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Message no. 1
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Internet Opinions and Polls (was Re: What next? (Was Re: SR
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:53:59 -0400 (EDT)
At 06:28 PM 8/18/99 -0700, Rand Ratinac wrote these timeless words:

>> I really don't see Mike ever doing a strict
>> atmosphere book, considering his
>> opinions on Shadowbeat.
>> -Twist
>
>And as I keep saying, Twist, only by having a whole bunch of us tell
>him that we WANT something like that is his mind ever possibly going to
>change. :)
>
>Give it a go. Couldn't hurt.
>
Ok, time for a few opinions here, I suppose...

First off, "Internet Opinions" tend to be heavily skewed. i realize it's
not quite the same thing, but take for example the Internet Wrestling Fans.

On the net, 95+% of people think that Hogan, Ric Flair, and the other "old
Times" in WCW suck and should never wrestle again. And yet, they're
repatedly put on Television. And most of these Net Fans don't know why.
but the reason is simple: Net fans are a minority. The majority of
people who don;t read the net, the news items posted their daily, and don;t
know the behind the scenes stuff still go nuts for Hogan and Flair. They
don;t agree with the "Smarts" on the net.

Honestly, the same thing applies here.

Yes, the overall percentage of people who play SR and are on the net (and
are active in some way, whether it's the list, the IRC channels, or
whatever) is higher. BUT... I'd say we were pushing it if we assumed that
25% of Shadowrun players were this active. Pushing it big time. It's
probably more like 10-15%.

So what's that say? We're a minority opinion. On top of that, while
arguments and theories and the like that might convince those of us online
that "X-book needs published", that's STILL a minority opinion. And if our
little band of merry mischief makers can;t agree on what books should be
done and have a hard time getting a general consensus on what should and
shouldn;t be published...

The point of this is, I suppose, is this: Feel free to point out your
opinions and what you want to see in a Shadowrun product. Maybe everyone
feels the way you do. But unless you can convince a lot of people that
are, for the most part unreachable, and you're in the mminority, the fact
is what you're looking for won;t get published. Why? Cause it's not what
the general SR public is looking for.

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 2
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Internet Opinions and Polls (was Re: What next? (Was Re: SR
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:41:26 -0500
> >> I really don't see Mike ever doing a strict
> >> atmosphere book, considering his
> >> opinions on Shadowbeat.
> >> -Twist
> >
> >And as I keep saying, Twist, only by having a whole bunch of us tell
> >him that we WANT something like that is his mind ever possibly going to
> >change. :)
> >
> >Give it a go. Couldn't hurt.
> >
> Ok, time for a few opinions here, I suppose...
>
> First off, "Internet Opinions" tend to be heavily skewed. i realize it's
> not quite the same thing, but take for example the Internet Wrestling
> Fans.
>
> On the net, 95+% of people think that Hogan, Ric Flair, and the other "old
> Times" in WCW suck and should never wrestle again. And yet, they're
> repatedly put on Television. And most of these Net Fans don't know why.
> but the reason is simple: Net fans are a minority. The majority of
> people who don;t read the net, the news items posted their daily, and
> don;t
> know the behind the scenes stuff still go nuts for Hogan and Flair. They
> don;t agree with the "Smarts" on the net.
>
> Honestly, the same thing applies here.
>
> Yes, the overall percentage of people who play SR and are on the net (and
> are active in some way, whether it's the list, the IRC channels, or
> whatever) is higher. BUT... I'd say we were pushing it if we assumed
> that
> 25% of Shadowrun players were this active. Pushing it big time. It's
> probably more like 10-15%.
>
> So what's that say? We're a minority opinion. On top of that, while
> arguments and theories and the like that might convince those of us online
> that "X-book needs published", that's STILL a minority opinion. And if
> our
> little band of merry mischief makers can;t agree on what books should be
> done and have a hard time getting a general consensus on what should and
> shouldn;t be published...
>
> The point of this is, I suppose, is this: Feel free to point out your
> opinions and what you want to see in a Shadowrun product. Maybe everyone
> feels the way you do. But unless you can convince a lot of people that
> are, for the most part unreachable, and you're in the mminority, the fact
> is what you're looking for won;t get published. Why? Cause it's not what
> the general SR public is looking for.
>
We are a minority, and I agree with your numbers. However, you're leaving
out some variables. One, what are the percentage of people on this list who
pick up EVERY book? If a majority of people on this list are die-hard enough
to buy everything, then that ups our status in FASA's eyes. Two, what
demographic is SR aimed at? From what I've heard males, 16-25 (I could be
wrong). If there was a higher percentage of that demographic on this list,
as opposed to the general SR-buying public, it would also up our status in
FASA's eyes.

Now, I don't know what exactly our demographic is, or any other niceties.
These very things I mentioned could work against us as well. But you can't
just look at the numbers.

I don't think any of us expect that polls get it done. I've answered many
political polls only to have my opinions ignored at election day. That is
not the point of a poll. The point is to express one's opinion to have some
solidarity, or to see how badly you're outnumbered.

And besides, if the "proper" people answer (those who Jon, Steve, and others
respect their opinions), it might not make an atmosphere book come out, but
when these writers go to write the next book, they might throw in a little
more color if they see a need for it from those they respect.

But this is really arguing the point. Naysayers aside, vote for one or the
other, or don't vote at all.

And ultimately, we vote with our wallets.

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!