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Message no. 1
From: DV8 dv8@********.nl
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:42:42 +0200
Hail Runners,

A simple one for you all this time;

I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3 sourcebook and saw
the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
matter.
Target of this spell (the TN for the Sorcery Test) is the Reaction of
the person it is cast upon. The desired effect is always the increase in
initiative determined by the level of the spell (+1, +2 or +3).
I think I'm missing something very obvious, because there should be a
difference in Force 1 and 6 for such a powerful spell (aside from the
Drain).
Help!?!

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 2
From: Kenneth Vinson kennethv@****.wisc.edu
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 02:57:03 -0500
DV8 wrote:

> Hail Runners,
>
> A simple one for you all this time;
>
> I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3 sourcebook and saw
> the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
> to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
> matter.
> Target of this spell (the TN for the Sorcery Test) is the Reaction of
> the person it is cast upon. The desired effect is always the increase in
> initiative determined by the level of the spell (+1, +2 or +3).
> I think I'm missing something very obvious, because there should be a
> difference in Force 1 and 6 for such a powerful spell (aside from the
> Drain).
> Help!?!
>
> Dennis
>
> "Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."

Increase Reflexes is one of the few spells left in 3rd edition that you can safely
take at low Force. You're right, it is a powerful spell but how are you going to
work a Force related restriction in on it. So, your perception is correct; you can
take it at Force 1 and still get the same effect. One caveat, if you quicken it at
Force 1, it's easier to dispel. Other than that, no reason to take it at high
force.

Cheers,

Ken Vinson
Message no. 3
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:03:49 +0200
Kenneth Vinson wrote:
> You're right, it is a powerful spell but how are you going to
> work a Force related restriction in on it.

Does anyone have a good idea of how to Force restrict this spell?

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 4
From: Quindrael D.N.M.vanNederveen@****.warande.ruu.nl
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:04:08 +0200
>One caveat, if you quicken it at Force 1, it's easier to dispel.

Not only quicken, but just sustain. And dispelling is no metamagic anymore,
every mage can do it (possibly they might have to perceive it astrally, not
sure about this). So a lower force means that corp mage can much easier
turn you from a leopard in a snake... without the Transform spell :-)

VrGr David

"We are all of different sexes, though with only two brands of equipment"
(Greg Bear - "Slant")

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Message no. 5
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:18:52 -0700 (PDT)
> Kenneth Vinson wrote:
> > You're right, it is a powerful spell but how are you going to work
a Force related restriction in on it.

> Does anyone have a good idea of how to Force restrict this spell?
> Dennis

One thing I tried was to make the spell like the other Increase
Attribute spells. Pluses equal to successes (or 1/2 successes if you're
feeling nasty), up to a maximum of force. So if you have a force 3
spell, with the first option you can get up to three dice, but only if
you roll three successes. With the second option you can only get +1
die! With a force 6 spell, the first option will give you a maximum of
+3 dice, whether you roll 3 successes or 6 or whatever. With the second
option, you can get +3 dice, but you need 6 successes.

We figured drain from the Increase Reflexes +3 spell, but unless you're
an evil GM, I'd recommend figuring the drain from the +2 spell.
Otherwise, with the variable effect, it's a bit TOO nasty on the
player.

*Doc'...ah, ferget it...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 6
From: Trunks Ryuko kawaii@********.org
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:07:04 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 28 Jun 1999, DV8 wrote:

> Hail Runners,
>
> A simple one for you all this time;
>
> I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3 sourcebook and saw
> the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
> to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
> matter.
> Target of this spell (the TN for the Sorcery Test) is the Reaction of
> the person it is cast upon. The desired effect is always the increase in
> initiative determined by the level of the spell (+1, +2 or +3).
> I think I'm missing something very obvious, because there should be a
> difference in Force 1 and 6 for such a powerful spell (aside from the
> Drain).
> Help!?!
>
> Dennis
>
The main difference is how easy it can be dispelled. A force 1 spell is
easily dispelled by anyone, while a force 6 isn't. =)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 7
From: gordmeister@*********.org gordmeister@*********.org
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:17:11 +0100
Sorry, newbie silly question coming up:

Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering if the speed increase is
worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by sustaining the spell?


gordmeister
Message no. 8
From: Caxal Balam arkainer@*****.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Sorry, newbie silly question coming up:
>
> Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering
> if the speed increase is
> worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by
> sustaining the spell?
>
>
> gordmeister
>


It is worth when u use it with foci that helps you sustain the spell
or by anchoring it to u or quickening it, but sustaining it just for a
scene I dont see the case to have a +2 in ALL ur targets



=Êxal Balam
The Roar of the Jaguar
"That's the things were and that's the things are"
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Message no. 9
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:30:04 -0400
At 07:17 PM 6/28/99 +0100, gordmeister@*********.org wrote:
>
>Sorry, newbie silly question coming up:
>
>Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering if the speed increase is
>worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by sustaining the spell?

Sure it is. Sustaining Focus. And if you brave against the possibility of
dispel then a Force 1 sustaining focus doesn't cost much at all.

--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:51:43 -0500
:> You're right, it is a powerful spell but how are you going to
:> work a Force related restriction in on it.
:
:Does anyone have a good idea of how to Force restrict this spell?
:
:Dennis


If you feel the need, one way would be to limit successes by force, as
with many other spells. No big deal- unless you also require a threshold
equal to the targets normal reaction...
This would make the spell harder to use in general- the force would have
to equal target reaction, and you'd need more than 1 success. You could
probably be safe dropping the TN to 4 if you did so.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:24:49 -0500
:> Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering
:> if the speed increase is
:> worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by
:> sustaining the spell?

: It is worth when u use it with foci that helps you sustain the spell
:or by anchoring it to u or quickening it, but sustaining it just for a
:scene I dont see the case to have a +2 in ALL ur targets


A commonly overlooked method of sustaining spells is ritual sorcery.
Since this spell is still "effective" at force 1, it can be economical
(time, cash, and karma wise) to cast it ritually, allocating dice towards
the letting the ritual sustain the spell. This may not be worth it for a
spellcaster's personal use, but could be used to occasionally give his
buddies a little boost, if things were planned out right.

Mongoose
Message no. 12
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:45:13 -0500
DV8 wrote:
/Hail Runners,
/
/A simple one for you all this time;
/
/ I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3 sourcebook and saw
/the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
/to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
/matter.
/ Target of this spell (the TN for the Sorcery Test) is the Reaction of
/the person it is cast upon. The desired effect is always the increase in
/initiative determined by the level of the spell (+1, +2 or +3).
/ I think I'm missing something very obvious, because there should be a
/difference in Force 1 and 6 for such a powerful spell (aside from the
/Drain).

The downside is that a low Force sustained spell is easy to dispel.

Here's how it works in my group.

If they have an inkling that they may be in combat, they'll plan ahead and
the mage will cast a high Force Increased Reflexes spell several hours
ahead of time. Course, this makes the target of the spell a big shining
beacon for anyone with astral perception, in which case they go with option
two (see below).

If they're caught with their pants down the mage will whip off a quick
Force 1 Increased Reflexes.

On the off chance I have a magic on my (The GM) side and dispel their
sustained spells, it's usualy a sign to the characters that surrender is a
viable option <EGMG>.

-Graht
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Message no. 13
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:12:34 EDT
In a message dated 6/28/1999 2:45:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dv8@********.nl writes:

> I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3 sourcebook and
saw
> the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
> to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
> matter.
> Target of this spell (the TN for the Sorcery Test) is the Reaction of
> the person it is cast upon. The desired effect is always the increase in
> initiative determined by the level of the spell (+1, +2 or +3).
> I think I'm missing something very obvious, because there should be a
> difference in Force 1 and 6 for such a powerful spell (aside from the
> Drain).
> Help!?!

You want the truth? There is NO restriction.

Some suggestions??? Why yes I have had a few thoughts on this matter...

A) The spell will NOT work on a person who's reaction attribute is greater
than the force of the spell. Make sure that ALL boosts to the reaction
attribute (including an Increase Reaction Attribute spell) are considered
here.

B) It's a Health spell that directly affects the body, give the spell a
Threshold (Body) if you want, and make sure that the threshold is considered
a special part of the spells' function...at that point, there becomes a
reason to have a higher force spell IF the GM so chooses.

C) The spell will NOT work on a person who's Body attribute is greater than
the force of the spell. (strange, but it works too)

Just some thoughts...

-K
Message no. 14
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:59:52 +0200
According to gordmeister@*********.org, at 19:17 on 28 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering if the speed increase is
> worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by sustaining the spell?

You're not doing it right. Increase Reflexes is a spell you only actually
sustain yourself in emergencies. Normally, you'd put it into a sustaining
focus (or even quickening/anchoring if you're an initiate and want people
to know it :) and let that do the work for you.

That way, it's a very useful spell; if you have to sustain it yourself,
the +2 TN modifier does make it seem to me like more hassle than it's
worth, most of the time.

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Message no. 15
From: gordmeister@*********.org gordmeister@*********.org
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:36:00 +0100
> At 07:17 PM 6/28/99 +0100, gordmeister@*********.org wrote:
> >
> >Sorry, newbie silly question coming up:
> >
> >Is Increased Reflexes ever worth it? Just wondering if the speed increase is
> >worth the +2 modifiers to everything caused by sustaining the spell?
>
> Sure it is. Sustaining Focus. And if you brave against the possibility of
> dispel then a Force 1 sustaining focus doesn't cost much at all.

Oooh, cool. OK, I need to go reread the magic rules again - it's been waaaay
too long. That and I need to find MitS.

thanks,
gordmeister
Message no. 16
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:31:26 -0400 (EDT)
Graht <Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net> writes:
> DV8 wrote:
> /Hail Runners,
> /
> /A simple one for you all this time;
> /
> / I was reading through the Street Grimoire in the SR3
> /sourcebook and saw
> /the Increase Reflexes spell. What struck me as odd, is that there seems
> /to be no difference in casting it at Force 1, or Force 6 for that
> /matter.
>
> The downside is that a low Force sustained spell is easy to dispel.
>
> Here's how it works in my group.
>
> If they have an inkling that they may be in combat, they'll plan ahead and
> the mage will cast a high Force Increased Reflexes spell several hours
> ahead of time. Course, this makes the target of the spell a big shining
> beacon for anyone with astral perception, in which case they go with option
> two (see below).

This wouldn't be worth doing in our group, unless you cast it
into a focus. The way we run things, you don't get to recover stun
damage unless you're completely at rest, which includes sustaining
spells. Is this an uncommon way to run things?

Mark
Message no. 17
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:39:15 +0200
Mark wrote:
> This wouldn't be worth doing in our group, unless you cast it
> into a focus. The way we run things, you don't get to recover stun
> damage unless you're completely at rest, which includes sustaining
> spells. Is this an uncommon way to run things?

This is not how I do it,...but being new to things I see now that I should.
As of now runners can only recover their stun damage when they are
completely at rest.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 18
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:49:20 -0500
Mark A Shieh wrote:
/Graht <Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net> writes:

/> The downside is that a low Force sustained spell is easy to dispel.
/>
/> Here's how it works in my group.
/>
/> If they have an inkling that they may be in combat, they'll plan ahead and
/> the mage will cast a high Force Increased Reflexes spell several hours
/> ahead of time. Course, this makes the target of the spell a big shining
/> beacon for anyone with astral perception, in which case they go with option
/> two (see below).
/
/ This wouldn't be worth doing in our group, unless you cast it
/into a focus. The way we run things, you don't get to recover stun
/damage unless you're completely at rest, which includes sustaining
/spells. Is this an uncommon way to run things?

Sorry, my fault. I meant to say that they cast it on a sustaining focus
enough time before they go into action for the mage to recover from any drain.

-Graht
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Message no. 19
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:37:11 -0500
:Sorry, my fault. I meant to say that they cast it on a sustaining focus
:enough time before they go into action for the mage to recover from any
drain.
:
:-Graht


Those high force sustaining foci are pricey, though, and AFAIK, can only
be used for one spell (the one chosen when its bonded). Is it really worth
the expense? I can think of other spells I might want sustained instead,
especially at a high force.

Mongoose
Message no. 20
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:46:00 -0500
Mongoose wrote:
/:Sorry, my fault. I meant to say that they cast it on a sustaining focus
/:enough time before they go into action for the mage to recover from any
/drain.
/:
/:-Graht
/
/ Those high force sustaining foci are pricey, though, and AFAIK, can only
/be used for one spell (the one chosen when its bonded). Is it really worth
/the expense? I can think of other spells I might want sustained instead,
/especially at a high force.

Who am I to tell the PCs what to spend their money on :)

-Graht
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Message no. 21
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: Increase Reflexes - Spell
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 02:54:46 -0400
Once upon a time, Mongoose wrote;

> Those high force sustaining foci are pricey, though, and AFAIK, can only
>be used for one spell (the one chosen when its bonded).

Watch how you describe that, as another spell can be used instead by
rebonding. The Karma to bond is annoying but not prohibitive even in low
Karma campaigns like I enjoy.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Pepe Barbe)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Mon Jan 22 23:12:05 2001
Is there any reason (within the rules, that I must have missed) why there
can't be a Physical Increase Reflexes Spell?

Pepe
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Tue Jan 23 05:42:01 2001
According to Pepe Barbe, on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 the word on the street was...

> Is there any reason (within the rules, that I must have missed) why there
> can't be a Physical Increase Reflexes Spell?

The only reason I can think of is that there's the general guideline (I
won't call it a rule) that initiative dice don't stack unless it's
specifically mentioned otherwise. A Physical Increase Reflexes Spell would
add dice to an initiative rating that already has extra dice through
cyberware, which sort of violates that guideline.

Still, as there are some other extra initiative dice combos that are
apparently allowed, this is not really a reason why a Physical Increase
Reflexes Spell couldn't work. I just keep it at game balance, myself...

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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Phil Smith)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Tue Jan 23 13:12:03 2001
>From: Pepe Barbe <a19960615@****.edu.pe>
>Is there any reason (within the rules, that I must have missed) why there
>can't be a Physical Increase Reflexes Spell?

The reason that Increase Reflexes is available only in mana flavour is game
balance; the only reason you would create a physical increase reflexes spell
is to augment cyber or bioware, which could create an obscene initiative.
OTOH, you could just go for the standard "only the highest bonus applies.

Phil

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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Augustus)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Tue Jan 23 13:42:03 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Pepe Barbe <a19960615@****.edu.pe>


> Is there any reason (within the rules, that I must have missed) why there
> can't be a Physical Increase Reflexes Spell?

Almost all the Health spells are Mana based... this being because they
effect the body (or the operation of the body) rather than effecting a
change in the body. (Oxygenate is a Physical spell, it actually effects a
change in the body, to increase oxygen levels in it, rather than its overall
operation)

Since increased reflexes is an operation of the body, it makes more sense
that it'd be a Mana spell, rather than a Physical one...

If it were a physical spell, then that would be as if some kind of external
force were providing the increase in relfexes... this wouldn't necessarily
mean that the recipient would be able to act/react in such a situation.

It might make a better example if we use something like a drone instead of a
human for an example. In the hands of a rigger with vehicle control rig L:1
and a initiative of 6+2d6, at best, this drone can act on phases 18 and 8.

However, in the hands of a rigger with a vehicle control rig L:3 and an
initiative of 10+4d6, then this rigger could make the same drone operate on
a maximum initiative roll in phases 34, 24, 14 and 4.

Even though its the same drone, the first rigger can't get the same
performance out of it, because his mind doesn't act/react with the same
speed/control of the second rigger.

So I see it would be with the physical version of the spell... even though
your body might be able to act/react at a certain rate due to the spell...
it doesn't mean the recipient of the spell is able to, since his/her mind is
operating at a different/slower speed.

However... I'm figuring you are more interested in why you can't use
Increase Reflexes with cyberware...

This, I think, is more of a holdover from SR2 and carried on into SR3. SR2
tried to balance out some of the munchkinish (or "power gaming") aspects
from SR1. One of these was initiative. A human with Quickness and
Intelligence of 6, and Wired Rx L:3 would have an initiative of 12+4d6
(generating an init from 16 to 36, with an average of 26). With an
Increased Reflexes L:3 spell on you, that would increase to 12+7d6
(generating an init from 19 to 54, with an average of 37).
(This doesn't take into account move-by-wire, increased cyber reaction, the
spell increase reaction, etc)

In SR2, a PC that rolled 51 or higher on init, against a stereotype guard
with 3+1d6 for init, would act 5 times before said guard could act... and
since combat pool refreshed each action it would make a devastating force
against non-cybered opponents (plus, non-cybered other players would be
bored to death, since the one speedy guy is killing everything the PCs
encounter)

This isn't as big a deal in SR3, since everybody gets to act once before
multiple actions are done, and combat pool is only refreshed once a turn...
but still... one player jacking himself up like this would really throw the
whole group out of whack.

Thats my two cents...

Augustus
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Thu Jan 25 18:42:01 2001
From: Pepe Barbe <a19960615@****.edu.pe>
> Is there any reason (within the rules, that I must have missed) why there
> can't be a Physical Increase Reflexes Spell?

In 1st edition you hade the Increased Attribute +1-4, which could be cast at a physical or
mental attribute or reaction. If cast on reactioon it would also add extra initiative
dice.

In the Grimoire they added an Increased Cybered Attribute +1-4 in 1st edition. It would
work on any physical attribut wheter it was cybered or not. The way we used to play, was
that we also let it be cast on cybered reaction, but the maximum bonus you could ever get
was +4 dice (for a total of +5 dice), no matter how many cybered dice and how many magical
dice.

I cannot see any reason why this couldn't be valid, and the max +5 dice was a purely game
balancing thing. It worked fine for us.

So just make your own version of Increase Cybered Reflexes with an increased drain, and
maybe a maximum initiative bonus.

Lars
--
Santa is very jolly because he knows where all the bad girls live.
--
Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
Message no. 27
From: jcotton1@*********.net (jcotton1@*********.net)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:59:52 -0500
(Actually, this is really just testing the list because it's been 12 hours without a
message, which is pretty rare. :) )

Is there a reason to buy the Increased Reflexes spell (at whatever level) at a power
greater than, say, 2? I mean, you're unlikely to be casting it on anyone that's going to
be trying to resist it, right? Or is there something I'm missing here?


Joseph M. Cotton
"There are only two stories in all of literature -- a man goes on a journey, and a
stranger comes to town." Leo Tolstoy
Message no. 28
From: shadowrunnerdingo@*****.com (Dingo)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:11:50 -0800 (PST)
<Snip>
> Is there a reason to buy the Increased Reflexes
> spell (at whatever level) at a power greater than,
> say, 2? I mean, you're unlikely to be casting it on
> anyone that's going to be trying to resist it,
> right? Or is there something I'm missing here?

This is an intersting question that was brought up in
my group. The force of the spell is the determining
factor in how easy it is to Dispel. If another mage
decides to Dispel the Increased Reflexes spell you
only make it easier to Dispel by taking the spell at a
force rating of 1 or 2. A mage can attempt an
Assensing test first to learn the spells force and
then attempt to Dispel it.

Dingo



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Message no. 29
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:42:22 -0500
At 11:59 PM 11/19/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>(Actually, this is really just testing the list because it's been 12 hours
>without a message, which is pretty rare. :) )

I wouldn't know; my server-side filter randomly overacts.

>Is there a reason to buy the Increased Reflexes spell (at whatever level)
at a >power greater than, say, 2? I mean, you're unlikely to be casting it
on >anyone that's going to be trying to resist it, right? Or is there
something >I'm missing here?

That depends on the edition you are playing, but I belive the target is twice
Reaction, willing or not.
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/
Message no. 30
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:42:54 +0100
According to jcotton1@*********.net, on Saturday 20 November 2004 05:59 the
word on the street was...

> (Actually, this is really just testing the list because it's been 12
> hours without a message, which is pretty rare. :) )

Not so rare as last time you were on this list :(

> Is there a reason to buy the Increased Reflexes spell (at whatever
> level) at a power greater than, say, 2? I mean, you're unlikely to be
> casting it on anyone that's going to be trying to resist it, right? Or
> is there something I'm missing here?

You've missed that somebody can dispell or attack it in astral combat, but
that's not exactly a common occurance in most games AFAIK. Increase
Reflexes is one of the few spells that you can safely take at Force 1 and
have no trouble with whatsoever.

If this bothers you, of course, you can always change the spell to give,
say, +1D6 per two successes, with maximum successes equal to the Force.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 31
From: jcotton1@*********.net (Joseph Cotton)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:52:22 -0500
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ubiquitous
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 2:42 AM
>
>
> That depends on the edition you are playing, but I belive the
> target is twice Reaction, willing or not.

I thought of that, except that (so far as I know) the spell's power
has nothing to do with how many dice you put into casting it -- that's
your spellcasting skill.

I believe Dingo hit the nail on the head, though, when he pointed out
that it would be easier for someone to dispell it if you had it at a
very low level.

> - Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/

Personally, my favorite is Ted Johnson telling his neighbor Clyde, who
has just said that he drinks paint thinner so that he can see the
invisible chickens when his heat vision kicks in, that he'll go have
some shoe polish so that he can stun them with lightning bolts from
his chin. :)

Joe Cotton
Message no. 32
From: shadowrunnerdingo@*****.com (Dingo)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:07:21 -0800 (PST)
<Snip>
> > That depends on the edition you are playing, but I
> belive the
> > target is twice Reaction, willing or not.
>
> I thought of that, except that (so far as I know)
> the spell's power
> has nothing to do with how many dice you put into
> casting it -- that's
> your spellcasting skill.

Yes, this true, the Force of the spell has nothing to
do with how many dice you can put behind it.

> I believe Dingo hit the nail on the head, though,
> when he pointed out
> that it would be easier for someone to dispell it if
> you had it at a
> very low level.

Thank you, and at that point Dispelling becomes a
successes game and then the Dispeller needs to shunt
off the drain of the spell as if he had actually cast
the spell. I believe Gurth was right as well. Even
taking the spell at a force one or two will cause the
attacking mage to resist the high level of drain that
that spell holds. So, most mages will avoid attempting
to Dispel in combat.....Of course that is only my
opinion.

Dingo



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Message no. 33
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:12:21 +0100
According to Dingo, on Saturday 20 November 2004 19:07 the word on the
street was...

> taking the spell at a force one or two will cause the
> attacking mage to resist the high level of drain that
> that spell holds. So, most mages will avoid attempting
> to Dispel in combat.....Of course that is only my
> opinion.

I don't see much of a problem -- if you have the skill and Spell Pool to
cast such spells, you also have the skill and Spell Pool to dispel them...
(You may not want to "waste" your pool dice on something like this, of
course, but that's another matter. Not to mention that not all dispelling
needs to occur during combat -- even with a spell like this whose only
real use is in combat.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 34
From: james@****.uow.edu.au (James Niall Zealey)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:20:05 +1100
> Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
>
> I don't see much of a problem -- if you have the skill and Spell Pool to
> cast such spells, you also have the skill and Spell Pool to dispel them...
> (You may not want to "waste" your pool dice on something like this, of
> course, but that's another matter. Not to mention that not all dispelling
> needs to occur during combat -- even with a spell like this whose only
> real use is in combat.)
>
Well, most mages can't reliably take a 5D drain, or if they DO, then
they used up their entire pool doing it.

The difference is that the casting mage used up his pool before the
combat, when it didn't matter.

The dispeller uses it up during combat, and then takes some nasty draing
AND THEN gets toasted by his opponent.

Which is the real reason secure areas have wards - so mages have to cast
their kick-ass boost spells while the heat is on.
Message no. 35
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: Increase Reflexes Spell
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:53:26 -0500
At 08:52 AM 11/20/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>Personally, my favorite is Ted Johnson telling his neighbor>Clyde, who has just
said that he drinks paint thinner so that he can see>the invisible chickens when his
heat vision kicks in, that he'll go>have some shoe polish so that he can stun them with
lightning bolts>from his chin. :)

Hee!
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/

Further Reading

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