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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Walter Scheper)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Thu May 2 01:55:00 2002
On 2 May 2002 at 0:04, Rev. Mike Martin wrote:

[snip]
> Might help to do the bearings... but I don't buy the cylinder walls or
> pistons...
>
> Mike
> --

Actually, he's right. You've got to have the oil on the piston as well, otherwise
you're going to have too much friction and your motor will lock up when the
pistons swell beyond the tolerances of the chamber. If you avoid that then you'll
probably end up grinding down the pistons and you'll start gouging chunks out of
the chamber walls.

For those who are interested, and don't already know: most pistons have two
rings. The top one provides a seal with the cylinder wall and contains the
expansion of the burning fuel and the lower one keeps oil from leaking into the
chamber. Originally they only used one ring, but that let too much oil into the
chamber.

However Derek, you're assuming that dikoting the piston won't change how it
expands as the engine temp picks up. I'm not sure how coating a piston in a "good
heat conductor" that also happens to be extremely hard would change the piston's
fit, but I expect you'd end up needing pistons that were custom tooled to account
for whatever the change was. You're also forgetting the rest of the engine, which
probably wasn't built for whatever pressure/temperature you're going to be
running at. You're better off building a new engine from scratch that's designed
for the fuel you're using than trying to use dikote on an old engine. (This may
be what you're thinking of, but to me it sounded like you were talking about
retooling an old engine.)
--
Walter Scheper - who has finally found a use for his one ME elective :)
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Thu May 2 02:50:01 2002
> You're also forgetting the rest of the
> engine, which
> probably wasn't built for whatever pressure/temperature you're going
to be
> running at. You're better off building a new engine from scratch
that's
> designed
> for the fuel you're using than trying to use dikote on an old engine.
> (This may
> be what you're thinking of, but to me it sounded like you were talking
> about
> retooling an old engine.)
> --
> Walter Scheper - who has finally found a use for his one ME elective
:)

ok so lemme see if I'm understanding what you're saying right, you're
saying that dikoting ONLY the head of the piston (to make it more
resistant to the heat and harder) and the inside of the cylinder walls
(so that they're more resistant to increased pressure as well as have
less friction) wouldn't be a benefit if you were trying to beef up an
engine for performance? (say umm.....twin turbos and a few more psi of
NOS than what you'd dare run in something not tweaked to run it?

My point I was trying to get at was if you could do it to more than just
weapons is that you could use it as a performance enhancer within a
vehicle, dikoting the individual ball bearings would make them harder
and more resistant to breakdown, dikoting the track in which the dikoted
bearings would be riding in would make it resistant enough to take the
extra endurance that the balls would have, using a graphite based
substance as the lubricant would further reduce the friction and thereby
reducing the heat, and in turn allowing any part of the vehicle equipped
with these bearings to take less wear and tear from normal use which
would reduce the upkeep costs, it would also allow the internal parts to
operate more efficiently because they would have more smoothly flowing
bearings as well as faster bearings, personal experience has shown me
that faster bearings does in turn result in faster operation. If this
is the case, the vehicle may not have more horsepower just from
replacing all of the regular bearings with dikoted varieties but it
would make it run better, the engine would be able to rev faster and
sustain a higher RPM without risking damage, (**keeping in mind this is
ONLY for the game**), if this were the case the vehicle would
technically be allowed a higher top speed and should actually allow MORE
speed and power producing modifications to be made. While this wouldn't
be practical for the run of the mill shadowrunning rigger it would come
into play very heavily for anyone that was a "car buff" I've got a
person in my game right now who's character is in the process of
restoring a 1968 Hemi Cuda, he's also obsessed with speed and will do
anything he can to get more power and speed out of his car and would
willingly shell out the cash as he could make it to beef his baby like
I'd described if it were possible. Anything that would make his hard
earned cash last longer would be worth the cash. As you can see my
objective here is to arrive at an agreeable standpoint from which you
could do it and what effects it would have in game because as I said,
I've got someone that wants it, wants it bad, and wants it fast! LOL
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Walter Scheper)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Thu May 2 15:30:01 2002
On 2 May 2002 at 1:50, Derek Hyde wrote:

[snip my stuff]
> ok so lemme see if I'm understanding what you're saying right, you're
> saying that dikoting ONLY the head of the piston (to make it more
> resistant to the heat and harder) and the inside of the cylinder walls
[snip a bit]

Ah, from the previous discussion I had understood that you were coating the
entire piston in dikote, and just the piston.

[snip some more]
> While this wouldn't be practical for the run of the mill shadowrunning
> rigger it would come into play very heavily for anyone that was a "car
> buff" I've got a person in my game right now who's character is in the
> process of restoring a 1968 Hemi Cuda, he's also obsessed with speed and
> will do anything he can to get more power and speed out of his car and
> would willingly shell out the cash as he could make it to beef his baby
> like I'd described if it were possible.

Yeah, I'd say doing that is possible, but it will cost quite a bundle. One of
the irritating things about the dikote rules is the minimum cost. Of course,
that depends somewhat on how you interpret the rules. A really strict
interpretation would charge him at least 2000¥ per part. Personally, I think
there's wiggle room for coating small things like ball bearings in bulk, but
that's up to you as the GM.
--
Walter Scheper
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Thu May 2 21:10:01 2002
> Yeah, I'd say doing that is possible, but it will cost quite a bundle.
One
> of
> the irritating things about the dikote rules is the minimum cost. Of
> course,
> that depends somewhat on how you interpret the rules. A really strict
> interpretation would charge him at least 2000¥ per part. Personally, I
> think
> there's wiggle room for coating small things like ball bearings in
bulk,
> but
> that's up to you as the GM.
> --
> Walter Scheper

I was going to say that the Dikote Internals upgrade would be somewhere
in the neighborhood of about 20,000¥ because not only is it VASTLY going
to decrease the upkeep costs, it's also going to make it run smoother,
the question now being how much would you say that it'd up the top speed
and would it effect handling at all since ALL bearings and such would be
treated....
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Thu May 2 21:30:01 2002
Walter Scheper wrote:
>
> On 2 May 2002 at 1:50, Derek Hyde wrote:

>
> Yeah, I'd say doing that is possible, but it will cost quite a bundle. One of
> the irritating things about the dikote rules is the minimum cost. Of course,
> that depends somewhat on how you interpret the rules. A really strict
> interpretation would charge him at least 2000¥ per part. Personally, I think
> there's wiggle room for coating small things like ball bearings in bulk, but
> that's up to you as the GM.

I think you would be more likely to find Dikote bearings. That is,
bearings made wholly out of synthetic diamond. They can be mass
produced, although most likely in orbit which would keep the cost up.
Or on earth it could be done as oysters make pearls (around a tiny
grain).

--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge
in maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss
unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could
adjust to accordingly.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Walter Scheper)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 01:10:01 2002
On 2 May 2002 at 21:26, Iridios wrote:

> Walter Scheper wrote:
[snip]

> I think you would be more likely to find Dikote bearings. That is,
> bearings made wholly out of synthetic diamond. They can be mass
> produced, although most likely in orbit which would keep the cost up.
> Or on earth it could be done as oysters make pearls (around a tiny
> grain).
>
> --
> Iridios

That's true. Wish I'd read this before my last post, I might revise my estimate of
the cost down some. However, I still think the 20,000 is low. You're looking at
2000¥ per piston, plus the cylinder walls, plus buying the dikote bearings, plus
all of the parts where the bearings are, plus any part that moves. That's a lot of
parts for 2 grand per 100 cm^2, minimum of 2 grand. I'm assuming he's doing this
after character creation, so SI applies. I'm also assuming you can get only the
areas you want coated. If you have to dikote the entire engine block, then you're
talking way more than 20,000. Anyone want to calculate the surface area of an
engine to the nearest 100 cm^2? *grin*
--
Walter Scheper
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Walter Scheper)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 01:10:04 2002
On 2 May 2002 at 19:13, Derek Hyde wrote:

[snip]

> I was going to say that the Dikote Internals upgrade would be somewhere in
> the neighborhood of about 20,000¥ because not only is it VASTLY going to
> decrease the upkeep costs, it's also going to make it run smoother, the
> question now being how much would you say that it'd up the top speed and
> would it effect handling at all since ALL bearings and such would be
> treated....
>
I'd say 20,000 seems low (only 10 'parts' being dikoted), but like I also said
that's your call. As for vastly decreasing upkeep costs...well this is a high-
performance engine, and I don't think you can achieve both a decrease in upkeep
and an increase in performance. If you up the performance, you're going to be
forcing the engine to work harder. Sure you've improved the engine, but have you
increased your stress load to the point that you're at or beyond the limits that
the new materials can handle. So I'd inversely link performance and upkeep in
this situation.

For example, let's use a base of 50% reduction in upkeep costs. For every 10%
increase in top speed you get, decrease upkeep reduction by x%. Find a value for
x that you like. Me, I'd make x much greater than 10. I also wouldn't limit him
to just trading away all of his upkeep reduction either. At some point he's going
to be wearing down the dikoted parts and replacing those will be expensive. Let
him get the performance he wants, but he's going to racking up stress on the
vehicle and breaking stuff. Always fun when your suped up get-away car throws a
rod as you're squealing away from the Star.

As for the handling improvements...not sure how much performance increase you're
going to see, but you'll definitely gain in the realm of upkeep. If you really
want to get a feel for what stronger materials will realistically let you do, I
suggest searching the 'net with google for information about F1 race cars.
Searching on NASCAR will probably turn up more, but you might find that they're
less interested in getting the most out of the suspension and other aspects of
handling relative to F1. My knowledge of suspension is limited to sticky tires
get better traction, but wear out faster and thicker, stronger sway bars let you
take corners better Either of which may be completely false: I know some about
how engines are designed, but very little about the suspension. Anyone with a
clue? :)
--
Walter Scheper
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 04:15:01 2002
> I'd say 20,000 seems low (only 10 'parts' being dikoted), but like I
also
> said
> that's your call.

Ok here's the catch, the cost for dikoting is 1000¥ per 100 square
centimeters (aka 1 square meter), 20,000¥ would be enough to dikote 20
square meters, I'm pretty sure that 20 square meters could be enough to
cover the cylinders, the piston heads, the valve heads, the bearings in
the engine, the crankshaft, the camshaft(s), the pushrods, rocker arms,
and the lifters, now for the rest of the bearings in the car I'm
planning another 20,000¥, once again, 20 square meters, that's a LOT of
space when you're talking bearings, now the transmission is a debatable
point that it'd benefit however we'll go on the assumption that it will
and impose another 5,000¥ for the transmission itself. Therefore we're
at a cost of 45,000¥ to dikote the entire powertrain of the vehicle,
this is one, very cost prohibitive for your regular runner, and two not
something that's done overnight and as you read, it only works on things
that can withstand the heat of being in the plasma stuff that actually
bonds the dikote chemical to the metal, this would be the entire
drivetrain as cars do heat up, especially when they're driven hard and
they're made not to break so they could take it but as I said it'd take
some major down time.

> As for vastly decreasing upkeep costs...well this is a
> high-
> performance engine, and I don't think you can achieve both a decrease
in
> upkeep
> and an increase in performance. If you up the performance, you're
going to
> be
> forcing the engine to work harder.

Ever heard of porting and polishing or balancing the engine? Doing these
two things add horsepower, and increase the actual redline of the
engine, this is what I'm implying that the dikoting of the bearings and
such would allow, a higher redline, which translates into a higher top
end, not increased acceleration but only a higher top speed and I’m not
meaning something large, I'm thinking about maybe an extra 50mph out of
it.

> Sure you've improved the engine, but
> have you
> increased your stress load to the point that you're at or beyond the
> limits that
> the new materials can handle.

Not at all....you wouldn't increase stress at all but rather decrease
it.

> So I'd inversely link performance and upkeep
> in
> this situation.
>
> For example, let's use a base of 50% reduction in upkeep costs. For
every
> 10%
> increase in top speed you get, decrease upkeep reduction by x%. Find a
> value for
> x that you like. Me, I'd make x much greater than 10. I also wouldn't
> limit him
> to just trading away all of his upkeep reduction either. At some point
> he's going
> to be wearing down the dikoted parts and replacing those will be
> expensive.

You don't drive a performance oriented car I'm assuming, race grade
parts are built to take the damage that hauling ass imparts. I'm not
implying that doing it would allow the person to drive the car any
harder but only get a few mph more out of it than previously possible,
you're not going to break it down any faster than you normally could
anything that's dikoted, and since it's dikote on dikote there's vastly
reduced friction and the parts that aren't dikoted will receive less
stress in their areas as well because of the reduced heat and better
balance and nature of the car's engine.

> Let
> him get the performance he wants, but he's going to racking up stress
on
> the
> vehicle and breaking stuff. Always fun when your suped up get-away car
> throws a
> rod as you're squealing away from the Star.

Ever seen The Fast and the Furious? In the end of the movie where
Diesel's in the charger, it breaks a rod and knocks a hole in the side
of the cylinder wall and STILL keeps going, unless you're unfortunate
enough to have it break and slam the piston through the bottom of the
head you'll be able to keep going, at reduced performance and putting
more and more damage onto the engine by doing so but you can do it.

> As for the handling improvements...not sure how much performance
increase
> you're
> going to see, but you'll definitely gain in the realm of upkeep. If
you
> really
> want to get a feel for what stronger materials will realistically let
you
> do, I
> suggest searching the 'net with google for information about F1 race
cars.
> Searching on NASCAR will probably turn up more, but you might find
that
> they're
> less interested in getting the most out of the suspension and other
> aspects of
> handling relative to F1. My knowledge of suspension is limited to
sticky
> tires
> get better traction, but wear out faster and thicker, stronger sway
bars
> let you
> take corners better Either of which may be completely false: I know
some
> about
> how engines are designed, but very little about the suspension. Anyone
> with a
> clue? :)

Umm, I've got a pretty good clue as I drag race whenever I get a chance,
I wasn't imparting the questions on the basis of reality, I'm imparting
them on the basis of standings of the rules of SR3 and how the rest of
the GM's in the list here actually would handle someone wanting to do
this. Especially if the player trying to do it knows performance cars
well enough to be able to give you convincing persuasion as to why he
wants to do it and how he'd go about getting it done. Regardless to
answer your question you're right for the most part that the bearings
and such wouldn't increase the lateral stability of the vehicle or the
ability to absorb rougher terrain and I wasn't implying that it would,
just making a statement that it would be something to consider as you'd
be dikoting much of the power steering elements as well and they'd flow
smoother, perhaps imposing a -1TN for handling tests. As I said earlier
the stronger parts don't break as easy, simple as that, they're made to
take the abuse and not break.
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 05:00:01 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Fri, 03 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> Ok here's the catch, the cost for dikoting is 1000¥ per 100 square
> centimeters (aka 1 square meter)

100 square centimeters is an area 10 cm long by 10 cm wide (or an
equivalent, like 5 cm x 20 cm, of course :) A square meter is 100 cm x 100
cm, or 10,000 square centimeters.

Suddenly makes dikoting a lot more expensive, doesn't it? :)

> 20,000¥ would be enough to dikote 20
> square meters, I'm pretty sure that 20 square meters could be enough to
> cover the cylinders, the piston heads, the valve heads, the bearings in
> the engine, the crankshaft, the camshaft(s), the pushrods, rocker arms,
> and the lifters

20 square meters would cover the outside of your entire car, and maybe all
of the insides, too :)

If you want to coat a piston, it's easy to work out how much is needed: say
your cylinders are 89.9x78.7 mm (the first value I came across when I
opened a car book -- for the record, these are from a 1997 Mercedes E200
convertible). That's a surface area of (8.99 cm / 2)^2 x pi = 63.5 cm^2.
Say each piston is 7.5 cm high, that's another 7.5 x 8.99 x pi = 212 cm^2
to coat the outside of the piston, for roughly 275 cm^2 per piston. That's
3,000 nuyen per cylinder (assuming dikoting is done in batches of 100
cm^2), or if you do all four pistons at once, 11,000 nuyen.

You can do much the same calculation for the other components involved. If
it's for SR, then just use the values for a car that seems right for
whatever SR vehicle you're working with.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steven Hadfield)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 06:35:01 2002
IMHO,

The problem you would run into dikoting
selected bits of cars would be that most of the
important bits will already have been coated. (At
least with high performance cars)

The huge gain in reliability alone from a long
lasting (if not permanent) lubricant in the moving
parts of the engine would be too much for a car
manufacturer to pass up on, especially as they could
dikote them for considerably less than list cost once
the process was set up.

You probably could get a performance boost if
you were renovating an older car (Pre Dikote) as
suggested in a previous post though.

Steve

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 13:15:01 2002
>
> 100 square centimeters is an area 10 cm long by 10 cm wide (or an
> equivalent, like 5 cm x 20 cm, of course :) A square meter is 100 cm x
100
> cm, or 10,000 square centimeters.
>
> Suddenly makes dikoting a lot more expensive, doesn't it? :)

Oops, my flawed metric conversion, see that's what happens when it's not
in standard...LOL


>
> > 20,000¥ would be enough to dikote 20
> > square meters, I'm pretty sure that 20 square meters could be enough
to
> > cover the cylinders, the piston heads, the valve heads, the bearings
in
> > the engine, the crankshaft, the camshaft(s), the pushrods, rocker
arms,
> > and the lifters
>
> 20 square meters would cover the outside of your entire car, and maybe
all
> of the insides, too :)
<Snip&Clip>
> That's
> 3,000 nuyen per cylinder (assuming dikoting is done in batches of 100
> cm^2), or if you do all four pistons at once, 11,000 nuyen.
>
> You can do much the same calculation for the other components
involved. If
> it's for SR, then just use the values for a car that seems right for
> whatever SR vehicle you're working with.
Yeah so se I wasn't really giving them THAT big of a break, only about
2,000¥ for the pistons & cylinders, and deciding that bearings would be
negligibly easy to do they tossed those in for a novelty thing because
they want to see how it turns out too
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 13:15:04 2002
> You probably could get a performance boost if
> you were renovating an older car (Pre Dikote) as
> suggested in a previous post though.

And since the whole thing started cause I'm trying to figure it out
cause one of the players is playing a Detroit motorhead who's making it
a point to find and restore any old musclecars that he can find I'd say
that it's dead on....oh yeah and you're forgetting, car companies don't
want cars to last forever and not break anymore, they're worried that if
your car doesn't break then you won't buy a different one just like
today.
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 13:55:01 2002
> I'm assuming he's
> doing this
> after character creation, so SI applies.

Oops big mistake there, Street Index ONLY applies if you're buying it on
the street, if you're a legitimate person and have a permit for what
you're doing and it's not illegal then you can get anything at standard
cost.

> I'm also assuming you can get
> only the
> areas you want coated.

Yes you can

> If you have to dikote the entire engine block, then
> you're
> talking way more than 20,000. Anyone want to calculate the surface
area of
> an
> engine to the nearest 100 cm^2? *grin*

umm.....no
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Fri May 3 20:50:01 2002
Steven Hadfield wrote:

> The huge gain in reliability alone from a long
> lasting (if not permanent) lubricant in the moving
> parts of the engine would be too much for a car
> manufacturer to pass up on, especially as they could
> dikote them for considerably less than list cost once
> the process was set up.

Except that manufacturers probably don't want long lasting service free
cars, despite their claims. Any car maker would want customers coming
in regularly for maintenance and repairs until they are fed up enough to
buy/lease a new car. They strike a balance between quality and
dependacy.

Although you are right about performance cars, at least the one of a
kind custom jobs. Also, after market, 3rd party parts makers might
offer dikoted parts. With a reasonable markup that is.

--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

I will hire a team of board-certified architects and surveyors
to examine my castle and inform me of any secret passages and
abandoned tunnels that I might not know about.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Sat May 4 00:25:01 2002
On Fri, 3 May 2002 00:59:56 -0500
"Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net> wrote:

> > I'd say 20,000 seems low (only 10 'parts' being dikoted), but like I
> also
> > said
> > that's your call.
>
> Ok here's the catch, the cost for dikoting is 1000¥ per 100 square
> centimeters (aka 1 square meter),

Nope :). A square meter is 10.000 square centimeters. That's a square
with 1 meter (100cm) sides: 100 x 100 = 10.000. 100 square centimeters
represent a square with 10cm sides. So, to apply Dikote on a whole
square meter, you'd need about 100.000¥.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Sat May 4 05:10:01 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Fri, 03 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> > If you have to dikote the entire engine block, then you're
> > talking way more than 20,000. Anyone want to calculate the surface
> > area of an engine to the nearest 100 cm^2? *grin*
>
> umm.....no

These are the sorts of things you fudge. Take its basic measurements and
work out the surface area of a simple block of that size, then add, say,
anywhere between, say, 50% and 200% (depending on the GM's mood :) for all
the little ridges, holes and bumps that will be on an engine block.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Sun May 5 15:15:01 2002
In article <3CD32F96.8E30E464@********.net>, Iridios
<iridios@********.net> writes
>Steven Hadfield wrote:
>> The huge gain in reliability alone from a long
>> lasting (if not permanent) lubricant in the moving
>> parts of the engine would be too much for a car
>> manufacturer to pass up on, especially as they could
>> dikote them for considerably less than list cost once
>> the process was set up.
>
>Except that manufacturers probably don't want long lasting service free
>cars, despite their claims.

What *they* want isn't that important. Try comparing a 1980 car to what
you can buy today and see how reliability is improved and service
intervals extended.

>Any car maker would want customers coming
>in regularly for maintenance and repairs until they are fed up enough to
>buy/lease a new car.

Depends how much they make from those repair jobs. What happens when
people get fed up and buy generic parts and do their own maintenance (as
I always did?)

You try to lure them back with "manufacturer's extended warranties" -
except now *you* carry the cost for unreliability.

>They strike a balance between quality and
>dependacy.

Which is decided by the customer (too expensive, you lose sales. Too
unreliable, you lose sales)
>

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Internal Combustion Engine and Dikote: Was Recoil
Date: Mon May 6 05:50:02 2002
>From: "Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net>
>Ok here's the catch, the cost for dikoting is 1000¥ per 100 square
>centimeters (aka 1 square meter), 20,000¥ would be enough to dikote 20
>square meters, I'm pretty sure that 20 square meters could be enough to
>cover the cylinders, the piston heads, the valve heads, the bearings in
>the engine, the crankshaft, the camshaft(s), the pushrods, rocker arms,
>and the lifters,

Only one problem, 100 square centimeters is not 1 square meter, 10,000
square centimeters = 1 square meter, that works out BTW at 100,000¥ per
square meter for dikoting, If you reckon on 20m^2 to do the entire of the
car you're charging 2 million nuyen (minus bulk purchase & haggling.)

>Ever heard of porting and polishing or balancing the engine? Doing >these
>two things add horsepower, and increase the actual redline of the
>engine, this is what I'm implying that the dikoting of the bearings and
>such would allow, a higher redline, which translates into a higher top
>end, not increased acceleration but only a higher top speed and I’m not
>meaning something large, I'm thinking about maybe an extra 50mph out of
>it.

The reduced friction in the bearings etc should also allow more of the
engine's developed torque to the wheels as less will be lost on overcoming
that friction, greater torque allows greater acceleration. However,
polishing is more to do with reducing turbulence in the gas flow (petrol &
air mix flow) than anything else, and I don't think Dikoting is going to
improve that much more than a good port grind.

Other than that, I think you got the makings of a good nine second car.

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