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Message no. 1
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:54:18 +0200
Hail Runners,

Again I move through dangerous grounds, first of all I want to appologize
for starting off the "PhysAd vs Streetsam", nowhere in the faq
(http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3) was there any mention of
off-limit topics.

Second of all, I would like to know if anyone knew how to handle insanity
through essence loss well,...I'm currently into my fifth week of GM a game
where everybody is new to it, and I've got some idiot who went beserk when
he saw the capabilities of cyberware. Of course he plays a sam, of course he
has more nuyen than he can wave a stick at,...so he ended up with an essence
of .01 or something like that.

Normally this player has an excellent track record when it comes to
roleplaying, and he has been doing it rather well so far. Psychotic attacks,
etc. However, I still have the feeling he's getting away too easily, and I
was wondering if there are any rules, any houserules that handles with
over-abundant essence loss?

If I breached some unwritten law about off-limit topics again, please
disregard this post.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 2
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:50:14 -0500
Dennis Steinmeijer wrote:
/Hail Runners,
/
/Again I move through dangerous grounds, first of all I want to appologize
/for starting off the "PhysAd vs Streetsam", nowhere in the faq
/(http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3) was there any mention of
/off-limit topics.
/
/Second of all, I would like to know if anyone knew how to handle insanity
/through essence loss well,...I'm currently into my fifth week of GM a game
/where everybody is new to it, and I've got some idiot who went beserk when
/he saw the capabilities of cyberware. Of course he plays a sam, of course he
/has more nuyen than he can wave a stick at,...so he ended up with an essence
/of .01 or something like that.
/
/Normally this player has an excellent track record when it comes to
/roleplaying, and he has been doing it rather well so far. Psychotic attacks,
/etc. However, I still have the feeling he's getting away too easily, and I
/was wondering if there are any rules, any houserules that handles with
/over-abundant essence loss?
/
/If I breached some unwritten law about off-limit topics again, please
/disregard this post.

Well, you sorta did :)

Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking of
CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your
question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of CP2020.

-Graht
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3
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D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
"My assistant, Bob the dinasaur, will now demonstrate
how to give a cat a 'fur wedgie.'"
Message no. 3
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:01:35 +0200
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> Well, you sorta did :)

Whoa, essence loss is an off-limit topic?

> Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking of
> CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your
> question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of CP2020.

So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of cyberware? I would
want to incorporate something like that, are there any houserules someone wants to share?

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."

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<DIV><FONT size=2>&gt; Well, you sorta did
:)<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Whoa, essence loss is an off-limit
topic?</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2><BR>&gt; Essence loss in Shadowrun does not
cause
psychosis.&nbsp; You may be thinking of<BR>&gt; CP2020 which has rules for
cyberpsychosis.&nbsp; So, I guess to answer your<BR>&gt; question, if your
looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of CP2020.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to
lots'n'lots of cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are
there any houserules someone wants to share?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dennis</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=2>"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how
awful Goodness
is..."</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message no. 4
From: Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:01:35 +0200, Dennis Steinmeijer wrote:

>> Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking of
>> CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your
>> question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of CP2020.
>
>So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of cyberware? I
would
want to incorporate something like that, are there any houserules someone wants to
share?

According to the rules, it makes them VERY hard to heal magically.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."

ICQ: 38158540
Message no. 5
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:23:18 -0700
>
>So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of
>cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are there any
>houserules someone wants to share?

SR3 addresses this in passing mentioning the loss of emotion and
empathy. It's only a line, and i don;t remember the exact words. Looks
like the hint at it.

--lomion
Message no. 6
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:15:34 +0100
In article <000e01bebe8d$266d0e20$82fd72c3@********.nl>, Dennis
Steinmeijer <dv8@********.nl> writes
>So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of cyberware?

Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.

Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.


Then there's the various social problems, like yanking your sidearm every
time someone opens a bottle of champagne or slams a door... or the way
people sidle away from you when they notice your arms are mechanical...
and cyberware stops being "free".

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 7
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 99 16:01:17 +700
>Second of all, I would like to know if anyone knew how to handle insanity
>through essence loss well,...I'm currently into my fifth week of GM a game

>where everybody is new to it, and I've got some idiot who went beserk when

>he saw the capabilities of cyberware. Of course he plays a sam, of course he

>has more nuyen than he can wave a stick at,...so he ended up with an essence

>of .01 or something like that.
>
>Normally this player has an excellent track record when it comes to
>roleplaying, and he has been doing it rather well so far. Psychotic attacks,

>etc. However, I still have the feeling he's getting away too easily, and I

>was wondering if there are any rules, any houserules that handles with
>over-abundant essence loss?

I certainly hope this isn't an off limit topic. Cause it's an issue I may be
facing soon as well. One of my players went down to 1 essense on his cyberware.


My opinion would be to start pulling 'Borg' impulses on him. Describe reality
to him the way you think '7 of 9' saw it in the first few hours after she was
severed from the collective.
Or if you know the reference 'Marvin the Robot' (or something like that, I only
recall it from a song I used to hear on Dr. Demento). Basically give him a sad,
morose, slow, depressed reality where he feels all alone and isolated. Like
a 5 year old child in a small dark closet in a huge empty mansion with no people
around for a 'hundred miles'. He's lost touch with being human. He's tetering
on the edge and knows he's lost, but can't find the light.

Combine all these effects together and you get what I think would happen to
someone who became too much machine. And it's definately no fun to play for
the 'munchkin' players. Though certain drama players will thrive in it; which
is probably the very best sort of players to be handing a machine of that much
power anyway.

The last thing you want to do to a character at <1 essense is let them become
a careless combat machine. That just makes it all too appealing to the munchkinizers.
All that power and a whole pile of excuses to go hog-wild with it.
Message no. 8
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:25:48 +0100
In article <3772b8bd.b5f.0@***.net>, arcady@***.net writes
>The last thing you want to do to a character at <1 essense is let them become
>a careless combat machine. That just makes it all too appealing to the
>munchkinizers.
>All that power and a whole pile of excuses to go hog-wild with it.

No, no, NO! :)

Encourage this tendency. They are the hardest, toughest, meanest beings
alive. Nothing can stop them. They are invincible. A GM can have indecent
amounts of fun with such a character.


Once they're into full-on Combat God mode, have a police APC arrive.
Surely they're not going to run away from a glorified _car_?

Allow the SWAT APC to explain the error of their thinking. (Use something
like a LAV-25 - six assault troopers in the back, armoured to bounce
anything man-portable short of antitank missiles, armed with a 25mm
Bushmaster cannon and a 7.62mm chaingun, with red phosphorous
grenade launchers for close-up entertainment - let's see your manic
wireboy headbutt his way into _that_!)

Meanwhile, everyone who was seen with Chrome Boy is going to get
disdainful brushoffs from fixers for a while. "No, I wanted
_Shadow_runners. You know. People who can do a job _without_ levelling
entire city blocks and getting four full SWAT teams called in on their sorry
butts. Come back when you've learned to work quiet."


Use Chrome Boy on the "expendable" missions, and have the team brought
along as accessories - hey, they'll soak up bullets... Make it plain when you
hire, that it's Chrome Boy the fixer wants. The "nice, easy" job turns out
to be a massive bullet-festival: the security were tipped off and waiting in
force. (The _real_ job went down elsewhere with not a shot fired...)

See who survives the ambush. Make it plain by the end of the job that the
team in general and Chrome Boy in particular were expendable decoys,
that Johnson is surprised and annoyed that there were survivors, and that
he considers them to be lucky but clueless wilsons worthy only to spring
ambushes and draw fire for more competent teams.


And so on, and so forth. Raw firepower has its place, but isn't usually a
very good approach.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 9
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
> > Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be
thinking of CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to
answer your question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a
copy of CP2020.
>
> So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of
cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are there
any houserules someone wants to share?
> Dennis

Yes and no. There ARE certain items of cyberware (I think Move-by-Wire
systems are the only ones atm) that cause various brain diseases. Also
there are some good rules for social penalties caused by excessive
cyberware. However, these are not in the SR3 rules at this time.

On the other hand, they have not yet been contradicted anywhere, so if
you have them, they still stand (look in the "Cybertechnology"
sourcebook).

Expect to see updated (or reprinted) versions of these rules in "Man
and Machine" (that's a calculated guess, not an insider tip, if you
hadn't figured it out).

*Doc' wonders if the Mr. Studmuffin(TM) CyberPenis implanted in his
forehead is what's causing his contacts to look at him funny...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:11:07 +1000
lomion writes:
> SR3 addresses this in passing mentioning the loss of emotion and
> empathy. It's only a line, and i don;t remember the exact words. Looks
> like the hint at it.

In Cybertechnology, the short story depicts a person who becomes more
detatched from the world due to cyberware. Not because of the loss of
Essence, though... simply because he was viewing the world through
cybereyes, and didn't feel as though he was so connected to it.

So, if you really want cyberpsychosis or similar syndromes, it's not like
you need a large amount of essence loss for it.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 11
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:26:22 EDT
In a message dated 6/24/1999 3:59:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dv8@********.nl writes:

> Second of all, I would like to know if anyone knew how to handle insanity
> through essence loss well,...I'm currently into my fifth week of GM a game
> where everybody is new to it, and I've got some idiot who went beserk when
> he saw the capabilities of cyberware. Of course he plays a sam, of course
he
> has more nuyen than he can wave a stick at,...so he ended up with an
essence
> of .01 or something like that.
>
> Normally this player has an excellent track record when it comes to
> roleplaying, and he has been doing it rather well so far. Psychotic
attacks,
> etc. However, I still have the feeling he's getting away too easily, and I
> was wondering if there are any rules, any houserules that handles with
> over-abundant essence loss?

I'm just going to address this topic. VERY recently (last night and
tonight), I have finally come up with an idea that has some very solid basis
for "Cyberpsychosis" within the boundaries of the game mechanics.

I'm not doing writing everything up yet, but a vague idea of where I'm
starting can be found at....

http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/msc/glossary.htm

under "Psyche Rating"

-K
Message no. 12
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:32:28 EDT
In a message dated 6/24/1999 5:06:02 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dv8@********.nl writes:

> > Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking
> of
> > CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your
> > question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of
CP2020.
>
> So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of
> cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are there any
> houserules someone wants to share?
>
> Dennis

Officially, it doesn't cause any damage or problems. In some game manuals,
for SR even, indications of such problems do exist. In most circumstances,
the character in questions simply dies (if they go below zero "0" essence
that is). There are other places (Shadowtech and Cybertechnologies for
instance) where the reader might get an indication of other, potential,
problems for low essence however.

Overall, it's a role-play thing right now.

-K
Message no. 13
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:37:36 +1000
> Yes and no. There ARE certain items of cyberware (I think Move-by-Wire
> systems are the only ones atm) that cause various brain diseases. Also
> there are some good rules for social penalties caused by excessive
> cyberware. However, these are not in the SR3 rules at this time.

yep they are... check out chapter "running the shadows" i think. its in
there.


> *Doc' wonders if the Mr. Studmuffin(TM) CyberPenis implanted in his
> forehead is what's causing his contacts to look at him funny...*

no its that the head on the thing is where you keep your brain. :)

GreyWolf

* Some people would appreciate it being called a cyber-attachment.
Especially when they are looking over my shoulder *
Message no. 14
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:37:32 -0700
> In article <3772b8bd.b5f.0@***.net>, arcady@***.net writes
> >The last thing you want to do to a character at <1 essense is
> let them become
> >a careless combat machine. That just makes it all too appealing to the
> >munchkinizers.
> >All that power and a whole pile of excuses to go hog-wild with it.
>
> No, no, NO! :)
>
> Encourage this tendency. They are the hardest, toughest, meanest beings
> alive. Nothing can stop them. They are invincible. A GM can have indecent
> amounts of fun with such a character.
>
> Once they're into full-on Combat God mode, have a police APC arrive.

> grenade launchers for close-up entertainment - let's see your manic
> wireboy headbutt his way into _that_!)

> butts. Come back when you've learned to work quiet."
>
> And so on, and so forth. Raw firepower has its place, but isn't usually a
> very good approach.

The only problem with this approach is that it gives the combat munchy
exactly what they want: Pure Action, no drama. It will only encourage them
to come back with an even tougher borg the next time. After all if this one
was 'so weak' that a nuke could take it out... well they must've missed some
goodie from some book somewhere. The next one will get it right for sure. :)

And then you simply end up with a game of pure escalation.

I got stuck GMing that in Champions for a few years... That's a routine I
definitely don't want to repeat. :)
Message no. 15
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:48:20 +1000
> The only problem with this approach is that it gives the combat munchy
> exactly what they want: Pure Action, no drama. It will only encourage them
> to come back with an even tougher borg the next time. After all if this one
> was 'so weak' that a nuke could take it out... well they must've missed some
> goodie from some book somewhere. The next one will get it right for sure. :)
>
> And then you simply end up with a game of pure escalation.
>
> I got stuck GMing that in Champions for a few years... That's a routine I
> definitely don't want to repeat. :)

Champions definately does tend to imply this kind of character and gameform. The
better games of champions Ive had however, were games which characters were not
built to rule the world, but rather where they were built more often than not,
for non combat ability as combat. rounded hero's in effect.

the odd char who was a brick outhouse did come through and go away jjust as
fast, but not because we killed it or it got killed. rather that they were too
inflexible and did not allow for any roleplaying (rather they were for
roll-playing).

GreyWolf
Message no. 16
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:52:52 +1000
> Champions definately does tend to imply this kind of character and gameform. The
> better games of champions Ive had however, were games which characters were not
> built to rule the world, but rather where they were built more often than not,
> for non combat ability as combat. rounded hero's in effect.
>
> the odd char who was a brick outhouse did come through and go away jjust as
> fast, but not because we killed it or it got killed. rather that they were too
> inflexible and did not allow for any roleplaying (rather they were for
> roll-playing).
>
> GreyWolf

Whoops! That was Off Topic - but it does apply to Shadowrun characters as well. all
combat and no thought makes the street sams very dull boys (and girls - so not to be
sexist). :)

GreyWolf
Message no. 17
From: Carsten Gehling alvion@****.uni2.dk
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:50:07 +0200
Do you self a favor and buy "Cybertechnology". It contains a story from
Hatcetman - a guy who describes how he got his first cyberware, and how it
affected him. It also clarifies a lot of cyberware rules IMHO especially
about cyberware damage ("Man, I'm leaking... I can't see a thing!" "Don't
worry, it's just a cable problem...")

And lastly it describes Cybermancy...

Did you think 0.01 essence is low? Think again. Try below zero. Or at least
read about what happens and MAYBE apply some of those effects to your 0.01
essence player.
Somebody might say it's against the rules - but you're the GM, you decide
what's right and wrong in your game.

Lastly, "Street Samurai" also gives some good ideas about "Cheap
cyberware"
and their side-effects.

IMHO there are too few side-effects to cyberware in Shadowrun. The novels
describe some, but nothing is really in the rules.

I suppose that's my 2 nuyen worth of ideas.

No, wait! I want to tell you about "Flash"!

Flash is a Physical Adept who got installed some bioware. Now I won't go
into details about his background, it isn't important. BUT I bent some
rules... When the player created the character, I wasn't aware that a
magician had to pay Essence as well as Body points for bioware. So I let him
do it, with the restraint that he payed HALF essence as per body point cost.

He's the _fastest_ combat-motherfragger I've ever seen (max initiative
around 60). And he has enjoyed it, and so have the others. Until now. As an
experiment of the Yakuza, he has only one clinic to go to, when he is hurt
(or at least so he is told...). Right now we're in the middle of a Mob War,
and his Gumi has been wiped out by another, who would kill him on sight. So
the clinic is gone, and now he's begun to cough up some green slime stuff,
and get a headache every time he's been into "fast mode". He has also got
permanent fever (39.8 degrees celcius)

Everybody in my group knows, that nothing comes for free, so the guy is
beginning to panic... <EGMG>

- Carsten

()xxxxxxxx(============================================>
"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge."

GC 3.1: GCS d- s+: a- C+++$>++++ UL+ P+>++ L+ E-- W+++$ N+ K- w+++$ O- M--
V- PGP- t++@ 5+@ X++ R++ tv+(+++) b+(++) DI++ D++ G e++ h--() r+++ y+++
Message no. 18
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:34:21 +0200
According to Dennis Steinmeijer, at 22:54 on 24 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> Second of all, I would like to know if anyone knew how to handle insanity
> through essence loss well,...I'm currently into my fifth week of GM a game
> where everybody is new to it, and I've got some idiot who went beserk when
> he saw the capabilities of cyberware. Of course he plays a sam, of course he
> has more nuyen than he can wave a stick at,...so he ended up with an essence
> of .01 or something like that.

So? Make him see the disadvantages of having so much cyberware -- mainly,
that hardly any magician will be able to reliably heal him. A TN in the
order of 10 for Heal or Treat spells does make it difficult to roll
successes regardless of the number of dice you're throwing.

Also use the rules for cyberware and social interaction (SR3 page 93) --
the character probaly won't be liked by many people.

If you have the Street Samurai Catalog or Shadowtech, read the rules for
cyberware damage and use them. (In short: every time the character takes a
Serious or a Deadly physical wound in one blow, roll a D6. Subtract 2 for
a Deadly and 4 for a Serious wound; if positive, the result is the number
of cyberware systems damaged.)

Cybertechnology also has some good rules to use for characters with wired
reflexes or similar systems, which make them do things without thinking in
situations that appear to be threatening (like punching the waiter who
walks behind your chair in a restaurant...).

> Normally this player has an excellent track record when it comes to
> roleplaying, and he has been doing it rather well so far. Psychotic attacks,
> etc. However, I still have the feeling he's getting away too easily, and I
> was wondering if there are any rules, any houserules that handles with
> over-abundant essence loss?

I wuldn't go for cyberpsychosis, unless you _really_ like the rules for
that in games like Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberspace. But even in CP2020,
which introduced the idea, it was added as a quick fix shortly before the
game's release, and only because some playtesters had gone completely
overboard with the cyberware in some of their characters.

> If I breached some unwritten law about off-limit topics again, please
> disregard this post.

<GridSec>
This one is okay :) The topics you can best stay away from are the one you
already found out, as well as stuff about RL religious and cultural
differences, RL magic, and similar subjects.
</GridSec>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: gordmeister@*********.org gordmeister@*********.org
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:29:19 +0100
> *Doc' wonders if the Mr. Studmuffin(TM) CyberPenis implanted in his
> forehead is what's causing his contacts to look at him funny...*

LOL! Well, that's just the sort of image I need first thing in the
morning :)

Hmmm, off to think up what the cybersex industry is like in the 2060's...

(Or was that already covered in Shadowbeat?)

gordmeister
Message no. 20
From: Damian Sharp zadoc@***.neu.edu
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:48:22 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Paul J. Adam wrote:

> Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
>
> Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.

Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the

Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or Treat
Definately in the near impossible zone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
When someone asks you, "A penny for your thoughts,"
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Message no. 21
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:01:47 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Dennis Steinmeijer wrote:

> > Well, you sorta did :)
>
> Whoa, essence loss is an off-limit topic?

It's another one of those things where hard-core cyberpunk
followers say "yes, it does" and hard-core rules lawyers say "no, it
doesn't." Then people on both sides of the issue say "prove it,
smarty-pants" and things degenerate from there. Trust me, I've seen it
happen, and while the overall caliber of the folks on this list is high
enough now that we probably don't have to worry about it, GridSec is a
little gun-shy about these issues.

> So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of
> cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are there
> any houserules someone wants to share?

Well, while my esteemed GridSec colleague Graht gives you the
awful truth, let me temper it by saying that there are rules in Shadowrun
that reflect the ramifications of severe Essence loss. The "Cyberware and
Social Interaction" section in "Cybertechnology" is all about this. IIRC,
it imposes a +1 modifier to the target numbers of all social skills for
every 2 points of Essence (or portion thereof) you've lost. So having an
Essence of 0.01 means that you have a +3 target number modifier to the use
of any social skill. Yes, that covers negotiations. And "fast talk".
And most importantly, the use of Street Etiquette, which you use to get
information from contacts and new gear (hey, your armorer is twitchy about
telling you that he's go a radical new gun - he thinks that anybody crazy
enough to replace most of his body with cyberware is probably inhuman
enough to take the gun on a wild killing spree, and he just doesn't want
that on his conscience). If you impose even this single rule
consistently, cyberware will have some rather serious negative
ramifications.
As for house rules, I have a house rule concerning Essence loss
and pseudo-cyberpsychosis. It's not a hard-and-fasty rules mod, but more
of a guideline to roleplaying. If you're interested, I can send it your
way.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
Mark Imbriaco <mark@*********.html.com> List Owner
Adam Jury <adamj@*********.html.com> Assistant List Administrator
DVixen <dvixen@****.com> Keeper of the FAQs
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> GridSec Enforcer Division
David Buehrer <graht@********.att.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 22
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:27:26 -0400
Damian Sharp wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>
> > Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
> >
> > Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> > Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.
>
> Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the
>
> Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or Treat
> Definately in the near impossible zone.

<SNIP>
But really, how often does a person with that much cyber and bio get
anything more than a moderate wound? OK, so I've seen a guy get 10 Boxes of
Overdamage AND STILL NOT DIE but I'm not bitter...
--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-
Message no. 23
From: Felix Horbach horbach@*****.uni-mannheim.de
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:26:08 +0200
> Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking of
> CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your

> question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of CP2020.

So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of cyberware? I would
want to incorporate something like that, are there any houserules someone wants to share?

SR3 addresses this in passing mentioning the loss of emotion and
empathy. It's only a line, and i don;t remember the exact words. Looks

like the hint at it.

Once again slipping in wiseass mode:
"The more cyberware a charcter has installed, the more inhuman they
become. Overly-cybered characters tend to become a bit detached, and the
empathy between them and other metahumans suffers for it." SRIII, 45
A possibility to reflect this is mentioned at p.93 SRIII by imposing
negative modifiers for charisma-based social interaction.
Wiseass mode off....

If you consider this too weak, you could convert ianus games cyberpunk
supplement "dark metropolis" (lots of fun stuff to throw at your
runners. Since it is no longer produced and hard to get (at least where
I live), I could mail you the most interesting parts along with my ideas
about conversion. If you´re interested just drop me a private mail.
Greetings,
Watcher spirit
Message no. 24
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:11:33 -0500
> > Well, you sorta did :)
>
> Whoa, essence loss is an off-limit topic?
>
> > Essence loss in Shadowrun does not cause psychosis. You may be thinking
> of
> > CP2020 which has rules for cyberpsychosis. So, I guess to answer your
> > question, if your looking for cyberpsychosis rules, grab a copy of
> CP2020.
>
> So there is no penalty for low essence? No bad side to lots'n'lots of
> cyberware? I would want to incorporate something like that, are there any
> houserules someone wants to share?
>
>
Yes. I have worked up some house rules for this type of thing (for my ganger
campaign - their lives already suck, why not make them suck more?).
Unfortunately, they are not typed up yet. If anyone's interested, e-mail me
personally and, when I get them typed up (next week sometime) I will send
them to ya'. Please reply to me and not the list (I will ignore any requests
to the list).
Message no. 25
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:01:25 +0200
According to Damian Sharp, at 8:48 on 25 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> > Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> > Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.
>
> Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the
>
> Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or Treat
> Definately in the near impossible zone.

If you want to go that way, make a cyberzombie -- add twice your absolute
Essence to the TN for _any_ spell cast on you. Our group once had a
cyberzombie that wasn't even very cybered (to only about -2 Essence or so)
with a base TN of 17 to cast Heal spells on...

--
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E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 26
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:32:37 +1000
Felix writes:
> Once again slipping in wiseass mode:
> "The more cyberware a charcter has installed, the more inhuman they
> become. Overly-cybered characters tend to become a bit detached, and the
> empathy between them and other metahumans suffers for it." SRIII, 45
> A possibility to reflect this is mentioned at p.93 SRIII by imposing
> negative modifiers for charisma-based social interaction.
> Wiseass mode off....

This is not a reaction to the loss of Essence, though. It's a reaction to
the fact that they see the world through cameras, move faster than anyone
else around, and can crush walnuts in their fist.

In other words, it's a natural reaction to the fact that they are more
powerful than norms. They have to deal with this, and considering most
street sams are not exactly sensitive types, detatchment is a logical
outcome.

If you read Hatchetman's short story in Cybertechnology, you'll see that the
first thing that made him start to feel detached was a set of cyber-eyes.
Hardly any Essence cost, but a large psychological impact.

Also note that this would be a role-playing issue. Not everyone would be
effected to such an extent. Certainly, corporate types that probably have
psychological support as part of their post-implant recovery program would
probably cope a lot better.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 27
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:41:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
> >
> > Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> > Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.
>
> Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the
>
> Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or
Treat
> Definately in the near impossible zone.
> | Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student

Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
Musta missed that one...

*Doc' gets ready to torch his copy of whichever book it's in...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 28
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:48:28 +1000
Doc' writes, in respect to Body Index making it harder to be healed
magically:
> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...

Where else, but ShadowTech? :)

It's in the first few pages (that technical bit where it discusses the
effects of Bioware on magic, I think). It'll be with the section on how
bioware organs can take separate damage, and get broken.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 29
From: Trunks Ryuko kawaii@********.org
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, [iso-8859-1] Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > > Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
> > >
> > > Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> > > Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.
> >
> > Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the
> >
> > Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or
> Treat
> > Definately in the near impossible zone.
> > | Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student
>
> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...
>
> *Doc' gets ready to torch his copy of whichever book it's in...*
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer

I'm guessing it is in the Shadowtech book, since IRCC, that is the only
book that mentions body index, although I don't remember reading about it.

The other side of the retardedly high TN for healing is that if you have
that much cyber/bio, your natural healing factor should be fast anyway.
Between palate(sp?) factory, and symbiotes, most S or M wounds should heal
within a few days. Toss in damage compensator, or pain editors, and you
don't even feel the pain within those few days. =)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 30
From: Damian Sharp zadoc@***.neu.edu
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:11:44 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, [iso-8859-1] Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > > Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
> > >
> > > Mundane, Essence 6 - TNo of 4 for Heal or Treat spells.
> > > Cybermonser, Essence 0.1 - TNo of 10 for Heal or Treat spells.
> >
> > Don't forget the 1/2 your body index as well. Giving you the
> >
> > Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or
> Treat
> > Definately in the near impossible zone.
> > | Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student
>
> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...

It's hidden in Shadowtech (assuming that's where Biowear is). It's hidden
in one of those 'This is fiction, except we've got rules thrown in'
sections. That always bugs me. I like the fiction, but I wish all the
rules were in one section, with the fiction seperate. I'd say where in the
book, but I just can never find it when I need it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Student |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give a man a match and he'll be warm for an hour
Light him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
Message no. 31
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> The other side of the retardedly high TN for healing is that if you
have that much cyber/bio, your natural healing factor should be fast
anyway. Between palate(sp?) factory, and symbiotes, most S or M wounds
should heal within a few days. Toss in damage compensator, or pain
editors, and you don't even feel the pain within those few days. =)
> kawaii

Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white blood
cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).

Palate is the top of your mouth, if we're talking body parts.

*Doc' pokes Kawaii irritatingly. "C'mon, c'mon! If you can't even use
the right word, how am I supposed to believe your advice?"*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 32
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
> > *Doc' wonders if the Mr. Studmuffin(TM) CyberPenis implanted in his
forehead is what's causing his contacts to look at him funny...*
>
> LOL! Well, that's just the sort of image I need first thing in the
morning :)

*Doc' takes a bow...*

> Hmmm, off to think up what the cybersex industry is like in the
2060's...
>
> (Or was that already covered in Shadowbeat?)
> gordmeister

'Fraid not. You'll have to come up with it yourself. :)

Of course, there are some mentions in some of the later sourcebooks
regarding prostitution and the like (Underworld Sourcebook, perhaps,
Mob War, maybe, Target UCAS or Target Smuggler's Havens - I'm pretty
sure they're in those books) talking about what's done with simsense
and plastic surgery and cyberware...oh yes, as I recall, there's one
mention if the GM's book in the Denver boxed set.

Not pretty, really...

*Doc' could think of many things to say here, but somehow manages to
suppress his urges...remarkable...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 33
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 01:27:05 -0400
--------------82D1E205E3165A020E80B514
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Rand Ratinac wrote:

> <SNIP>

> Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white blood
> cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).
> <SNIP>

Um, unless my Anatomy class in High School was wrong, platelets and
White Blood cells (WBCs) are two entirely different things. Platelets are
what make the blood stop flowing out of a wound by bunching up at the
wound site and doing some nifty biological stuff, and WBCs kill any
foreign invadors.

*Strago wonders if there are any bioware systems which artificially
increase your White Blood cell count . . . and if that would help you
resist DMSO*


--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the
chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M-


--------------82D1E205E3165A020E80B514
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>Rand Ratinac wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&lt;SNIP></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known
as white blood
<BR>cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).
<BR><A
HREF="http://mail.yahoo.com">&lt;SNIP></A></BLOCKQUOTE>;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Um, unless my Anatomy class in High School was wrong,
platelets and White Blood cells (WBCs) are two entirely different things.
Platelets are what make the blood stop flowing out of a wound by bunching
up at the wound site and doing some nifty biological stuff, and WBCs kill
any foreign invadors.

<P>*Strago wonders if there are any bioware systems which artificially
increase your White Blood cell count . . . and if that would help you resist
DMSO*
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>--Strago

<P>The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++
d+) gm+ M-
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------82D1E205E3165A020E80B514--
Message no. 34
From: The Phantom phantom023@*******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 05:49:54 GMT
> > > > Try getting a magician to heal you once you've been shot up.
With that essence of 0.03... Widow, remember the good ole days when my
essence was a whole number?
<snip>
>that much cyber/bio, your natural healing factor should be fast anyway.
>Between palate(sp?) factory,
Palate Factory?! IS that a new bioware that can generate whatever taste I
want no matter what I'm eating! Whiz bang baby!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Phantom~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A decker with a shotgun beats four aces anyday."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_______________________________________________________________
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Message no. 35
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:52:58 +0200
Rand Ratinac wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white blood
> cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).
>

Funny... I could have sworn that platelets were the bits that caused
clotting, and were completely unrelated to white blood cells...

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com
Wandata

"Freedom is the ability to choose your own restrictions"
Message no. 36
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
> > Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white
blood cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood
bank).
>
> Funny... I could have sworn that platelets were the bits that caused
clotting, and were completely unrelated to white blood cells...
> Allen Versfeld

*Doc' thumps his forehead. "Doh! But then, I do work in the COMPUTER
department, not in Nursing..."*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 37
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:28:19 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 20:41 on 27 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> > Bio/Cyber Monster - 10 Body Index, Essence 0.1 - TN 15 for Heal or Treat
> > Definately in the near impossible zone.
>
> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...

It's in Shadowtech (it's a rule for bioware -- where else would it be? :)
on page 6, in the right-hand column. It says you add one-half your Body
Index to the normal TN for healing spells. (Actually, it says to add "one-
half the character's current Body Index, divided by 2" but IMHO that's a
typo.)

> *Doc' gets ready to torch his copy of whichever book it's in...*

That way you'll never find it...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 38
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:56:13 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, [iso-8859-1] Rand Ratinac wrote:

> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...

From Shadowtech, same as all the other rules for bioware.

Marc
Message no. 39
From: Trunks Ryuko kawaii@********.org
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:02:06 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, [iso-8859-1] Rand Ratinac wrote:

> <Snippola(TM)>
> > The other side of the retardedly high TN for healing is that if you
> have that much cyber/bio, your natural healing factor should be fast
> anyway. Between palate(sp?) factory, and symbiotes, most S or M wounds
> should heal within a few days. Toss in damage compensator, or pain
> editors, and you don't even feel the pain within those few days. =)
> > kawaii
>
> Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white blood
> cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).
>
> Palate is the top of your mouth, if we're talking body parts.
>
> *Doc' pokes Kawaii irritatingly. "C'mon, c'mon! If you can't even use
> the right word, how am I supposed to believe your advice?"*
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer

Heh. My bad. I knew there was a few more l's, t's and e's in that word
that I was forgetting. =)

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 40
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:29:56 -0500
> > Hmmm, off to think up what the cybersex industry is like in the
> 2060's...
> >
> > (Or was that already covered in Shadowbeat?)
> > gordmeister
>
> 'Fraid not. You'll have to come up with it yourself. :)
>
> Of course, there are some mentions in some of the later sourcebooks
> regarding prostitution and the like (Underworld Sourcebook, perhaps,
> Mob War, maybe, Target UCAS or Target Smuggler's Havens - I'm pretty
> sure they're in those books) talking about what's done with simsense
> and plastic surgery and cyberware...oh yes, as I recall, there's one
> mention if the GM's book in the Denver boxed set.
>
> Not pretty, really...
>
And let's not forget the picture in Tir Tairngire of a troll prostitute
waiting for a John on the streetcorner. It makes me ill just looking at it.
Message no. 41
From: gordmeister@*********.org gordmeister@*********.org
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:06:01 +0100
> > Hmmm, off to think up what the cybersex industry is like in the
> 2060's...
> >
> > (Or was that already covered in Shadowbeat?)
> > gordmeister
>
> 'Fraid not. You'll have to come up with it yourself. :)

Ah good, a worthwhile persuit for those long summer evenings :)

> Of course, there are some mentions in some of the later sourcebooks
> regarding prostitution and the like (Underworld Sourcebook, perhaps,
> Mob War, maybe, Target UCAS or Target Smuggler's Havens - I'm pretty
> sure they're in those books) talking about what's done with simsense
> and plastic surgery and cyberware...oh yes, as I recall, there's one
> mention if the GM's book in the Denver boxed set.


There's some mention of it in Mob War, to do with Nadja Daviar no less :)
[better avoid spoilers...]

Must get my Underworld Sourcebook back, bah humbug there's nothing as annoying
as living in a different country from your Shadowrun books....

gordmeister
Message no. 42
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:36:07 -0500
:> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
:> Musta missed that one...

p. 6 "Shadowtech", second comlumn, second paragraph

:It's hidden in Shadowtech (assuming that's where Biowear is). It's hidden
:in one of those 'This is fiction, except we've got rules thrown in'
:sections. That always bugs me. I like the fiction, but I wish all the
:rules were in one section, with the fiction seperate. I'd say where in the
:book, but I just can never find it when I need it.

Thers not so much "fiction" as non-fiction background material there.
Alkl the Bioware Rules info is either at the beging (p.5-7) or the end
(p.12) of the section. None of the stuff on p.8-11 actually affects the
game as rules, but neither is it fiction.

Mongoose
Message no. 43
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:04:29 -0500
:Toss in damage compensator, or pain
:editors, and you don't even feel the pain within those few days. =)
:> kawaii
:
:Platelet, Kawaii. They're a part of blood, also known as white blood
:cells (you'd think I'd know this, considering I work in a blood bank).

:*Doc' pokes Kawaii irritatingly. "C'mon, c'mon! If you can't even use
:the right word, how am I supposed to believe your advice?"*


Not only are platelets not white blood cells, the Platelet Factory
bioware just prevents you from taking damage, and is no help in healing (by
the flavor text, its actually a pain in the ass medically speaking). Of
course, having a box (or more) less damage puts you one (or more) would
levels down, which makes healing MUCH easier. Best way to heal fast (magic
aside) is to not get hurt bad- its easy to bounce back from a Serious wound
that only causes 5 boxes of damage, especially if you treat that now
Moderate wound with first aid to reduce it to a Light! Hell, most mages can
get rid of the Light for ya, regardless of your essence or lack thereof.

Mongoose
Message no. 44
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:19:36 +1000
>
> > Funny... I could have sworn that platelets were the bits that caused
> clotting, and were completely unrelated to white blood cells...
> > Allen Versfeld
>
> *Doc' thumps his forehead. "Doh! But then, I do work in the COMPUTER
> department, not in Nursing..."*

Remind me never to need first aid while youre the only person round to
give it...

*GreyWolf dies a violent and unrequired death when Doc attempts to shore
up his broken arm using live 'high voltage' cables.*

GrWf
Message no. 45
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:01:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Funny... I could have sworn that platelets were the bits that
caused clotting, and were completely unrelated to white blood cells...
> > > Allen Versfeld
> >
> > *Doc' thumps his forehead. "Doh! But then, I do work in the
COMPUTER department, not in Nursing..."*
>
> Remind me never to need first aid while youre the only person round
to give it...
>
> *GreyWolf dies a violent and unrequired death when Doc attempts to
shore up his broken arm using live 'high voltage' cables.*
>
> GrWf

Don't worry - I've never CLAIMED to know first aid...except when I get
out my white coat and stethescope, of course...

*Doc' takes GreyWolf's mind off the pain of his broken arm by breaking
his fingers.*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 46
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:13:51 +1000
> *Doc' takes GreyWolf's mind off the pain of his broken arm by breaking
> his fingers.*

That would only work if you break the fingers of the _other_ arm. If you
break the fingers on the broken arm, it would just increase the generalised
sense of pain in the arm.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 47
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:18:16 +1000
> > *Doc' takes GreyWolf's mind off the pain of his broken arm by breaking
> > his fingers.*
>
> That would only work if you break the fingers of the _other_ arm. If you
> break the fingers on the broken arm, it would just increase the generalised
> sense of pain in the arm.

PLEASE dont give him ideas :P~

GreyWolf

*and the OT thread stops here... before the GRIDSEC caught them and had them
shot - broken arms and all...*
Message no. 48
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:15:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > > *Doc' takes GreyWolf's mind off the pain of his broken arm by
breaking his fingers.*
> >
> > That would only work if you break the fingers of the _other_ arm.
If you break the fingers on the broken arm, it would just increase the
generalised sense of pain in the arm.
>
> PLEASE dont give him ideas :P~
> GreyWolf

*"Hmmm..." Doc' rubs his chin thoughtfully...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 49
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Insanity through essence loss.
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:05:47 EDT
In a message dated 6/27/1999 10:42:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>
> Woah, baby! Where the frag does that (the body index rule) come from?
> Musta missed that one...
>
> *Doc' gets ready to torch his copy of whichever book it's in...*
> ==
Shadowtech
-K

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