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Message no. 1
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Information-gathering character
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 18:23:45 -0500
The character I'm currently playing is a freelance reporter acting
as a decker-type to earn some cash and stay away from some legal
entanglements. I set this guy up because my characters usually end up
being the person to initiate Matrix research -- and, sometimes, any type
of research at all. (This is perhaps because I'm the only player with any
experience doing Gopher -- and now WWW -- types of information gathering.)
For reasons not worth rehashing, though, we tend to avoid my
doing any _serious_ decking -- just research.
As I was reading through Grimthingy II, I began to understand the
research and surveillance potential avaliable to conjuring mages --
especially through judicious use of Watcher spirits. So, I can't help
but think that a very good combination of talents for doing research in
the shadows would be a Conjuring adept with a high enough Computer skill
to get information from the Matrix as well.
Now, I know some of you are just _itching_ to start arguing about
mages in the matrix -- well, I'm not talking about creating a mage
character who can effectively combat black IC and such, or even crack into
major systems. This guy would only rarely actually have to jack in except
possibly to speed up the creation of smartframes or some such.
Any thoughts, suggestions, or pitfalls to watch out for?

-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| "Well I don't know, but I been told, |
| You never slow down, you never grow old." -Tom Petty |
----========== ftp://cais.com/pub/jdfalk/html/homepage.html ==========----
Message no. 2
From: Erik S Jameson <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 16:34:50 -0700
I like it. Perhaps the most effective character in SR could be a mage
(conjuring or combat, depending on preferences) that also has some skill
with computers and decking. My character (the Whistler) has some pretty
heavy headware and some skill with computers, and he can perform _most_
of the skills necessary for runs.

The only problem I can see with your idea is that Watchers are not very
bright, and probably aren't realiable spies. I think just merely going
astral would be better for info gathering.

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
Message no. 3
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 11:09:01 +1100
J.D. Falk writes:

> As I was reading through Grimthingy II, I began to understand the
> research and surveillance potential avaliable to conjuring mages --
> especially through judicious use of Watcher spirits.

Yep. Given the standard FASA line of mages being able to hear and
understand speech when they're astral.

I gather that the mage in Burning Bright also used a materialised
spirit to read street signs. Since (standard FASA) mages can _also_
materialise, I wonder what's different about spirits materialising.
I also wonder where the spirit learned to read!

(I gather there was also lots of spellcasting on the astral plane :-( )

I'll say it again: only people that rigorously protect locations
from astral intrusion will be safe from astral spying. Especially
if you allow a shaman to summon hearth spirits while astral. (This
_isn't_ allowed, is it? Somebody reassure me.)

So - consider the buildings in Seattle, and how many of them would
have areas that people would want to keep safe from astral beings.
And I don't just mean places like the Honeymoon suites of major
hotels.

Does anyone else think that most buildings in Seattle would be
absolutely overgrown in ivy? Changes your mental picture of the
futuristic city, eh?

luke
Message no. 4
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 19:05:28 -0700
Since I finished Burning Bright last night :)

>I gather that the mage in Burning Bright also used a materialised
>spirit to read street signs. Since (standard FASA) mages can _also_
>materialise, I wonder what's different about spirits materialising.
>I also wonder where the spirit learned to read!

The spirit you are mentioning was a FAMILIAR (ally spirit of an initiate)
As such it had an actual physical form and the knowledge of it creator.
It didn't just manifest in the physical plane - it had a true - not alterable
physical form.

>(I gather there was also lots of spellcasting on the astral plane :-( )

Yes, there was spellcasting in astral - but when he took drain - it was physical
- just like the rules say.

>Does anyone else think that most buildings in Seattle would be
>absolutely overgrown in ivy? Changes your mental picture of the
>futuristic city, eh?

Ivy would NOT grow. You need something for it to feed on. When you see ivy on
a building - you will notice a few things -
1 - that the building is made of bricks or such (normally)
2 - that there is free ground (not covered by concrete or asphalt) near the ivy.


Nightfox
Message no. 5
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 17:24:29 +1100
Nightfox wrote:

luke>I gather that the mage in Burning Bright also used a materialised
luke>spirit to read street signs. Since (standard FASA) mages can _also_
luke>materialise, I wonder what's different about spirits materialising.

> The spirit you are mentioning was a FAMILIAR (ally spirit of an initiate)
> As such it had an actual physical form and the knowledge of it creator.
> It didn't just manifest in the physical plane - it had a true - not alterable
> physical form.

I don't see how this explains why the spirit could do it and the mage
couldn't.

Incidentally, in our local house rules, mages can't even talk to
each other properly on the astral plane. Communication is more
by charade and emotion; you can't say `Go up to the twelfth
floor, slip into the third bedroom on the right in the room at the
end of the corridor, wait fifteen seconds, then ...'

This makes more sense to us, as well as limiting mages a little.

luke>(I gather there was also lots of spellcasting on the astral plane :-( )

> Yes, there was spellcasting in astral - but when he took drain - it was
> physical - just like the rules say.

Well, there goes the neighbourhood! :-)

This means you use a team of two mages, one astral, one physical, with the
projecting mage's body. The astral mage casts killer spells, suffers
physical drain, the other mage sees it, and heals it up within, what,
20 seconds?

It wouldn't matter so much, if spells were to work like critters on
the astral plane until they grounded out to the physical plane,


luke>Does anyone else think that most buildings in Seattle would be
luke>absolutely overgrown in ivy? Changes your mental picture of the
luke>futuristic city, eh?

> Ivy would NOT grow. You need something for it to feed on. [...]

Yes, I know. But the necessary building modifications are cheap
compared to lots of other forms of astral security. And suitable
as-is for lots of existing buildings.

I was just trying to suggest that FASA don't seem to have thought
through all the implications that their own magic system would have
on their own game world.

luke
Message no. 6
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 20:36:57 +1100
luke writes:

> Especially if you allow a shaman to summon hearth spirits while astral.
> (This _isn't_ allowed, is it? Somebody reassure me.)

As far as I can tell (after consulting SR II and the Grimything II) there is
nothing to stop you summoning a nature spirit from the astral. Then again,
there is also nothing that says you can, like, for eg, for spells it
mentions you take physical drain when casting from the astral, but there is
no such mention concerning spirits. Astral space is the native habitat of
astral entities such as nature spirits though, so I couldn't see what would
be stopping you.

> luke>I gather that the mage in Burning Bright also used a materialised
> luke>spirit to read street signs. Since (standard FASA) mages can _also_
> luke>materialise, I wonder what's different about spirits materialising.
>
> > The spirit you are mentioning was a FAMILIAR (ally spirit of an initiate)
> > As such it had an actual physical form and the knowledge of it creator.
> > It didn't just manifest in the physical plane - it had a true - not alterable
> > physical form.
>
> I don't see how this explains why the spirit could do it and the mage
> couldn't.

Easy, sinse it had a physical form, it was dual natured. Same as an astrally
perceiving mage. So it could read the street signs or whatever. When a mage
"manifests" it is not the same as a manifesting spirit, they mage is still
in astral space, only he can be seen by those on the physical, but not
touched or affected (like shot :-)), hence he is not really dual natured and
so can't read street signs.

> Incidentally, in our local house rules, mages can't even talk to
> each other properly on the astral plane. Communication is more
> by charade and emotion; you can't say `Go up to the twelfth
> floor, slip into the third bedroom on the right in the room at the
> end of the corridor, wait fifteen seconds, then ...'

Well, while I'm not sure what the rules have to say on this, in one of the
trilogies, Sam talks to all those elves from the astral, you remember, when
he goes to visit them and hijacks the watcher to make his presence known?
They have a big conference right there outside the ward in astral space.

> This means you use a team of two mages, one astral, one physical, with the
> projecting mage's body. The astral mage casts killer spells, suffers
> physical drain, the other mage sees it, and heals it up within, what,
> 20 seconds?

Meanwhile about 6 turns have gone by. Most combats are lucky to last that
long. I can't see it making very much difference at all.

> It wouldn't matter so much, if spells were to work like critters on
> the astral plane until they grounded out to the physical plane,

I thought that they did?

> I was just trying to suggest that FASA don't seem to have thought
> through all the implications that their own magic system would have
> on their own game world.

That's for sure, as you so often point out for us :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 7
From: Buddha <CCOLLINS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Information-gathering character
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 14:52:04 EST
I have a friend that would like to subscribe to Shadowrun. But I forgot
how to subscribe. Could you send me the info on how to do it or send
the info to WBYERS@*****.vinu.edu The info would be greatly
appreciated. and if you ever need anything don't hessitate in asking
me. -The Buddha-

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