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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:58:06 -0500
Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 2
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:09:27 -0300
D. Ghost wrote:
>
> Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?


I think it can. The effect would be similar to eagle eyes, I guess.

Bira
Message no. 3
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:22:35 -0400
D. Ghost--

>Can vision mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?

Yes.

Shadowmage
Message no. 4
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:21:52 -0500
----------
> From: D. Ghost <dghost@****.COM>
>
> Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?

I would allow it, but I would say that the first purchase of the power
would be Mag 1, the second Mag 2, the third Mag 3, rather than letting
someone buy Mag 3 as their power...

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"You fail, Death-Lord! You destroy the instrument, but not its music.
With all your power you have gained only a broken shell."
In that moment, when the harp had been silenced, arose the songs of
birds, the chiming of brooks, the humming of wind through grass and
leaves; and all these voices took up the strands of melody, more beautiful
than before.
-Lloyd Alexander, "The Smith, The Weaver, and the Harper"
Message no. 5
From: Wolfchild <nathan.olsen@*******.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:25:31 -0500
On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:

> > Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?
>
> I think it can. The effect would be similar to eagle eyes, I guess.

my gut reaction would be to agree, but that unleashes quite a few
enhancements that I'd be reluctant to allow, such as Ultrasound Sight or
Smartlink Vision (targeting dot in your vision for -2 bonus for firearms).

Wolfchild - "Discinctaque in otia natus."
--
_,-/ "Desperanda tibi salva concordia socru." \-,_
,-~ / -Juvenal, Satire 6 \ ~-,
/' | /(_ "Quin tu istanc orationem hinc _)\ | `\
/' / \,_/ .\ veterem atque antiquam amoves?" /. \_,/ \ `\
| | /, ,-' -Plautus, Miles Gloriosus `-, ,\ | |
| | ,-, \ \,?| There are nights when the wolves are |@,/ / ,-, | |
| ,-|/ / ,_\,_/_ silent, and only the moon howls. _\_,/_ \ \|-, |
|/' | __, _) ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU (_ ,__` | `\|
| `;-~_.--~ ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU ~--._~-;' |
\ \__ http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu __/ /
`,-,`` /~zombie/lynx.htm '',-,'
((|))____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____((|))
Message no. 6
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:43:48 -0500
----------
> From: Wolfchild <nathan.olsen@*******.MSUS.EDU>
>
> On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
>
> > > Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?
> >
> > I think it can. The effect would be similar to eagle eyes, I guess.
>
> my gut reaction would be to agree, but that unleashes quite a few
> enhancements that I'd be reluctant to allow, such as Ultrasound Sight or
> Smartlink Vision (targeting dot in your vision for -2 bonus for
firearms).

There is a huge difference between merely being able to see a lot farther
and being able to link your mind completely with a gun... as for
Ultrasound Sight, try Personal Sonar. makes much more sense, and slots
with a lot of watchcritters.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"You fail, Death-Lord! You destroy the instrument, but not its music.
With all your power you have gained only a broken shell."
In that moment, when the harp had been silenced, arose the songs of
birds, the chiming of brooks, the humming of wind through grass and
leaves; and all these voices took up the strands of melody, more beautiful
than before.
-Lloyd Alexander, "The Smith, The Weaver, and the Harper"
Message no. 7
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:00:46 -0300
Wolfchild wrote:
>
> On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
>
> > > Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?
> >
> > I think it can. The effect would be similar to eagle eyes, I guess.
>
> my gut reaction would be to agree, but that unleashes quite a few
> enhancements that I'd be reluctant to allow, such as Ultrasound Sight or
> Smartlink Vision (targeting dot in your vision for -2 bonus for firearms).

Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :) ... As for an ultrasound,
why
not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...

Bira
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:16:24 +1000
Bira writes:
> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :)

That's not necessarily true... given sufficient body-awareness, and
sufficient precision in the eyes, and enough dedicated processing power in
the brain to process the data, smartlink vision could be done in nature.

All it takes is some trig: You have to be able to extrapolate a line from,
say, your finger (or a gun), and you have to know how far away an object is
(using the parallax from your eyeballs). Everyone has some native ability to
do this, some more than others.

The physad power of Enhanced Aim is the magical enhancement of this ability.

(Of course, this won't let you interface with your smartgun to allow you to
skip autofire past innocent bystanders, but hey...)

> As for an ultrasound, why
> not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...

Umm... what about bats?

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 9
From: Kaptiv Audienz <G8TWAY@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:35:27 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/1998 4:03:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?

In my opinion, it should be possible to replicate the benefits of vision
magnification with Adept abilities. Would you have to purchase the ability in
levels however, with each level costing equal to a new sense. For example: I
am making an Adept that is good at sniper operations, but does not use
technological vision magnification. I want to obtain Magnification Sight at a
level of 3, there fore I purchase the Adept Improved Sense of Vision
Magnification 3 times, one time for each level.
Message no. 10
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:03:32 -0500
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:16:24 +1000 Robert Watkins
<robert.watkins@******.COM> writes:
>Bira writes:
>> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :)

>That's not necessarily true... given sufficient body-awareness, and
>sufficient precision in the eyes, and enough dedicated processing power
in
>the brain to process the data, smartlink vision could be done in nature.
>
>All it takes is some trig: You have to be able to extrapolate a line
from,
>say, your finger (or a gun), and you have to know how far away an object
is
>(using the parallax from your eyeballs). Everyone has some native
ability to
>do this, some more than others.
>
>The physad power of Enhanced Aim is the magical enhancement of this
ability.
>
>(Of course, this won't let you interface with your smartgun to allow you
to
>skip autofire past innocent bystanders, but hey...)

Hey, this all sounds like cerebral enhancements ... Oh wait that is
contrary to physical adepts' natures hence, no smartlink as a physical
adept ability. If you want enhaced aim, use the improved ability
(firearms) adept ability.

>> As for an ultrasound, why
>> not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...

>Umm... what about bats?
>
>--
>.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

Bats don't work underwater ... ;)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:59:28 +1000
D. Ghost writes:
> >> As for an ultrasound, why
> >> not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...
>
> >Umm... what about bats?
>
> Bats don't work underwater ... ;)

Well, duh... I was giving an example that worked outside of water. :)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 12
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 04:24:58 -0300
D. Ghost wrote:
> Bats don't work underwater ... ;)
>


Them again, theirs is more akin to radar :) .

Bira
Message no. 13
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:23:27 +1000
>D. Ghost wrote:
>> Bats don't work underwater ... ;)
>>
>
>
> Them again, theirs is more akin to radar :) .
>
> Bira

No it isn't, bats send out sound and get it back, sonar is sound sent
out and got back, radar is technological stuff involving signals, not
sound
Message no. 14
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:27:08 -0500
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 04:24:58 -0300 "Ubiratan P. Alberton"
<ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR> writes:
>D. Ghost wrote:
>> Bats don't work underwater ... ;)

> Them again, theirs is more akin to radar :) .
>
> Bira

??? Bats screach and listen for the echo ... that's sonar ...

<Different Srokes>
Whachu talkin about, Willis?
</Different Srokes>

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 15
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:40:43 PDT
.
>
> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :) ... As for an
ultrasound,
>why
>not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...
>
> Bira
Not to be pedantic or anything but how about bats...does their
ultrasound only work under water?
pick at the tapestry and it shall fall away
MRhaPPYTHEsmILEYman


*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:17:29 +0100
And verily, did D. Ghost hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?

Can't see why not. If you can buy a sonar type power, you could easily come
up with a mag type power.

(The way I see it is, Anything that can be done with Sense-Enhancing
detection spells can be replicated in Phys Ad Enhanced senses powers)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 17
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:35:29 +0100
And verily, did Wolfchild hastily scribble thusly...
|
|On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
|
|> > Can Vision Mag be duplicated with the Adept ability Improved Senses?
|>
|> I think it can. The effect would be similar to eagle eyes, I guess.
|
|my gut reaction would be to agree, but that unleashes quite a few
|enhancements that I'd be reluctant to allow, such as Ultrasound Sight or
|Smartlink Vision (targeting dot in your vision for -2 bonus for firearms).

Well, I can't see what's wrong with 'em.
As I said in an earlier post, if a sense enhancing detection spell can do
it, Phys Ads should be able to as well...

Just adjust the cost to reflect the "unusualness" of the sense.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 18
From: Dom T-J <phobic@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:33:21 +1000
>> Them again, theirs is more akin to radar :) .
>>
>> Bira
>
>No it isn't, bats send out sound and get it back, sonar is sound sent
>out and got back, radar is technological stuff involving signals, not
>sound
>

I'd have to concur... then again, that wouldn't be ultrasound SIGHT now
would it? Bats gather their reflected sound pulse with their large,
scoop-shaped ears...

I'd like to meet THAT physad. Although I probably wouldn't laugh at him to
his face...


Phobic
"He who fears nothing save fear itself. And trolls with clubs."
Message no. 19
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:26:26 -0500
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:40:43 PDT Wilbur The new adept
<mad_bomb@*******.COM> writes:
>> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :) ... As for an
ultrasound, why
>>not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...
>>
>> Bira

> Not to be pedantic or anything but how about bats...does their
>ultrasound only work under water?
> pick at the tapestry and it shall fall away
> MRhaPPYTHEsmILEYman
<SNIP Sig>

Nope. Bats don't work underwater ... maybe with a snorkel ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:37:53 +1000
Dom T-J writes:
> I'd have to concur... then again, that wouldn't be ultrasound SIGHT now
> would it? Bats gather their reflected sound pulse with their large,
> scoop-shaped ears...

*sigh* No, of course not. Sound isn't light. You can't see it (except in
certain extreme cases I won't go into here).

What does an ultrasound sight do? It converts the sonar information that it
recieves into a graphical image, which it displays on a screen.

Now, the human brain is perfectly capable of that sort of stunt to a much
lesser degree, and a magical enhancement which would let a person
"visualise" an area based on echo-locations would be perfectly feasible,
though probably expensive (at least 2 magic points, I would say).

Can we stop being ridiculously pedantic now?

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 21
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:27:50 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:00 AM 9/7/98 -0300, Bria wrote:
>> my gut reaction would be to agree, but that unleashes quite a few
>> enhancements that I'd be reluctant to allow, such as Ultrasound
Sight or
>> Smartlink Vision (targeting dot in your vision for -2 bonus for
firearms).
>
> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :) ... As for an
ultrasound,
>why
>not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...

Bats, Bria. Bats.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 22
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:08:57 -0500
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:27:50 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 02:00 AM 9/7/98 -0300, Bria wrote:
<SNIP>
>> Smartlink vision has no analog in nature :) ... As for an
ultrasound, why
>>not, as long as it works only underwater (whale sonar?)...

>Bats, Bria. Bats.
<SNIP PGP>
> -- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
<SNIP More PGP>

Bria? Something screwy happened with your mailer. That was from Bira :)

D. Ghost (What is Bria? Female French Cheese?)
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 23
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Improved Senses Question -Reply
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:59:39 -0400
>I would allow it, but I would say that the first purchase of the
>power would be Mag 1, the second Mag 2, the third Mag 3,
>rather than letting someone buy Mag 3 as their power...

Just out of curiosity why? The essence costs are the same.
Money is different but that's about it. The only thing I can
see is to balance out things, but take a look at the PA in
the 2057 election module. I can't remember if the points
work out or not, but he is a good example.

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deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
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