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Message no. 1
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:39:00 MST
I was reading the rule on interception under combat in the SRII. It says
that if you are moving and pass within one meter of an opponent, the
opponent gets a free melee attack at you. This makes sense and all.

But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and move
away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply? Shouldn't there be something the
opponent can do to prevent this, or gain some kind of advantage from this?

In D&D..(What was that noise?...sounded like a primal groan?) you can't
disengage from combat without your opponent either getting a free shot.
Unless you have a buddy in combat with you that can block your retreat.

Do you think this makes sense, or does the time frame take care of this? (3
sec combat turn). It may seem like you could just leave combat at any time,
but it also seems like your opponent can likewise follow you at any time,
even though movement is not a free action. It comes down to game mechanics
and modeling reality the best you can (or as much as you are willing)

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:49:18 +0000
|
|I was reading the rule on interception under combat in the SRII. It says
|that if you are moving and pass within one meter of an opponent, the
|opponent gets a free melee attack at you. This makes sense and all.
|
|But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and move
|away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply? Shouldn't there be something the
|opponent can do to prevent this, or gain some kind of advantage from this?

I'd rule that he can attempt to ramain in combat by moving with the person
in retreat, or get one free his as he moves away.....

|In D&D..(What was that noise?...sounded like a primal groan?) you can't
|disengage from combat without your opponent either getting a free shot.

I was just thinking of that parallel

| Unless you have a buddy in combat with you that can block your retreat.

Yup..... I think this is falling into the domain of house rules again....
--
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|Andrew Halliwell | |
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Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:13:41 -0700
Denzil Kruse wrote:
|
| I was reading the rule on interception under combat in the SRII. It says
| that if you are moving and pass within one meter of an opponent, the
| opponent gets a free melee attack at you. This makes sense and all.
|
| But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and move
| away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply? Shouldn't there be something the
| opponent can do to prevent this, or gain some kind of advantage from this?

I would rule no, if you retreat from someone they don't get
a free attack.

One of the main differences between SR's combat system and
AD$D's is that SR combat rounds last 4-3 seconds, whereas
AD$D's last 60 seconds. In AD$D your opponent has plenty
of time to keep up with you and get his attack in during
the combat round if you're trying to retreat. In SR that
isn't the case.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
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Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:05:47 -0500
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>>>>> "d" == dkruse <dkruse@***.az05.bull.com> writes:

d> But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and
d> move away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply?

No.

When you move *into* someone's zone he is at an advantage over you. He
does not need to extend himself to attack you whereas you already have
extended yourself simply by moving into his zone.

But when you start from within his zone and move out he has to extend
himself to launch an attack. At this point it becomes a matter of who
is faster. If you are faster you will be able to leave your opponent's
zone before he can strike; if he is faster he will be able to strike
before you move.

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--
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\ kept under refrigeration.
Message no. 5
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:41:12 GMT
Denzil Kruse writes

> I was reading the rule on interception under combat in the SRII. It says
> that if you are moving and pass within one meter of an opponent, the
> opponent gets a free melee attack at you. This makes sense and all.
>
Ok thats the only FASA rule.

> But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and move
> away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply? Shouldn't there be something the
> opponent can do to prevent this, or gain some kind of advantage from this?
>
If you turn around and just run sure, but if the person trying to
break away backs off, fighting withdrawl and then clears out they
stand a chance, if they have a higher quickness it stands to reason
they should be able to manouver free, once a gap opens who can run
fastest is what counts.

> Do you think this makes sense, or does the time frame take care of this? (3
> sec combat turn). It may seem like you could just leave combat at any time,
> but it also seems like your opponent can likewise follow you at any time,
> even though movement is not a free action. It comes down to game mechanics
> and modeling reality the best you can (or as much as you are willing)

Even at 3 seconds your average mundane gets 1 action and his trianing
won't get him any more, so you sure can throw multiple blows in that
time. Comes down to common sense, those that know more about what
will really happen will be able to interpolate better.

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:35:30 +0100
Denzil Kruse said on 10:39/27 Jan 97...

> But what happens when you start out within one meter of someone and move
> away. Shouldn't a free attack also apply? Shouldn't there be something the
> opponent can do to prevent this, or gain some kind of advantage from this?

Starting out at one meter distance and then moving away would count as
passing within a meter, IMHO, giving your opponent a free attack.

> In D&D..(What was that noise?...sounded like a primal groan?) you can't
> disengage from combat without your opponent either getting a free shot.
> Unless you have a buddy in combat with you that can block your retreat.

Isn't that only when you turn around and walk/run away? If you keep facing
your opponent, I don't think he gets a free attack at you... (It wouldn't
make sense if he did, anyway.)

> even though movement is not a free action.

Movement is not an action at all; the restriction on movement is that you
can only move in those Combat Phases in which you get to act (other than a
Free Action). Fields of Fire and the Companion give a few situations where
you may move "out of phase" as it were, but those are more like exceptions
for special situations.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Stoke me a clipper. I'll be back for christmas.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:02:15 -0700
Gurth wrote:
|
| Starting out at one meter distance and then moving away would count as
| passing within a meter, IMHO, giving your opponent a free attack.

My only arguement against this is the definition of the
word "pass". IMO, you can't "pass" by someone if you are
retreating directly away from them.

If the declaration was to run past the NPC to get to
whatever, then I would give the NPC a free attack on the
PC. But if all the PC is doing is backing up a couple of
meters (or more) then he really isn't "passing" by the
NPC. By retreating the PC isn't moving into, then out of,
the NPC's 1 meter melee attack range, allowing the NPC time
to react to the movement.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
David Buehrer said on 8:02/28 Jan 97...

> My only arguement against this is the definition of the word "pass".
> IMO, you can't "pass" by someone if you are retreating directly away
> from them.

Not retreating, but turning and running. When someone retreats (facing the
opponent), I wouldn't give any free attack, OTOH just running away would
IMHO be cause for a free strike.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:07:00 MST
>> My only arguement against this is the definition of the word "pass".
>> IMO, you can't "pass" by someone if you are retreating directly away
>> from them.
>
>Not retreating, but turning and running. When someone retreats (facing the
>opponent), I wouldn't give any free attack, OTOH just running away would
>IMHO be cause for a free strike.

Why would someone ever turn and run then? Wouldn't they just back up 1 or 2
meters then run?

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 10
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Interception: disengaging melee
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:41:51 -0500
Denzil Kruse wrote,
>Why would someone ever turn and run then? Wouldn't they just back up 1
>or 2 meters then run?

Game mecahanic wise or real life fight? If you want to safely diengage
then that is exactly what you would need to do or risk getting
blindsided. As they say though, melee in Shadowrun is an abstraction so I
don't worry too much about alot of the technical aspects.




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