberdeck, when I realized that I
can't find anything about DNI controls for the ASIST on a hot deck.
How much would one of these cost, or does it come with a Hot ASIST by
default?

Lemme get something straight here on Physical Barriers because right
now I have a combat mage lined up for play: The Physical Barrier spell
actually sets up a Barrier (with a score equal to its Rating, plus one
for every two successes), right? Wouldn't this mean that a combat
mage with a Force 5 Physical Barrier and 4 successes is rolling with a
Rating 7 Barrier? And this thing has double its Rating against
Firearms, so that means the aforementioned mage is literally
bulletproof, right? Does it count as Hardened? With the exception of
magic, rockets, missiles, autocannons, and explosives, what would be
able to hurt this guy? Sure, I know about the space limitations, but
some mages like to destroy more than others...

Also, how often will the ordinary pedestrian, wage slave, or security
guard be wearing armor clothing or armor jackets? It JUST hit me that
not everyone will be wearing these things, and if they were, that'd
sort of make Hold-Outs and Light Pistols with regular rounds next to
useless unless you always went for a head shot...

Lastly, my group hasn't had enough time to try this out because all of
the PC's are minimally boosted (in terms of initiative enhancements),
but under SR3 rules, everyone gets a chance to act during the first
pass, finally giving those mundanes a chance to do something. Because
even a 6+1d6 ganger can pose a threat to even a 15+4d6 street sam,
what benefits do wired reflexes have now, other than higher initiative
scores (as opposed to SR2, in any case)? Sure, you get more moves for
every Turn, but most of those come at the end, as opposed to SR2, when
those who were fastest killed the most, which seemed realistic to me.
This doesn't make any sense...

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 9
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton dmcneill@************.edu
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:48:48 -0400
Angelkiller 404 didst asketh:
> What I meant to ask was: "When using a Remington Roomsweeper, can a
> character switch between his Pistol and Shotgun skills, whichever is
> higher, or does he *have* to use Pistols?"
>
The Roomsweeper is listed as a pistol. Use Pistols.

> Oh yeah, I'm making yet another cyberdeck, when I realized that I
> can't find anything about DNI controls for the ASIST on a hot deck.
> How much would one of these cost, or does it come with a Hot ASIST by
> default?

Every Hot ASIST deck has the option of running DNI for the speed boost...but
if you run it cool, you're safer from the nasty Black IC. To0ugh choice,
ney?

> Lemme get something straight here on Physical Barriers because right
> now I have a combat mage lined up for play: The Physical Barrier spell
> actually sets up a Barrier (with a score equal to its Rating, plus one
> for every two successes), right? Wouldn't this mean that a combat
> mage with a Force 5 Physical Barrier and 4 successes is rolling with a
> Rating 7 Barrier? And this thing has double its Rating against
> Firearms, so that means the aforementioned mage is literally
> bulletproof, right? Does it count as Hardened? With the exception of
> magic, rockets, missiles, autocannons, and explosives, what would be
> able to hurt this guy? Sure, I know about the space limitations, but
> some mages like to destroy more than others...

Yep...with a Force 5 Barrier backed by 4 successes ( which is a nifty feat
with a spell TN of 6 ), you get a Rating 7 Barrier...granting you immunity
to a whole pile of stuff. But it's also a really, really big barrier if
you've got the Magic Att. to be tossing around force 5 sustained
manipulations. I, and pretty much anyone here could wax poetic about how to
deal with this goober, so I'll spare you the time.

> Also, how often will the ordinary pedestrian, wage slave, or security
> guard be wearing armor clothing or armor jackets? It JUST hit me that
> not everyone will be wearing these things, and if they were, that'd
> sort of make Hold-Outs and Light Pistols with regular rounds next to
> useless unless you always went for a head shot...

Considering the rules for wearing armor among polite society, I tend to
think that most people don't wear any armor, and the bulk of those who do
are wearing really light stuff like the armor vest ( without plates ), or
armored clothes. Either way, it's only 2 or 3 points of ballistic armor.
Thus, it all comes down to beating them senseless with dice, which I have to
admit, bothers me...since in real life lots of people die from being shot
with light pistol loads from unskilled shooters.

> Lastly, my group hasn't had enough time to try this out because all of
> the PC's are minimally boosted (in terms of initiative enhancements),
> but under SR3 rules, everyone gets a chance to act during the first
> pass, finally giving those mundanes a chance to do something. Because
> even a 6+1d6 ganger can pose a threat to even a 15+4d6 street sam,
> what benefits do wired reflexes have now, other than higher initiative
> scores (as opposed to SR2, in any case)? Sure, you get more moves for
> every Turn, but most of those come at the end, as opposed to SR2, when
> those who were fastest killed the most, which seemed realistic to me.
> This doesn't make any sense...

Speaking as somoene who, up until a few weeks ago, played someone with a
gawdawful Init in SR3, I still believe that the boost is useful, even if not
to the profane effect it had in SR2.

First and foremost, you still have a much higher Reaction than the badguys,
which gives you a whole lot of dice for Surprise tests. Remember, anyone
you beat on a Surprise test can't shoot at you for the first turn.

Second, with a gawdawful high Reaction, you can fly, drive, steer, or pilot
pretty much anything just by defaulting.

Third, you still get a lot of actions to shoot at folks...and you get them
after they've tossed all their combat pool into surviving the first
Initiative Pass.

And lastly, you still have a great shot at going before the goons, allowing
you to do something very important...namely taking cover, ideally taking a
slower teammate to safety with you. If they lack a LOS to you, they're
shooting elsewhere...and burning combat pool like there's no tomorrow.
Thus, after the first pass of gunfire the wirefreak breaks cover and uses
all his actions and combat pool to wreak havok.

Being stupidly fast is still an advantage, you just have to be a bit more
creative. Now, the chrome is a stepladder rather than a crutch.

-Duncan
Message no. 10
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
> >It's actually a sawn-off shotgun, IIRC, but in all respects it's
treated as a heavy pistol - except that it can alternate between shot
and slug (a heavy pistol can do exactly the same stuff with flechette
and regular ammo, but flechettes are different to shot rounds for
purchasing purposes, although they're the same damage-wise).
>
> What I meant to ask was: "When using a Remington Roomsweeper, can a
character switch between his Pistol and Shotgun skills, whichever is
higher, or does he *have* to use Pistols?"

In that case, no. Pistols, always pistols.

> >You ALLOW that? IMO, it ain't a good idea for game balance. If you
really want to do it, you could have them boost the calibre of the
weapon, which would require changing the barrel, the clips, the ammo
feed and probably other stuff. If that's possible, which I couldn't
say. If you really want to let your players do that, I'd say have them
create a new weapon (which they can base on an existing weapon).
>
> Already done. Weapons can be customized a lot, so I usually place a
hefty penalty on boosted weapons. Price is just one way of doing
things, but there are other considerations. For example, an Ares
Predator with a +3 to its Power Level (for 12M damage) can only use
customized ammo (8 rounds at that), can't use a silencer, and requires
a Strength (4) test every time it's fired (else the firer falls flat on
his butt due to recoil). Not to mention the ease of forensics testing
whenever this weapon is used...

Try this one for your recoil - it can be even nastier, and it's also
more realistic. Make them take a knockdown test, as per the rules for
knockdown afer being shot (strength test with a target of half the
power of the weapon) - so that 12M Predator of yours has a target of 6
- and the damage level determines how many successes are required (I
think it's like 1 for light, 2 for moderate and 3 for serious - there's
no rating for deadly (well, duh - you take a deadly and you're down no
matter what), so just make that a 4).

Also, you might want to rule that guns like that wear out after every
100 or so shots, as they aren't designed to take that kind of
punishment. I would.

> >Because caseless clips can hold 20% more shots. That's why. Not
much. I don't think. How expensive are they these days?
>
> Yeah, but is that 20% really worth it?

Buddy, would you really ask that if you were in a combat situation
where you had five cased bullets and you were up against six bad guys?
:)

> Sure you don't leave casings, but a brass catcher can work just as
well, and it's easier to switch loads.

Is it? Well, none of that is simulated in SR, IIRC. Try to find a copy
of Fields of Fire. That deals with caseless bullets - then decide if
it's worth it or not.

> It's easier to make cased rounds: all you need are empty shells,
gunpowder, and whatever it is you need to make cased rounds. In game
terms, anyone with a Pistols B/R or Rifles B/R skill can do this. I
think caseless rounds might be harder to do...

Well, that makes sense. You'd need special machinery to make caseless
rounds. But in any case, I thought I read somewhere (it might have been
SR2, or I might be imagining things) that all the weapons WERE caseless
as standard. Eh - maybe it was a different game.

> Because of the expense involved, caseless weapons are harder to find.
God forbid you should ever run out of ammo during a run, but with
cased rounds, you can simply grab some off a dead body (because you
usually run out of ammo in a gun fight...), and slam in the clip. With
caseless, it's a bit tougher, unless everyone has caseless weapons, and
how often does that happen? Heck, even when you can buy it, why would
you want to pay an extra 50% for all of your ammunition?

Again, it all depends whether caseless are standard or not. I'd say
that by SR times caseless WOULD be standard, they'd be cheaper and the
ammo would be plentiful - just because they're "better" for most
purposes. (Gun nuts, feel free to correct me on the previous statement,
but don't flame too much - we've already had enough of that, thank
you.)

> Oh yeah, I'm making yet another cyberdeck, when I realized that I
can't find anything about DNI controls for the ASIST on a hot deck. How
much would one of these cost, or does it come with a Hot ASIST by
default?

It's integral. If you have a deck with hot ASIST capability, you HAVE
to have DNI interface ability - otherwise it ain't hot. Btw, what do
you mean when you say DNI "controls"? You aren't referring to keyboards
and the like, are you? You're not THAT much of a newbie GM, are you? :)

> Lemme get something straight here on Physical Barriers because right
now I have a combat mage lined up for play: The Physical Barrier spell
actually sets up a Barrier (with a score equal to its Rating, plus one
for every two successes), right? Wouldn't this mean that a combat mage
with a Force 5 Physical Barrier and 4 successes is rolling with a
Rating 7 Barrier? And this thing has double its Rating against
Firearms, so that means the aforementioned mage is literally
bulletproof, right? Does it count as Hardened? With the exception of
magic, rockets, missiles, autocannons, and explosives, what would be
able to hurt this guy? Sure, I know about the space limitations, but
some mages like to destroy more than others...

Hardened only applies to armour. A barrier isn't armour. You use the
standard barrier rules. And yes, this thing is nasty, but if he pulls
it out, you can pull out the big guns too. Y'think corp guards or cops
who can't hit the scuzz aren't going to call in the cavalry? Even this
guy is gonna go pale if they start pulling out the big weapons.

And remember, barrier spells can be worn down just like any other
barrier.

Last thing - you talk about magic in this case like it's bad and you
don't want to use it. Sure, he's effectively bulletproof to a sniper
rifle or anything less powerful (btw, according to literal
interpretations of the rules, the barrier won't stop a laser). So what?
SOP for anyone with magical assets on call WOULD be to call for a mage.
Maybe gangers and the like would be in trouble, but not everyone.

Try this one - next time he casts the spell and more or less makes
himself invulnerable (because the other side has no magic), tell him
that he's actually casting it in an area with a background count
(temporary or otherwise - maybe someone was murdered in that alley just
a few hours ago or something). Chances are good that he'll knock
himself out - or even just harsh himself severely. He'll probably learn
quickly that such a powerful spell isn't always a good thing to use.

> Also, how often will the ordinary pedestrian, wage slave, or security
guard be wearing armor clothing or armor jackets? It JUST hit me that
not everyone will be wearing these things, and if they were, that'd
sort of make Hold-Outs and Light Pistols with regular rounds next to
useless unless you always went for a head shot...

Well, for most shadowrunners, they are. Some people go for the "light
touch" thing (light on weapons, light on armour), in which case you'll
want to go light on the opposition as well (or they'll get fed up with
you quickly). Most guards will wear at least armour clothing, but just
about everyone else WON'T. It's a social thing. Obvious body armour is
frowned upon atm (if you're wearing it and you're not a cop or the
like, you MUST have some nefarious purpose in mind, etc. etc.).
Basically, base it on what your players do. Give the standard
opposition more or less equivalent gear.

> Lastly, my group hasn't had enough time to try this out because all
of the PC's are minimally boosted (in terms of initiative
enhancements), but under SR3 rules, everyone gets a chance to act
during the first pass, finally giving those mundanes a chance to do
something. Because even a 6+1d6 ganger can pose a threat to even a
15+4d6 street sam, what benefits do wired reflexes have now, other than
higher initiative scores (as opposed to SR2, in any case)? Sure, you
get more moves for every Turn, but most of those come at the end, as
opposed to SR2, when those who were fastest killed the most, which
seemed realistic to me. This doesn't make any sense...
> AK404

None, really, but look at it this way. Those fast buggers of yours can
use their first action to hunt cover, wait for the slowpokes to burn
their actions, then come out firing.

Here's something you might want to try. Can't remember who suggested
this, but it was someone on the list. Make combat pools based on
reaction, rather than quickness and intelligence. The formula is the
same, but you substitute reaction for the aforementioned attributes
(reaction + reaction + willpower / 3). That'll make the guys with the
reaction boosters somewhat more deadly - nowhere near how nasty they
were in SR2, but moreso than in base SR3.

One last thing - doing stuff like that encourages combat rather than
thinking. Are you sure you want to do that?

*Doc' is stunned. "I sound like the voice of reason. Somebody shoot me."*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 11
From: Damian Robinson max.robinson@**.net.au
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:21:48 +1000
Lots of people said...

> > >Why bother with caseless when you can simply pop on a brass
> > >catcher?
> >
> >How much would a brass catcher cost?
>
> Because caseless clips can hold 20% more shots. That's why. Not much.
> I don't think. How expensive are they these days?
>
> Yeah, but is that 20% really worth it? Sure you don't leave
> casings, but a brass catcher can work just as well, and it's easier
> to switch loads. It's easier to make cased rounds: all you need
> are empty shells, gunpowder, and whatever it is you need to make
> cased rounds. In game terms, anyone with a Pistols B/R or Rifles
> B/R skill can do this. I think caseless rounds might be harder to
> do...

But who actually has their runners make their own ammo? Its easy
enough to find ammo on the street.

> Because of the expense involved, caseless weapons are harder to
> find. God forbid you should ever run out of ammo during a run,
> but with cased rounds, you can simply grab some off a dead body
> (because you usually run out of ammo in a gun fight...), and slam
> in the clip. With caseless, it's a bit tougher, unless everyone
> has caseless weapons, and how often does that happen?

Personally I say that you have to have the same type of gun as well to
do that. ie: if you've got a Sav Guardian, you can't use ammo from a
Predator as a reload. But thats just my house rule. YMMV.

> Heck, even when you can buy it, why would you want to pay an extra
> 50% for all of your Ammunition?

Well now in SR3, all ammo is avail as caseless or cased at the same
cost (P 276 SR3, Under Firearms). In fact, caseless is described as
the most common type these days. Nothing is said about the Ammo
increase or cost differences in the guns though. Personally I still
charge the increased cost for the caseless guns. Got to have some
drawback for all that extra ammo!
--
Cheers
Damian

Home Page:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/4808/
pay a visit, and please don't forget the Guestbook...

ICQ?
#14030875
Message no. 12
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> Try this one for your recoil - it can be even nastier, and it's also
more realistic. Make them take a knockdown test, as per the rules for
knockdown afer being shot (strength test with a target of half the
power of the weapon) - so that 12M Predator of yours has a target of 6
- and the damage level determines how many successes are required (I
think it's like 1 for light, 2 for moderate and 3 for serious - there's
no rating for deadly (well, duh - you take a deadly and you're down no
matter what), so just make that a 4).
<BigSnip(TM)>

Knew I forgot something. DON'T take the standard modifiers for gel
rounds into account for the test. A gel round isn't going to have any
more recoil than a standard round. The difference is at the end where
it hits. Same thing for any other specialty rounds, for that matter.
The power should always be the base power of the weapon (not increased
for explosive rounds or lessened for gel rounds) and the target should
always be HALF the power (not the full power for gel rounds).
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 13
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:26:32 -0400
>But who actually has their runners make their own ammo? Its easy
>enough to find ammo on the street.


For role-playing purposes? My sniper used to, all the time. "Won't
trust the job to amateurs," was her motto. Made every bullet a work
of art, brushed, sanded, polished, then embossed the Chinese symbol
for death on every one. Cost her more than buying ammo, but it was SO
worth it. Making your own ammo also helps for guns with hard-to-get
custom ammo, like that troublesome Barret Model 121.

>Well now in SR3, all ammo is avail as caseless or cased at the same
>cost (P 276 SR3, Under Firearms). In fact, caseless is described as
>the most common type these days. Nothing is said about the Ammo
>increase or cost differences in the guns though. Personally I still
>charge the increased cost for the caseless guns. Got to have some
>drawback for all that extra ammo!


D'oh! I didn't notice that! I keep on referring to FoF for info on
caseless ammo, so my brain just kinda skipped right over that, Thanks
for pointing it out, but does the caseless version still hold more
ammo? I didn't notice any mention of that.

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 14
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:39:52 -0400
>> Oh yeah, I'm making yet another cyberdeck, when I realized that I
>can't find anything about DNI controls for the ASIST on a hot deck.
How
>much would one of these cost, or does it come with a Hot ASIST by
>default?
>
>It's integral. If you have a deck with hot ASIST capability, you HAVE
>to have DNI interface ability - otherwise it ain't hot. Btw, what do
>you mean when you say DNI "controls"? You aren't referring to
keyboards
>and the like, are you? You're not THAT much of a newbie GM, are you?
:)


As far as the Matrix and decking goes, I'm so newbie that I haven't
even been slapped on the butt by the doctor yet. I usually just say
"what's your Computer Skill?" roll some dice, then say "OK, here's
what you get," but now I really want to get into this decking thing...

And yes, with a Hot ASIST, I would put on DNI and a keyboard on the
same deck.

>Last thing - you talk about magic in this case like it's bad and you
>don't want to use it. Sure, he's effectively bulletproof to a sniper
>rifle or anything less powerful (btw, according to literal
>interpretations of the rules, the barrier won't stop a laser). So
what?
>SOP for anyone with magical assets on call WOULD be to call for a
mage.
>Maybe gangers and the like would be in trouble, but not everyone.
>
>Try this one - next time he casts the spell and more or less makes
>himself invulnerable (because the other side has no magic), tell him
>that he's actually casting it in an area with a background count
>(temporary or otherwise - maybe someone was murdered in that alley
just
>a few hours ago or something). Chances are good that he'll knock
>himself out - or even just harsh himself severely. He'll probably
learn
>quickly that such a powerful spell isn't always a good thing to use.


Well, this is more of a case of "something I wanna try on MY GM." You
see, my combat mage follows the Lina Inverse school of combat
magic...destroy it all, destroy quickly, and destroy it before the
enemy can possibly use it.

>Well, for most shadowrunners, they are. Some people go for the "light
>touch" thing (light on weapons, light on armour), in which case
you'll
>want to go light on the opposition as well (or they'll get fed up
with
>you quickly). Most guards will wear at least armour clothing, but
just
>about everyone else WON'T. It's a social thing. Obvious body armour
is
>frowned upon atm (if you're wearing it and you're not a cop or the
>like, you MUST have some nefarious purpose in mind, etc. etc.).
>Basically, base it on what your players do. Give the standard
>opposition more or less equivalent gear.


Yeah, I know that. My current group is still green, so I'm not going
to be tossing cyberzombies against them or anything...

>None, really, but look at it this way. Those fast buggers of yours
can
>use their first action to hunt cover, wait for the slowpokes to burn
>their actions, then come out firing.


Ah, I get it now...cool.

>One last thing - doing stuff like that encourages combat rather than
>thinking. Are you sure you want to do that?


Well, I'd be giving them combat for the weekly "beatdown" and the
"this is why you want to avoid confrontations for now..." lesson of
the day whenever someone gets out of line.

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 15
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
> >It's integral. If you have a deck with hot ASIST capability, you
HAVE to have DNI interface ability - otherwise it ain't hot. Btw, what
do you mean when you say DNI "controls"? You aren't referring to
keyboards and the like, are you? You're not THAT much of a newbie GM,
are you? :)
>
> As far as the Matrix and decking goes, I'm so newbie that I haven't
even been slapped on the butt by the doctor yet. I usually just say
"what's your Computer Skill?" roll some dice, then say "OK, here's what
you get," but now I really want to get into this decking thing...

*lol* Well, I'm like that, but worse - I know the background stuff, but
not the rules, so I don't allow PC deckers. One of these days...

> And yes, with a Hot ASIST, I would put on DNI and a keyboard on the
same deck.

Of course you would, but that's because a hot deck can also run in cool
mode - or tortoise mode if you have a viewscreen, although under most
circumstances I'd question the brainpower of a decker doing that. DNI
is just that - Direct Neural Interface. You probably know that, but I
just thought I'd reiterate. With DNI, you control your deck with your
brain and your brain alone. You don't need any manual controls - the
RAS override (the stuff that stops you flopping around while you're
decking) is total, IIRC. That's why hot running is faster than cool
running - you don't need to worry about typing anything.

> Well, this is more of a case of "something I wanna try on MY GM."
You see, my combat mage follows the Lina Inverse school of combat
magic...destroy it all, destroy quickly, and destroy it before the
enemy can possibly use it.

Oh, okay. Be careful, though - a lot of GMs would do the kind of stuff
to you that I just suggested. Save your barrier for when you really
need it. Mostly I'd just go with a good old force 6 armour spell.

> Yeah, I know that. My current group is still green, so I'm not going
to be tossing cyberzombies against them or anything...

Well...see below. :)

> >One last thing - doing stuff like that encourages combat rather than
thinking. Are you sure you want to do that?
>
> Well, I'd be giving them combat for the weekly "beatdown" and the
"this is why you want to avoid confrontations for now..." lesson of the
day whenever someone gets out of line.
> AK404

Fair enough. And if they ever get too bad, you could always bring that
cyberzombie out of the closet...:)

*Doc' tries to set up a chorus of EGMGing, malicious hand-rubbing and
insane cackling. "All together now!*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 16
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippage(TM)>
> D'oh! I didn't notice that! I keep on referring to FoF for info on
caseless ammo, so my brain just kinda skipped right over that, Thanks
for pointing it out, but does the caseless version still hold more
ammo? I didn't notice any mention of that.
> AK404

Hmmm...forgot that one. Well, I didn't remember it exactly, at least.

AK, if it doesn't say that it DOES add to the capacity, then it
doesn't. At least in this case. Otherwise you can just screw everyone
else by saying "my guns use caseless ammo".

You might actually want to reverse the trend in order to encourage
cased rounds again. Make caseless the standard and give a discount on
cased, but lower clip capacity for them. Or just use the FoF rules and
ignore the statement in SR3.

*Doc' is turning older and whiter-haired by the second...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 17
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:09:42 -0400
On 2 Aug 99, at 1:46, Scott Wheelock wrote:

> ] Not unfortunately, just not there. There are very few pictures of
> ] vehicles in the R2 book. I would have thought,..... geeesh.
>
> What? That's really disappointing. Are the pictures that _are_
> there any good?

There are maybe, maybe, a dozen pictures of some drones.
B&W, yeah, they look cool. But, there aren't pictures of the
new drones, or new vehicles. Heck, there aren't any vehicle
pictures at all as far as descriptions and such. There's several
color palettes that look good. The book is mostly rules and
stats, very little descriptive art. There are some b&w pics
spread in and around the text. Some folks will say that this
was a good move, you've got more room for the rules and
such, and not so much art, but I wanted to SEE some of the
vehicles.

---
Armor piercing rounds -- thanks guys you really shouldn't have.
-- Smilin's Jack, his cybereyes fogged up.


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 18
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:44:29 +1000
> > Lemme get something straight here on Physical Barriers because right
> > now I have a combat mage lined up for play: The Physical Barrier spell
> > actually sets up a Barrier (with a score equal to its Rating, plus one
> > for every two successes), right? Wouldn't this mean that a combat mage
> > with a Force 5 Physical Barrier and 4 successes is rolling with a
> > Rating 7 Barrier? And this thing has double its Rating against
> > Firearms, so that means the aforementioned mage is literally
> > bulletproof, right? Does it count as Hardened? With the exception of
> > magic, rockets, missiles, autocannons, and explosives, what would be
> > able to hurt this guy? Sure, I know about the space limitations, but
> > some mages like to destroy more than others...

As modified by the SR3 Errata, all barrier spells only produce a barrier
with a rating equal to the force of the spell. As long as one success was
achieved in the sorcery test, all the other successes are irrelevant.

The Barrier Rating of a barrier, with respect to firearms, only doubles for
determining success in blasting *large* holes in the barrier - not for just
shooting through and hitting someone on the other side.

The Force 5 Physical Barrier spell will only produce a Force 5 Barrier
which will only bounce hold-out ammo.

At 21:58 2/08/99 -0700, Rand Ratinac wrote:
>Hardened only applies to armour. A barrier isn't armour. You use the
>standard barrier rules. And yes, this thing is nasty, but if he pulls
>it out, you can pull out the big guns too. Y'think corp guards or cops
>who can't hit the scuzz aren't going to call in the cavalry? Even this
>guy is gonna go pale if they start pulling out the big weapons.

I do not believe this is correct. A Physical Barrier (or Armour) spell is
described as having a "barrier rating" not a "composite armour
rating".
Anything with a Barrier Rating is subject to the Barrier rules on p124 of
SR3 which includes the rule that if an attack's base power does not exceed
the Barrier Rating then it is stopped cold. Anything with a Barrier Rating
is the equivalent of Hardened.


Chris
Message no. 19
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Improved Reflexes, Adepts, and truly inane questions.
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 17:39:10 +1000
> > Lemme get something straight here on Physical Barriers because right
> > now I have a combat mage lined up for play: The Physical Barrier spell
> > actually sets up a Barrier (with a score equal to its Rating, plus one
> > for every two successes), right? Wouldn't this mean that a combat mage
> > with a Force 5 Physical Barrier and 4 successes is rolling with a
> > Rating 7 Barrier? And this thing has double its Rating against
> > Firearms, so that means the aforementioned mage is literally
> > bulletproof, right? Does it count as Hardened? With the exception of
> > magic, rockets, missiles, autocannons, and explosives, what would be
> > able to hurt this guy? Sure, I know about the space limitations, but
> > some mages like to destroy more than others...

As modified by the SR3 Errata, all barrier spells only produce a barrier
with a rating equal to the force of the spell. As long as one success was
achieved in the sorcery test, all the other successes are irrelevant.

The Barrier Rating of a barrier, with respect to firearms, only doubles for
determining success in blasting *large* holes in the barrier - not for just
shooting through and hitting someone on the other side.

The Force 5 Physical Barrier spell will only produce a Force 5 Barrier
which will only bounce hold-out ammo.

At 21:58 2/08/99 -0700, Rand Ratinac wrote:
>Hardened only applies to armour. A barrier isn't armour. You use the
>standard barrier rules. And yes, this thing is nasty, but if he pulls
>it out, you can pull out the big guns too. Y'think corp guards or cops
>who can't hit the scuzz aren't going to call in the cavalry? Even this
>guy is gonna go pale if they start pulling out the big weapons.

I do not believe this is correct. A Physical Barrier (or Armour) spell is
described as having a "barrier rating" not a "composite armour
rating".
Anything with a Barrier Rating is subject to the Barrier rules on p124 of
SR3 which includes the rule that if an attack's base power does not exceed
the Barrier Rating then it is stopped cold. Anything with a Barrier Rating
is the equivalent of Hardened.


Chris

Further Reading

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