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Message no. 1
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 17:08:44 +0100
On Fri, 26 May 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:

> Also remember the non-combatant rule, if damage penalties reach
> reaction you are out of it even if concious,
I personally do not like this rule -at first I thought it was good, but
then I realised that an average Troll (Quickness:2, Intelligence:1) would
only have a Reaction of 1, or 2 perhaps -this would mean a Troll is out
of a fight if he takes a Light or perhaps a Moderate wound, whereas an
average Human (reaction:3) is only out of a fight if they take Serious
wounds -it doesn't seem balanced so I just use the Proffessional ratings
(and may *suggest* -but not enforce- an approximate Prof Rating to PCs).

I also use rules to test for KO -a character rolls Body or Willpower
(whichever is higher) TN:2+Injury mods, if the PC fails they fall
unconscious -this prevents even your samurai running around with 9 boxes
Mental, 9 boxes Physical. The GM should only call for this test if teh
player suddenly receives a LOT of damage in one go ie a single Serious
wound or the equivalent in seperate attacks within 10 phases.

It also means you can strike off an NPC whenever you wish to balance the
game "Oh he failed his KO test".

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 2
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 14:49:36 -0500
> I also use rules to test for KO -a character rolls Body or Willpower
> (whichever is higher) TN:2+Injury mods, if the PC fails they fall
> unconscious -this prevents even your samurai running around with 9 boxes
> Mental, 9 boxes Physical. The GM should only call for this test if teh
> player suddenly receives a LOT of damage in one go ie a single Serious
> wound or the equivalent in seperate attacks within 10 phases.
>
> It also means you can strike off an NPC whenever you wish to balance the
> game "Oh he failed his KO test".
>
> The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk

Isn't there already something like this under the knockdown rules? This is
one of my favorite sections- it makes HtH much nastier. SRII doesn't include
any aditional penalties for caracters acting while prone, but I would say that
if you can't pass a test to stand up, you can't do much else. Our gm uses
this both ways- sometimes we get knocked down, lots of times badguys do (love
that Yamaha Pulser). Once, I was hanging back from a meet, holding an action,
and put a bust ino some cybermeany when he pulled a gun on my teamate. down
he goes. Hell brakes lose, I continue to hold actions, waiting to see the
resolution. The guy props himself up, goes to aim.. Puh puh puh- heh heh,
got him on the rise. Makes me think twice now as to whether I've gotten a
deadly for sure.
Message no. 3
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 11:29:43 BST
her dig' - maj' wrote :-

> -this prevents even your samurai running around with 9 boxes
> Mental, 9 boxes Physical.

heh-heh, if any if my players want to do anything but dive under
cover at this stage, then I say let them, I've implemented a
slight modificatiuon to the bits-blown-off rules, in that you get
+1 to the Body Tno per 2 boxes of overflow, so the more you take,
the more you're likely to have a stat or a leg amputated ;-)

Oh yeah, and he said KO, as in out, not KD, as in down, you get
knocked down, you ronly problem is -2 to be hit in H2H, -1
stationary target, and spenmding a Simple Action to get back up again.


I also use the damage level that hit you (ie. after dodging) as the
number of successes needed for the Knock-back test, ie if you get
hit, but not damaged, then the force of the blow might still knock
you over, even though it did no 'real' physical damage.


We always use three bursts to ensure a ill, there are few cyber-guys that
can take two deadly wounds, but many who have the 9 boidy required to
take a deadly from a 10 round rifle burst, and still function due to
platelets and trauma, becuase they couldn't take over-damage.

Phil (Renegade)

Oh yeah, expand the over damage rules so that you can also take overdamage
from auto-fire, ie, you fire 6 rounds from a rifle :- 14D, you fire
9 rounds normnall 17D, but if they don't have 8 body, then they take a
deadly, and an extra box of overflow for their trouble
Message no. 4
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:04:06 +0100
On Wed, 31 May 1995, P Ward wrote:

> heh-heh, if any if my players want to do anything but dive under
> cover at this stage, then I say let them, I've implemented a
> slight modificatiuon to the bits-blown-off rules, in that you get
> +1 to the Body Tno per 2 boxes of overflow, so the more you take,
> the more you're likely to have a stat or a leg amputated ;-)
I like that, I think I might use it <evil GM grin>

> Oh yeah, and he said KO, as in out, not KD, as in down, you get
> knocked down, you ronly problem is -2 to be hit in H2H, -1
> stationary target, and spenmding a Simple Action to get back up again.
Thanks for noticing! :)

> I also use the damage level that hit you (ie. after dodging) as the
> number of successes needed for the Knock-back test, ie if you get
> hit, but not damaged, then the force of the blow might still knock
> you over, even though it did no 'real' physical damage.
Originally I did this as well but I thought it was perhaps too number
crunchy in that you have to calculate how damage was staged -do knockdown
and then resist and calculate damage again. I just say that even if no
damage is taken a Knock Back roll might still be in order -but like a
Light wound only needing 1 success to succeed (so you either fall prone
or theres no effect). But I only call for knockback rolls when there is a
reasonavle chance of failure or only partial success (otherwise it slows
down the combat).

> Oh yeah, expand the over damage rules so that you can also take overdamage
> from auto-fire, ie, you fire 6 rounds from a rifle :- 14D, you fire
> 9 rounds normnall 17D, but if they don't have 8 body, then they take a
> deadly, and an extra box of overflow for their trouble
I think the over damage rules per FoF are too number crunchy, I have
always said that if damage is staged above deadly, any extra stages count
as either a Light, Moderate etc wound.

Eg Deadly+1 stage is 11 boxes (a Deadly plus a Light)
Deadly+2 is 13 boxes (a Deadly plus a Moderate)
Deadly+3 is 16 boxes
Deadly+4 is 20 boxes
Deadly+5 is 21 boxes (two Deadlys and a Light)
etc

This is especially useful when do Stun damage as its easy to say okay
you're knocked out and take a Moderate Physical as well (for Deadly+2).

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:48:30 +0200
>I think the over damage rules per FoF are too number crunchy, I have
>always said that if damage is staged above deadly, any extra stages count
>as either a Light, Moderate etc wound.

Which boils down to exactly the rules I have been using for the past few
months :) They work pretty good, at least now it's getting more dangerous
for people with ridiculously high Body Attributes...

>This is especially useful when do Stun damage as its easy to say okay
>you're knocked out and take a Moderate Physical as well (for Deadly+2).

Or to let players kill someone they only want to knock out... a 10S Stun
taser can now kill if you get 10 successes :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
she's just as bored as me
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 6
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 20:16:30 BST
> Or to let players kill someone they only want to knock out... a 10S Stun
> taser can now kill if you get 10 successes :)

Now there's something I've wanted to aslk for a time, when you hit someone
with a stun weapon, and you stage up to the point where they start taking
physical damage, do you guys treat it in the same way as over-damage?

ie. One box per two extra successes, and only for Power >= 2x Body
or One physical wound level per two extra successes.

This is one blow we're talking here, and for the moment I've been using (b)

Phil (Renegade, GM, not renegade GM ;-) )
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:21:31 +0200
>Now there's something I've wanted to aslk for a time, when you hit someone
>with a stun weapon, and you stage up to the point where they start taking
>physical damage, do you guys treat it in the same way as over-damage?

Yes, I do (that sounds like I'm marrying Phil :)

>ie. One box per two extra successes, and only for Power >= 2x Body
> or One physical wound level per two extra successes.

Actually: 2 extra successes = Light; 4 extra successes = Moderate, 6 =
Serious, 8 = Deadly, 10 = Deadly+Light, and so on.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
she's just as bored as me
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 8
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:11:31 BST
Gurth wrote :-

> Yes, I do (that sounds like I'm marrying Phil :)

Hey, chummer, getcher mitts off, I'm spoken for ;-)

and he wrote :-
> That's what I do all the time: when Jane shoots Joe, and Jane has an 8M
> assault rifle firing 9 rounds with 5 successes, then Joe gets to roll
> against (17-armor). Let's say he gets 2 successes; Jane still has 17(D+1) +
> 3 successes, giving Joe a wound 2 levels over Deadly, which in my game is a
> Deadly plus a Moderate.

A better exmple than mine, but I use the tandard FofF +1 box per 2 extra,
rather than one wound level, but then I augmented the chances of getting a leg
removed by heavy fire ;-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 9
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Incapacitated PCs
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:06:03 +0200
> Now there's something I've wanted to aslk for a time, when you hit someone
> with a stun weapon, and you stage up to the point where they start taking
> physical damage, do you guys treat it in the same way as over-damage?
>
> ie. One box per two extra successes, and only for Power >= 2x Body
> or One physical wound level per two extra successes.
>
> This is one blow we're talking here, and for the moment I've been using (b)

Me two and I think that it makes the most sence.

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