Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:44:37 -0700
At 04:39 PM 8/2/00 EDT, you wrote:
>Beautiful info...but, a quick question. What's the deal with
kids/dependants?
>Are they interviewed, etc.? Or only spouse and others? My memory just bit:
>It's been a few years since assorted people I know, such as my dad, have
been
>on projects which, I know now, probably require it...should I get ready for
>one hell of an odd phone call from the FBI?:-)
>
>John
>


Heh. Thats the kicker. When you get an SBI done, you put down a couple of
references (5, IIRC). They go to those references, and don't really ask
them any questions, except that they ask them for other references. Then
they go to those other references, the ones YOU didn't mention, and ask
them all the questions. They figure that the references you listed are all
rather safe, and won't say bad things about you, so they have to ask other
people. Tricky, tricky.

Anyways, as for dependents, yeah, you'll probably get a phone call, but
they won't ask much. Mostly just checking on the truth of anything they
said, and making sure nothing too strange happened to you.

Dave
Message no. 2
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:16:16 -0700
At 02:27 PM 8/2/00 -0700, Ken wrote:
>From: <DemonPenta@***.com>
>
>And you DO lose your clearance. I had TS/SCI. I didn't need the SCI access
>anymore so was downrated to TS when I got to 3D MAW. After I was read out in
>Decemember I no longer had a clearance at all! Now, it may be easier to get
>one later or have the old one reactivated but I lost it. It's gone. I don't
>have a need to know.
>

No, you just lost your access. To regain it, you would have to go through
the five year reinvestigation. Misnamed, yes, because they don't do it
every five years anymore. The reason for getting a reinvestigation are
varied. One of them is losing your access because of getting out and
getting back in.


>> Even if you don't need it, you'll have it, and go through the
>> things associated. With the exception of certain odd locations, too, high
>> security clearances are RARE. Offhand, I'd guess a single TS-level check
>> costs MAYBE a million dollars.
>
>There is no way in hell it costs that much, they would go bankrupt! Nor is
>the check infallible. They are mainly out to make sure you're not hiding
>anything. Hell I know people with drug convictions who got a TS/SCI
>clearance or who used drugs but were never busted and were open about it.
>The logic is if you lie about that you're also likely to lie about other
>matters like personal problems or if you're being blackmailed.
>

No, they are not all that rare, nor are they that expensive. In the USMC
alone (not couting the Army, Navy or Air Force), there are about 3500
Marines involved in SIGINT, all of whom possess TS/SI clearances. This is
not including the rest of the USMC intel community, many of whom also
possess TS/clearances. Off hand, I'd say about 10000 Marines have these
clearances. Multiply that by about 3 for the Army and Air Force, and 2 for
the Navy, and you have close to 100,000 military people with these
clearances. Then there are the contractors, civillians, gov't officials,
etc... They aren't that rare, nor expensive, though they do cost a couple
of dollars.

You'd also be suprised at some of the things people do and still retain
their clearances. Contrawise, some people get them yanked for what seems
like minor offenses. It all depends on many things.

Also, as Ken alluded to in his postings, just because you have a TS/SI
clearance doesn't mean you have access to any kind of knowledge you want.
It's rather difficult to get info about an area you are not currently
working in. For example, I have no idea whether there really are alien
spacecraft at Groom Lake, though I worked at the NSA and still hold a TS/SI
clearance. My personal opinion, though, is that there aren't...Heh.

One thing to remember above all, is that this is the US Gov't, the same
gov't that couldn't keep the Pres getting his cigar sucked by an intern a
secret. Do you really think they can keep all that many secrets?

Dave
Message no. 3
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:27:58 -0700
At 03:19 PM 8/2/00 -0700, Ken wrote:
>
>It's something of a mess, I really wonder how things stay consistent once
>you get into the SCI programs.
>

Easy answer: they don't. You should know that like anything else that is
part of the military or the government, it's always changing, and very
rarely makes sense.

Dave
Message no. 4
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 09:44:10 EDT
>From: "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>

Lots of good info.

One thing I didn't see noted - for Top Secret clearance, you also
get fingerprinted. (I think it's for the criminal background check)


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 5
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:05:49 EDT
In a message dated 8/3/00 9:44:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

> One thing I didn't see noted - for Top Secret clearance, you also
> get fingerprinted. (I think it's for the criminal background check)

I thought you got fingerprinted just for it being a government job?:-)
Message no. 6
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:44:52 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 DemonPenta@***.com wrote:

> > One thing I didn't see noted - for Top Secret clearance, you also
> > get fingerprinted. (I think it's for the criminal background check)
>
> I thought you got fingerprinted just for it being a government job?:-)

Even if you don't work for the government, you still get
fingerprinted.

Marc
Message no. 7
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:48:55 EDT
In a message dated 8/3/00 1:45:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
renouf@********.com writes:

> Even if you don't work for the government, you still get
> fingerprinted.

Neh. Semantics.:-) I meant working for, with, being known by, existing in the
vicinity of....etc.
:-)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Intelligence Methods Part 2: Classifications and Clearance, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!