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Message no. 1
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 00:26:43 -0500 (EST)
>Ah, intradimensional beings, hmm.. Could work this into the Metaplanes
>concept, after all, no one *really* knows what's out there, as modern
>mages have only brushed the surface of the metaaplanes. :)
>
Very true... of course, they could also be a follow up of the bugs and yet
another forerunners of the true horrors...:)

>No, I like the pandimensional stuff. Metaplanar demons and devils
>strikes me as more enjoyable, and ultimately more useable. One could
>have a considerable amount of fun with these things manifesting to
>spirit summonses and other "magical" wierdness. And of course there's
>the metaplane quests for initiation. Hmm... decils and demons, makes
>nacromancy and several other magical classes of study more feasible. I
>will have to go off and dig out my original texts and rework them.
>
You go right ahead... I can do the plot threads and the weirdness, and
occasionally crank out stats, but in general I can't do magic... Or tech...
I got the theory, just not the practice...:)

>Thanks Steve, there I was thinking I'd just about finished fragging
>around with the game, and you go and create more work for me. Ta muchly
>- not :) :)
>
Sorry...:( Just trying to give out cool concepts...:):)

>>-Bull-the-ever-creative-but-failin-miserably-decker-turned-GM
>Depends on your definition of failing miserably. As far as I'm
>concerned you can go right ahead and fail. I don't like you anymore,
>you've created another load of work for me to do, and destroy my
>players' faith in the fairness of Shadowrun Magic. :) :)
>
Sorry... <grins, no he's not, and you're loving the new concepts and ideas..>

-Bull-the not-quite-as-sorry-as-he-sounds-decker-turned-GM



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"Listen... You smell that?"
-Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
Message no. 2
From: NightLife <habenir@******.san.uc.edu>
Subject: Re: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 00:51:03 -0700
At 12:26 AM 10/7/96 -0500, Steven Ratkovich wrote:
>>Ah, intradimensional beings, hmm.. Could work this into the Metaplanes
>>concept, after all, no one *really* knows what's out there, as modern
>>mages have only brushed the surface of the metaaplanes. :)
>>
>Very true... of course, they could also be a follow up of the bugs and yet
>another forerunners of the true horrors...:)
>
>>No, I like the pandimensional stuff. Metaplanar demons and devils
>>strikes me as more enjoyable, and ultimately more useable. One could
>>have a considerable amount of fun with these things manifesting to
>>spirit summonses and other "magical" wierdness. And of course there's
>>the metaplane quests for initiation. Hmm... decils and demons, makes
>>nacromancy and several other magical classes of study more feasible. I
>>will have to go off and dig out my original texts and rework them.
>>
>You go right ahead... I can do the plot threads and the weirdness, and
>occasionally crank out stats, but in general I can't do magic... Or tech...
>I got the theory, just not the practice...:)
>
>>Thanks Steve, there I was thinking I'd just about finished fragging
>>around with the game, and you go and create more work for me. Ta muchly
>>- not :) :)
>>
>Sorry...:( Just trying to give out cool concepts...:):)
>
>>>-Bull-the-ever-creative-but-failin-miserably-decker-turned-GM
>>Depends on your definition of failing miserably. As far as I'm
>>concerned you can go right ahead and fail. I don't like you anymore,
>>you've created another load of work for me to do, and destroy my
>>players' faith in the fairness of Shadowrun Magic. :) :)
>>
>Sorry... <grins, no he's not, and you're loving the new concepts and ideas..>

You know this could work into the old relgious type of debate? Using demon
and devil make the Judeo-Christian ethic right in this game. I.E. look is
has demon so all the other mages and shamans are wrong and ignorant. Better
to come with non-aligned critters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicley I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 3
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:22:57 -0500 (EST)
[snip all previous info an Deevils, devils, demons, and interdimensional
gateways]


>You know this could work into the old relgious type of debate? Using demon
>and devil make the Judeo-Christian ethic right in this game. I.E. look is
>has demon so all the other mages and shamans are wrong and ignorant. Better
>to come with non-aligned critters.
>
Yes, but you know the old saying, almost all fairy tales are based somewhat
on fact..>:) I think the last magic age was responsible for most of our
current myths about trolls and elves and such... And most other myths had a
base somewhere too...

Now, before I go into this, let me stress two points...

a) I am a Christian. i believe in God. I believe in the Devil. But I'm
not gonna try to pound it into you, so don't worry...:)

b) I do realize this is a game and can keep my fact from fiction and what
not. the following is for imaginary game purposes only...

That said, shall we continue...?

Well, ans I said, most myth has a basis in reality in the SR world... Why
not the concept of Devils, Demons, or whatever...? They could be nothing
more than creature who were elevated to a higher status by storytelling over
a millenia. however, some in the future world of SR will take there
appearance as proof of there faith, and some would take it as proof that
their faith is false... (Look, see, your evil devil is nothing more than an
annoying critter I can blow away with my LMG...).

Ah well, I'm not saying this should be hard and true SR arcana... But could
have a basis in the world...:)

Just my nonsense...:)

-Bull-the-spouting-a-lot-tonite-decker-turned-GM



****************************************************************************
*******
-Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich
chaos@*****.com
Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
****************************************************************************
*******
"Listen... You smell that?"
-Dr. Peter Venkman, "Ghostbusters"
Message no. 4
From: NightLife <habenir@******.san.uc.edu>
Subject: Re: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 02:50:46 -0700
At 02:22 AM 10/7/96 -0500, Steven Ratkovich wrote:
>[snip all previous info an Deevils, devils, demons, and interdimensional
>gateways]
>
>
>>You know this could work into the old relgious type of debate? Using demon
>>and devil make the Judeo-Christian ethic right in this game. I.E. look is
>>has demon so all the other mages and shamans are wrong and ignorant. Better
>>to come with non-aligned critters.
>>
>Yes, but you know the old saying, almost all fairy tales are based somewhat
>on fact..>:) I think the last magic age was responsible for most of our
>current myths about trolls and elves and such... And most other myths had a
>base somewhere too...
>
>Now, before I go into this, let me stress two points...
>
>a) I am a Christian. i believe in God. I believe in the Devil. But I'm
>not gonna try to pound it into you, so don't worry...:)
>
>b) I do realize this is a game and can keep my fact from fiction and what
>not. the following is for imaginary game purposes only...
>

Good you can, but can most people who are gonna see this if it makes its way
into a net book. I just trying to about bible beating that all. You know
save a bunch of grief. I gotta deal with a born again christian who ever
time a spirit or elememtnal is summoned point out that is a demon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicley I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 5
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 03:03:33 +0100
In article <199610070722.CAA14820@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>[snip all previous info an Deevils, devils, demons, and interdimensional
>gateways]
>
>
>>You know this could work into the old relgious type of debate? Using demon
>>and devil make the Judeo-Christian ethic right in this game. I.E. look is
>>has demon so all the other mages and shamans are wrong and ignorant. Better
>>to come with non-aligned critters.
>>
>Yes, but you know the old saying, almost all fairy tales are based somewhat
>on fact..>:) I think the last magic age was responsible for most of our
>current myths about trolls and elves and such... And most other myths had a
>base somewhere too...

Nearly all myths we have today are dimensions on a "rumour" similar to
the "bigfoot/sasquatch/ufo/thing" of modern day. There are a tremendous
amount of religious/pseudo rligious and mythical texts around from many
areas of the world, all of which have "similar" concepts, albeit they
are usually tied tightly to one or another religion.

>
>Now, before I go into this, let me stress two points...
>
>a) I am a Christian. i believe in God. I believe in the Devil. But I'm
>not gonna try to pound it into you, so don't worry...:)

I was born a Christian, but am an existing agnostic. Go ahead and
pound, it bothers me not. I'm a duck, it all washes off. :)
>
>b) I do realize this is a game and can keep my fact from fiction and what
>not. the following is for imaginary game purposes only...
>
As can most people, it's only a very few of the fanatical variety who
can't. :( (maybe I've phrased that wrongly, but I think the point is
right) .

>That said, shall we continue...?
Please do :)

>
>Well, ans I said, most myth has a basis in reality in the SR world... Why
>not the concept of Devils, Demons, or whatever...? They could be nothing
>more than creature who were elevated to a higher status by storytelling over
>a millenia. however, some in the future world of SR will take there
>appearance as proof of there faith, and some would take it as proof that
>their faith is false... (Look, see, your evil devil is nothing more than an
>annoying critter I can blow away with my LMG...).

Absolutely, I agree totally with you, this was the intention to my
referral to the metaplanes, and the indication of the "appearance" of
the spirits. If demons and devils were "real creatures" we would have
physical evidence of their existence, but as a "mis interpreted"
metaplanar creature... now the fun starts. When you look back in
history, consider the reactions of the people say in Africa when the
first white man turned up, and the reaction of that white man to people
with such dark skins. This is reflected throughout history as man
misinterprets a lot of things around him in the physical world.

Alot of current theories are being blown away on a regular basis as man
finds new and more plausible/accurate explanations.

>
>Ah well, I'm not saying this should be hard and true SR arcana... But could
>have a basis in the world...:)
It is highly unlikely, in light of the movements in Europe and the US,
regarding role playing games, andt slamming FASA received for their
Vodoun stuff in Awakenings, that devils and demons are ever going to be
included in Shadowrun - at least not officially. But... the metaplanes
are an unexplored and unknown region. This place could be formed by the
psychic impression of humankind, and each "race" would see creatures
from his/her mythology, or to keep the psychic stuff out, maybe the
planes are where the myths and legends of "their" creatures came from,
brought in by "accident or belief".


>Just my nonsense...:)
>
>-Bull-the-spouting-a-lot-tonite-decker-turned-GM

My nonsense added to it.
Pete (also spouting a lot)

--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 6
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Interdimensional Metaplanar Deevils,,,:)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 03:10:46 +0100
In article <199610070526.AAA28347@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>>Ah, intradimensional beings, hmm.. Could work this into the Metaplanes
>>concept, after all, no one *really* knows what's out there, as modern
>>mages have only brushed the surface of the metaaplanes. :)
>>
>Very true... of course, they could also be a follow up of the bugs and yet
>another forerunners of the true horrors...:)

I can't go with forerunners or latecomers, I feel they should be
entities very much in their own light. Of course, the temptation at
this point is to get a little dangerous, and start explaining away
things like angels and stuff also, but at this point I start getting
really close to religion, and this is a dangerous and rocky subject,
*especially* over e-mail. My own personal thoughts regarding the above,
would be that the creatures so prevalent in world religions and
mythology would have originated from these areas.

The metaplanes are relative "unknowns" to mankind, and it is a plausible
explanation to suggest that the creatures used in mythology and religion
originated from these planes. So some would be benign, some benevolent,
others downright bloody mean. Buyt only from an SR point of view.

(Wonders why he even suggested it, after realising how dangerous this
topic could be). :(


>>No, I like the pandimensional stuff. Metaplanar demons and devils
>>strikes me as more enjoyable, and ultimately more useable. One could
>>have a considerable amount of fun with these things manifesting to
>>spirit summonses and other "magical" wierdness. And of course there's
>>the metaplane quests for initiation. Hmm... decils and demons, makes
>>nacromancy and several other magical classes of study more feasible. I
>>will have to go off and dig out my original texts and rework them.
>>
>You go right ahead... I can do the plot threads and the weirdness, and
>occasionally crank out stats, but in general I can't do magic... Or tech...
>I got the theory, just not the practice...:)

Oh, great, thanks :) Don't offer too much support will you :) :).
"I can do the plot threads", duh!!! :) Like who can't ?? :) :)

You cheeky herbert... :) That does it, I'll work out the details and
let anyone else who wants them have them - except you, I'll post them to
you half a page at a time :) (not really) <grin>

>
>>Thanks Steve, there I was thinking I'd just about finished fragging
>>around with the game, and you go and create more work for me. Ta muchly
>>- not :) :)
>>
>Sorry...:( Just trying to give out cool concepts...:):)

Yeah right. :) Like you really mean it :)
>
>>>-Bull-the-ever-creative-but-failin-miserably-decker-turned-GM
>>Depends on your definition of failing miserably. As far as I'm
>>concerned you can go right ahead and fail. I don't like you anymore,
>>you've created another load of work for me to do, and destroy my
>>players' faith in the fairness of Shadowrun Magic. :) :)
>>
>Sorry... <grins, no he's not, and you're loving the new concepts and ideas..>

Didn't think you were :)

>
>-Bull-the not-quite-as-sorry-as-he-sounds-decker-turned-GM

Typical. :) That's what you get for talking to a Troll :)
No seriously, you had a good idea(ish) I will investigate it further,
though I don't know if it would be suitable for general release :(
Might take some time though :(

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen

Further Reading

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