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From:	"J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:21:18 -0400

Message no. 1 In a message dated 97-09-30 15:37:03 EDT, irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU writes:

>
> This is going to happen to ol' Cheetah the Saturday after next, *Rowr!*
> (Thanks to the guy with the Berret and an over-reactive trigger finger on
a
> satchel of C4, DOH!)
>
Actually, better go thank that Rigger/Burned Out Wench first. The trigger
happy biff (and THAT is exactly what Prophet views her as) only compounded
the matter.

Okay folks, to make this more open topicked....Cheetah and Prophet (as well
as a few other (some less sophisticated than others) specialists) have
entered the Renraku Archology via the Water Deployment system for the Tower.
That same method of exiting the building has been removed as a way out. Now
I did tell Jason (the GM) that I (Prophet) was looking through files in the
Fuchi IntSec division for ideas of accessability (hey, decker's understand
access better than most). Anyone out there have experience?

-Keith

From:	"Rick J. Irvine" <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:13:19 -0500

Message no. 2 At 12:21 AM 10/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-30 15:37:03 EDT, irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU writes:
>
>>
>> This is going to happen to ol' Cheetah the Saturday after next, *Rowr!*
>> (Thanks to the guy with the Berret and an over-reactive trigger finger on
>a
>> satchel of C4, DOH!)
>>
>Actually, better go thank that Rigger/Burned Out Wench first. The trigger
>happy biff (and THAT is exactly what Prophet views her as) only compounded
>the matter.

>Okay folks, to make this more open topicked....Cheetah and Prophet (as well
>as a few other (some less sophisticated than others) specialists) have
>entered the Renraku Archology via the Water Deployment system for the Tower.
> That same method of exiting the building has been removed as a way out. Now
>I did tell Jason (the GM) that I (Prophet) was looking through files in the
>Fuchi IntSec division for ideas of accessability (hey, decker's understand
>access better than most). Anyone out there have experience?

>
>-Keith (Prophet)

To give you a true understanding of the Wench's actions (this is not the
gun-toting one, this is the 'she really shouldn't be a shadowrunner' one),
we just had climbed out of the water system (*rowr* Cheetah HATES water!)
and were making our way down to the target floor via the stairway. This
headcase rigger decides she's bored, and being in corp secretary dress,
thinks she can get away with anything. So what does she do? Right after
all the serious gun-toting folks go down the stairs (myself and the other
physad in the lead with ghost cloaks), she presses the button on the
-elevator-. This is before Prophet had a chance to nail down all of the
slave nodes, if I remember correct. Her excuse: I was bored, and didn't
care if I died. (I swear next week it's going to be a contest to see who
shoots her first. I got my money on me. *grin*)

The four players who were sitting in the corner (the other physad, the
SERIOUSLY cybered-out sammie, Prophet, and myself) all rolled eyes and
groaned at the -same- time. :) It was a bonding moment.

Anyone else have stories of goofball mistakes like these on critical runs?
I think hearing about these stories is a great thing, and can be educational
for a few people ("Oh, I'll remember never to try that...").

Cheers,
Cheetah

From:	"J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:03:22 -0400

Message no. 3 In a message dated 97-10-03 04:42:00 EDT, irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU (Rick J.
Irvine) writes:

> >Anyone out there have experience?
> >-Keith (Prophet)

<snipped some intro lines for easier read>

> headcase rigger decides she's bored, and being in corp secretary dress,
> thinks she can get away with anything. So what does she do? Right after
> all the serious gun-toting folks go down the stairs (myself and the other
> physad in the lead with ghost cloaks), she presses the button on the
> -elevator-. This is before Prophet had a chance to nail down all of the
> slave nodes, if I remember correct. Her excuse: I was bored, and didn't
> care if I died. (I swear next week it's going to be a contest to see who
> shoots her first. I got my money on me. *grin*)

Her boredom is going to get her killed by something else, of course, she's
the GM's wife and those stories are scarey enough...oh and Rick, if you read
this, I warn you. Though I normally condone killing another PC by a PC, I
doubt you'll succeed. Or worse, if you do, you'll immediately be labeled as
a "Matt Thompson".

> The four players who were sitting in the corner (the other physad, the
> SERIOUSLY cybered-out sammie, Prophet, and myself) all rolled eyes and
> groaned at the -same- time. :) It was a bonding moment.

(Prophet-In Character) "ooooo-gross, kitty spew and sammie slobber....guys,
back of a bit....Archie, just how did you get so fast 'drawing that sword'
anyway?" ;0

-Keith

From:	"Rick J. Irvine" <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:29:22 -0500

Message no. 4 At 11:03 AM 10/3/97 -0400, Keither (Prophet) wrote:
>In a message dated 97-10-03 04:42:00 EDT, irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU (Rick J.
>Irvine) writes:
>Her boredom is going to get her killed by something else, of course, she's
>the GM's wife and those stories are scarey enough...oh and Rick, if you read
>this, I warn you. Though I normally condone killing another PC by a PC, I
>doubt you'll succeed. Or worse, if you do, you'll immediately be labeled as
>a "Matt Thompson".

I've heard this before. I've also stopped counting the number of times
the sammie and other physad's -players- have looked her in the eye and glared,
fighting the urge to just waste her there. One of these times one of these
guys (be it me or them) is going to cack her. The GM knows it, we've all
said it many many times, we've all discussed it in front of him, to him,
etc. There comes a point where one player can drag a game down so far that
it is just better to simply not go that route with your time than sit there
watching this person ruin the game. Jason (the GM and said player's husband)
knows this, and I honestly believe he respects it.

Here's my logic on this. Getting those 11 players in that tiny little
apartment to all shut up and actually move the game along is VERY hard.
It is hard on the GM and frankly hard on the players, they all have to
shut up and not whip out humorous lines they think of, etc. Any minor
distraction messes up the flow of the game for everyone, so real discipline
is called for. If one player repeatedly, over and over again, nearly ruins
the run for all of those 11 people, then has the gall to sit there in front
of the GM and plaeyrs and say 'I didn't care if I got caught, I was bored',
that is both disrespectful to the GM and all of those players alike. I
won't tolorate very many sessions like this before I just start putting
rounds into her head. If this gets my character killed, so be it. Both
are solutions to the problem of me spending my time on something that has
now become unacceptable.

Jason knows this and respects it. If the problem really ever gets to the
point where we're spending game time shooting at each other, we'll probably
either wipe out 90% of the characters with some Middle Finger Of God (Smirk)
disaster, or we'll just wipe everybody out. Again, for me, both are ok
solutions to the problem of all of us working very hard to keep such a large
game going and having one person repeatedly screw it up.

Cheers,
Rick

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:43:00 -0600

Message no. 5 Rick J. Irvine wrote:
|
| I've heard this before. I've also stopped counting the number of times
| the sammie and other physad's -players- have looked her in the eye and glared,
| fighting the urge to just waste her there. One of these times one of these
| guys (be it me or them) is going to cack her. The GM knows it, we've all
| said it many many times, we've all discussed it in front of him, to him,
| etc. There comes a point where one player can drag a game down so far that
| it is just better to simply not go that route with your time than sit there
| watching this person ruin the game. Jason (the GM and said player's husband)
| knows this, and I honestly believe he respects it.
|
| Here's my logic on this. Getting those 11 players in that tiny little
| apartment to all shut up and actually move the game along is VERY hard.
| It is hard on the GM and frankly hard on the players, they all have to
| shut up and not whip out humorous lines they think of, etc. Any minor
| distraction messes up the flow of the game for everyone, so real discipline
| is called for. If one player repeatedly, over and over again, nearly ruins
| the run for all of those 11 people, then has the gall to sit there in front
| of the GM and plaeyrs and say 'I didn't care if I got caught, I was bored',
| that is both disrespectful to the GM and all of those players alike. I
| won't tolorate very many sessions like this before I just start putting
| rounds into her head. If this gets my character killed, so be it. Both
| are solutions to the problem of me spending my time on something that has
| now become unacceptable.

I'm confused. The her character putting the other character's lives in
jeapordy? Or is she, the RL person, screwing up the game?

If it's the character that's causing the problem then by all means have
your character tell her character to take a hike or you'll cack her.

If it's the player that's causing the problem then try talking to her
and explaining your feelings (you did a wonderful job with the post
you sent). If she continues to screw up the game then you've got a
munchkin and you should get rid of her or find another group to play
with. BTW, I've been faced with a munchkin married to a good friend
and roleplayer. She (the friend) decided that she didn't want to
play if her husband couldn't play. I still miss Cathy, but I don't
miss her husband one bit.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

From:	"Rick J. Irvine" <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:25:36 -0500

Message no. 6 At 09:43 AM 10/3/97 -0600, David wrote:
>Rick J. Irvine wrote:
>I'm confused. The her character putting the other character's lives in
>jeapordy? Or is she, the RL person, screwing up the game?

Well, kind of both. She makes rather poor decisions. I admit, some of us
from the Renraku run forgot that we were supposed to steal the data first,
before blowing it all up. Oops. :) This happened mostly because as a
team we didn't review the objectives we set up the weekend before. However...

The player (GM's wife) very often makes very poor decisions without thinking
about the consequences of her actions. We introduced a new character to the
group, and in the process, he shapechanged into a bird and flew into Miki's
garage. (Miki = GM's wife's character name) This garage is in the Redmond
Barrens, and Miki repeatedly drives a heavily modified -top of the line-
limosoine through the barrens, completely not expecting any trouble at all.
Anyways, Miki, upon seeing this bird land in the rafters above her car,
thinks this bird is going to poop on her hood (I'm not joking), so she
pulls out a BERRET SNIPER RIFLE, and promptply begins firing. Her character
doesn't know this is a new character, but she durned well knows it's a new
player. Well, as can be expected, the bird/char finally fails a dodge,
and splat. 200 pounds of hamburgerized newbie falls 50 feet to the ground,
whereup the sammie goes, 'I got it! I got it!'. He got it alright, big
nasty serious wound that caused him to go into flashbacks... :) I dove
for the falling pile 'o newbie-meat as well, and bonking into the sammie
(sammie weighs like 500+ pounds, I weigh maybe 150. *bonk*), and seeing
all the carnage, *I* went into flashbacks. Then Miki drops the smoking
rifle, and upon seeing the carnage, also goes into flashbacks. Poor
Prophet is trying to edge towards the door to get out of the place,
thinking we're all nuts. (Which we are *Grin*)

Basically, the whole night was wasted on her one decision which snowballed
into a big sloppy time-wasting mess. :) It was semi-fun and a good laugh,
but the problem is, EVERY session can very easily go this way, and it
gets old.

>If it's the character that's causing the problem then by all means have
>your character tell her character to take a hike or you'll cack her.

We've talked about this several times, in front of the GM. :) I think each
time, we get a little less jokingly about it, and I'm sure the GM senses that.

>If it's the player that's causing the problem then try talking to her
>and explaining your feelings (you did a wonderful job with the post
>you sent). If she continues to screw up the game then you've got a
>munchkin and you should get rid of her or find another group to play
>with.

*Smile* What timing, I'm starting with a different group very soon now. :)
Jason (The GM from Cheetah's game) has a player in it. I like Jason, he
and I get along just great, it's the wife we all want to rip our hair out
about. So it's basically a win-win situation, so long as I can convince
Keith that this idea of decking into another person's cyberdeck is just
wrong. *Grin* (I'm going to be playing an Otaku, something I've never
tried before.)

> BTW, I've been faced with a munchkin married to a good friend
>and roleplayer. She (the friend) decided that she didn't want to
>play if her husband couldn't play. I still miss Cathy, but I don't
>miss her husband one bit.

I won't go into more seedy details, but I'm the same way. I click with the
husband just great, I really look forward to playing with the sammie, the
other phyad, and Jason in Keith's game. (They don't use the same chars,
I'm just caling them by the labels we've seen here). The four of us are
going to hit it off very well in that game, I think. And some of that
has to come from the fact that the former GM isn't burdened by his wife
wanting to blow the drek out of everything. :)

Cheers,
Rick

From:	AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Information Requested from the Shadows (was:Re: list opinion
Date:	Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:24:24 EST

Message no. 7 In a message dated 97-10-02 00:22:13 EDT, you write:

> Okay folks, to make this more open topicked....Cheetah and Prophet (as well
> as a few other (some less sophisticated than others) specialists) have
> entered the Renraku Archology via the Water Deployment system for the
Tower.
> That same method of exiting the building has been removed as a way out.
> Now
> I did tell Jason (the GM) that I (Prophet) was looking through files in the
> Fuchi IntSec division for ideas of accessability (hey, decker's understand
> access better than most). Anyone out there have experience?

How about jumping out of the building without a parachute ?

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