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Message no. 1
From: sheehys@**.kensco.net (Sheehys)
Subject: I need comments
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 21:47:16 GMT
I would like comments on the following in character handout. Does this seem
possible to do in Shadowrun? If so, how would the game mechanics work? If not
why not? Thanks in advance for everyone's help.




Greetings M'Lord;
I have been busy on the "project" that you wished me to checked on.
What follows is a "project update" taken from several different systems.

-<< HEADER DAMAGED: .02 Mp CORRUPTED>>-
FROM: -<< DATA DAMAGE >>-
TO: -<< DATA DAMAGE >>-
And my original idea of a virus attacking cyber. It would be nothing more
then a nuisence, like maybe a point of inish downgraded every two or three
times of use, or cumulitive mods for smartlinks, but it would force the
sammies to spend money they are saving for bigger cyber or guns to go get the
virus cleaned. They could get a virus cleaner, but then there is more
money, plus the fact of changing virii and the need to upgrade,
spending more money! It was never intended to have the cyber fall
apart in the middle of a run, or to kill him/her, unlike another idea
one of my _runners_ had.
-<< DATA DAMAGED: .01 Mp CORRUPTED>>-

It seems that the "competitors" maybe working on several different ideas of
achieving the same effect. The following is some background I found in a
"medical library" file on my last run.

-<<HEADER DAMAGED: .03 Mp CORRUPTED>>-
-<<<<<[ EXCERPT FROM: SHADOWTECH Page 39 ]>>>>>-
When an individual is ready for the final stages of cyberware
integration, b-galactose is introduced into his bloodstream and guided into
the requisite pattern through the use of NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance)
devices. Threaders are then injected into the bloodstream. The nanites
converge and congregate at the b-galactose sites and eventually die from the
self-produced toxins. A simple enzyme treatment then dissolves away the
protein shells, leaving a surface-bonded layer of platinum or gold conductive
material that was impregnated within the threader's cell wall. As a final
step, coaters are attracted to the conductive material left by the threaders.
They will attach themselves to it before, leaving a protective protein sheath.
-<< DATA DAMAGED: .02 Mp CORRUPTED >>-

As you can see this is a very simple description of cyberware integration.

-<< DATA DAMAGED: .03 Mp CORRUPTED >>-
***** CONFIDENTIAL MEMO *****
FROM: Dr. -<< DATA DAMAGED >>-
TO: -<< DATA DAMAGED >>-
PROJECT UPDATE: BLUE PICASSO
Nanite test group 34B has been very promising in control group test. I
believe we have finally got the right set of hunters for striping of the
protective protein sheath. Test subject has shown marked deficiencies in all
cyberware interface/control is as little as 5 minutes and as long as 30
minutes. The average is still 15 - 20 minutes for 85% of the control group.
We have also had a 25% total loss of all cyberware interface/control and total
shut down of all cyberware in less than 24 hours with one causing a fatality.
The delivery system of NarcoJect dart has been determined as an effective
means of delivery of the nanite dart. Although we still have not found a
reliable means of keeping the nanites in stasis in the dart for more than 72
hours. I believe even with this deficiency that field test can begin at any
time.
***** CONFIDENTIAL MEMO *****

The above is the most disturbing and seems to be the only one in the group of
systems that you asked me to check that is far enough along to begin with
field testing. The above memo came from the same company that we discussed in
my last "project update." The rest of the group still seem to be in initial
control group testing. I will continue to check these groups as per you
instructions.
-- Cu An Mabh --
Message no. 2
From: Lomion <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:08:21 -0500
>And my original idea of a virus attacking cyber. It would be nothing more
>then a nuisence, like maybe a point of inish downgraded every two or three
>times of use, or cumulitive mods for smartlinks, but it would force the
>sammies to spend money they are saving for bigger cyber or guns to go get the
>virus cleaned. They could get a virus cleaner, but then there is more
>money, plus the fact of changing virii and the need to upgrade,
>spending more money! It was never intended to have the cyber fall
>apart in the middle of a run, or to kill him/her, unlike another idea
>one of my _runners_ had.

A virus in a cubersystem would be very hard on implement for the simple
purpose of getting it there. Most systems are fullt stand-alone, except for
the various jacks and interface links. Wired reflexes doesn't get hooked to
a computer very often, and is mostly self-maintainging (except for any real
damage to it). I prefer the cyber-hit rules if I want to really screw with
cyberware.


> Nanite test group 34B has been very promising in control group test. I
>believe we have finally got the right set of hunters for striping of the
>protective protein sheath. Test subject has shown marked deficiencies in all
>cyberware interface/control is as little as 5 minutes and as long as 30
>minutes. The average is still 15 - 20 minutes for 85% of the control group.
>We have also had a 25% total loss of all cyberware interface/control and total
>shut down of all cyberware in less than 24 hours with one causing a fatality.
> The delivery system of NarcoJect dart has been determined as an effective
>means of delivery of the nanite dart. Although we still have not found a
>reliable means of keeping the nanites in stasis in the dart for more than 72
>hours. I believe even with this deficiency that field test can begin at any
>time.

A couple of questions, how do the nanites know where to go, the B-glucose is
what directs them in the first place, but is consumed by them before they
are destroyed, I guess you could code them to consume the protein sheath in
the same manner Though.
But the threaders are what lays down the cyberware pathways not the sheath
formers. Something like this would be best simulated by causing Cybersystem
hits. But is there a way to remove them? If they are made self-replicating
then a person could never have functioning cyberware and still have a low
essence without any recoourse, also do symbiotes prtoect against it, as they
would attack foreign agents if immuno-supressors aren't used. The
implications of having an injectable cyber-destroy are nasty, and exteremly
har to deal with unless you can get to a shadow clinic( i would assume a
beta or alpha level clinic at the least to deal with this). To me it's
seems a harsh way to make your samurai spend money. But that's just my opinion



Larry
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I had only to wish that here be a large crowd
of spectators then day of my execution and that
they greet me with cries of hate."
A. Camus, "The Stranger"
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: sheehys@**.kensco.net (Sheehys)
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 22:50:17 GMT
On Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:08:21 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>>A couple of questions, how do the nanites know where to go, the
B-glucose is
>>>>>what directs them in the first place, but is consumed by them before
they
>>>>>are destroyed, I guess you could code them to consume the protein
sheath in
>>>>>the same manner Though.
That is the concept. Once the protein sheath is removed the body natural
defenses would take over and see the metal in the cyberware as a foreign
substance and try to get rid of it.

>>>>> But the threaders are what lays down the cyberware pathways not the
sheath
>>>>>formers. Something like this would be best simulated by causing
Cybersystem
>>>>>hits. But is there a way to remove them?
I'm not looking at removing cyberware but at removing the protein sheath the
keeps the body from rejecting the cyberware. To fix the problem all it would
take is just having coaters reintroduced to the body to cover the metal. The
only loss to cyberware would be what the body would do to the metal in
rejection, which would be very little if it is taken care of quickly.

>>>>>If they are made self-replicating then a person could never have
functioning
>>>>>cyberware and still have a low essence without any recoourse, also do
>>>>>symbiotes prtoect against it, as they would attack foreign agents if
>>>>>immuno-supressors aren't used. The implications of having an
injectable
>>>>>cyber-destroy are nasty, and exteremly har to deal with unless you can
get
>>>>>to a shadow clinic( i would assume a beta or alpha level clinic at the
least
>>>>>to deal with this). To me it's seems a harsh way to make your samurai

>>>>>spend money. But that's just my opinion
So far I would assume that symbiotes would protect against it. This is not
something that would be a fast way of destroying cyberware. It is a slow way of
degrading the ability of cyberware, similar to software programs degrading in
VR2.0. The other thing to consider is that this will not only affect samurai
but anyone with cyberware. I do not see this as a harsh way of making samurai
spend money. I was just looking through the rules and was trying to come up
with some interesting ways to affect cyberware with out blowing them out of the
body. The other thing that this could be used for is upgrading. Nanites that
could go in and strip out the outdated cyberware and then newly created
cyberware could be inplanted/grown in its place. Just some thoughts.
Message no. 4
From: Piers Meynell <SAC5PM@*******.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 03:44:40 GMT
Hello!

> >>>>>A couple of questions, how do the nanites know where to go, the
B-glucose is
> >>>>>what directs them in the first place, but is consumed by them
before they
> >>>>>are destroyed, I guess you could code them to consume the protein
sheath in
> >>>>>the same manner Though.
> That is the concept. Once the protein sheath is removed the body natural
> defenses would take over and see the metal in the cyberware as a foreign
> substance and try to get rid of it.

[Snip]

Just another 03:38 thought :) I belive titanium has a rather useful
charateristic. When used in orthopedic implants, the bone actually
grows into the imperfections in its surface above and beyond what
normally would be expected i.e the bone excepts the metal into its
mesh no/little bone scar tissure etc. Thus making the nanites your
suggesting somewhat less effective on certain types of cyberware.
Hmm that could make removing titanium bone lacing a rather pleasent
experience :)
Anyone care to correct me please? :)

Piers "Insomnia is my friend" Meynell
Message no. 5
From: tsbtal@********.com (Tal Kedem)
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:10:53 -0500
On Feb 05, 1996 03:44:40, 'Piers Meynell <SAC5PM@*******.ac.uk>' wrote:


>
>Just another 03:38 thought :) I belive titanium has a rather useful
>charateristic. When used in orthopedic implants, the bone actually
>grows into the imperfections in its surface above and beyond what
>normally would be expected i.e the bone excepts the metal into its
>mesh no/little bone scar tissure etc. Thus making the nanites your
>suggesting somewhat less effective on certain types of cyberware.
>Hmm that could make removing titanium bone lacing a rather pleasent
>experience :)
>Anyone care to correct me please? :)
>
>Piers "Insomnia is my friend" Meynell

Actually (and i forget where i hear this), Titanium is found to be
EXTREMELY compatible with humans, more so than any other metal, and almost
any other plastic or such...

Don't know many of the details...but thought that might be of some use :)

--
-Lord Tallion <Tal Kedem>
GAT d- s: a--- C++++ ULC>+++ P+>+++ L+>++ E W+ N+ o !K-- w !O M-- V
PS+
PE+ Y++ PGP t++ !5 X R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D+ G+ e@ h@ !r y?
tsbtal@***.pipeline.com or tkedem@********.hchs.hunter.cuny.edu
http://heimdall.hchs.hunter.cuny.edu
All I needed to know about Shakespeare I learned from
watching "Gargoyles"
Message no. 6
From: shadow@**.kensco.net (The Shadowdancer)
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 06:59:34 GMT
>From out of the Shadows, Lomion whispered:

>>And my original idea of a virus attacking cyber. It would be nothing more
>>then a nuisence, like maybe a point of inish downgraded every two or three
<stuff deleted>

>A virus in a cubersystem would be very hard on implement for the simple
>purpose of getting it there. Most systems are fullt stand-alone, except for
>the various jacks and interface links. Wired reflexes doesn't get hooked to
>a computer very often, and is mostly self-maintainging (except for any real
>damage to it). I prefer the cyber-hit rules if I want to really screw with
>cyberware.

You hit this a bit late. Sheehys was quoting from a post I made about
two weeks ago. The virus was to be implemented either by flash-pack
(flash programing) or through induction pads. And I was not intent on
destroying the cyber, just cause an inconvience.

>
>> Nanite test group 34B has been very promising in control group test. I
>>believe we have finally got the right set of hunters for striping of the
>>protective protein sheath. Test subject has shown marked deficiencies in all

>
>A couple of questions, how do the nanites know where to go, the B-glucose is
>what directs them in the first place, but is consumed by them before they
>are destroyed, I guess you could code them to consume the protein sheath in
>the same manner Though.

That was the point of the message. The nanites in question were to go
after the special protien sheath, and strip it from the gold and
platinum that connects the cyber wires to the nerves.

> But the threaders are what lays down the cyberware pathways not the sheath
>formers. Something like this would be best simulated by causing Cybersystem
>hits. But is there a way to remove them? If they are made self-replicating

They were not required to remove the coating that the threaders lay
down. They were to just strip the protien sheath, in an effort to
cause system rejection.

>then a person could never have functioning cyberware and still have a low
>essence without any recoourse, also do symbiotes prtoect against it, as they
>would attack foreign agents if immuno-supressors aren't used. The

Symbiotes could used as a defense against it.

>implications of having an injectable cyber-destroy are nasty, and exteremly
>har to deal with unless you can get to a shadow clinic( i would assume a
>beta or alpha level clinic at the least to deal with this). To me it's
>seems a harsh way to make your samurai spend money. But that's just my opinion

This was not my idea. It was the idea of one of my runners.

First, the MegaCorps would be using this as either a defense against
shadowrunners, or in the form those capsule things ( cannot remember
the name ) injected into there own cybered guys to maintain loyality.
Like they really give a frag if it is harsh or not.

Second, it is easier to use then the cyber hits. While this is
usefull in firefights, our games have been going away from gratutious
violence, and more to the problem solving aspects. Running gunfights
in Downtown every other day tends to not be to realistic.

Third, it is a hell of a lot nicer then having your sammie captured by
the local Yaks or the MegaCorps. They tend to remove cyber by ripping
it out, not through surgery. Now which is harsher?


-------------------------------------------------------------
Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever God they
follow will smile upon them.
I waltz through the Shadows with my Gods, and I lead!!
-The Shadowdancer (shadow@**.kensco.net)
Message no. 7
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: I need comments
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:07:25 +0000 (GMT)
| But the threaders are what lays down the cyberware pathways not the sheath
|formers. Something like this would be best simulated by causing Cybersystem
|hits. But is there a way to remove them? If they are made self-replicating
|then a person could never have functioning cyberware and still have a low
|essence without any recoourse, also do symbiotes prtoect against it, as they
|would attack foreign agents if immuno-supressors aren't used. The
|implications of having an injectable cyber-destroy are nasty, and exteremly
|har to deal with unless you can get to a shadow clinic( i would assume a
|beta or alpha level clinic at the least to deal with this). To me it's
|seems a harsh way to make your samurai spend money. But that's just my opinion

There is something much more lethal than that already in Shadowtech.
It's called DOOM and I wouldn't put that into on of my games for ANY REASON.
That is th stupidest unbalancing thing I'vee seen in shadowrun.
Your Cyber-destroying nanites are kittens compared to that.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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