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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: John Chisum <jdc@***.NET>
Subject: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 06:04:45 PDT
Pondering time for all the GMs in the ole 'list....

There is a myriad of material on the web for Shadowrun these days.
Things like SWO Guns, NAGEE 1-6, NERPS series, Shadowlore, etc et al.
Do GMs use this material (no flames please) and how does a GM introduce
such material to a group? Also, does anyone make use of the modules that
can be found on the internet? What are your thoughts on what is out on the
'net for SR?
I've been on the net for close to two years and have most of the
major non-FASA stuff either on the hard drive or printed and put into three
ring binders (28 1-inch binders in total as of this morning). I hit the
major SR
pages on a weekly basis looking for new stuff to pop on my groups.
There are three Shadowrun groups here in Amarillo, Tx. that I either
GM full time or co-GM. I do use the materials found on the net a lot. For
the
most part, I have't ran into too much crap out there. I hit Plastic
Warriors,
SWO, Blackjacks and The Shadowrun Archive for most of the internet
material that is used in the local groups.
BTW: Gurth (just gotta ask this): is the an Edgerunners II planned?
Loved the first one and my groups have met several of the people in there...
in particular one Freddy Frypp while they were in San Fransico. Also,
they've
met Steve Lewis.

-John

PS - And yes...I do have a job! I work in radio durring the day and
Shadowrun
at least twice a week. :>

Damn! The maid moved my assult cannon and body armor again...
Message no. 2
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:20:32 +1000
> There is a myriad of material on the web for Shadowrun these days.
> Things like SWO Guns, NAGEE 1-6, NERPS series, Shadowlore, etc et al.
> Do GMs use this material (no flames please) and how does a GM introduce
> such material to a group? Also, does anyone make use of the modules that
> can be found on the internet? What are your thoughts on what is out on the
> 'net for SR?

The following is not intended to cause any offense to the authors or
users of that material:

We found that a lot of the net material was unusable in our games due to
problems of balance. (The Remmy Wristbreaker comes to mind...
fully-auto shotgun. MUMMY!)

What we're in the process of doing is SLOWWWWWLY going through all the
net material we've gathered and editing it into a small document of the
stuff we feel is most useful - we being Bleach and I. We'll then give
the document to the rest of the group so we can all use it as a group
supplement, instead of having to get approval from the GMs for each
non-canon piece of equipment separately.


Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 17:38:14 -0500
>> There is a myriad of material on the web for Shadowrun these days.
>> Things like SWO Guns, NAGEE 1-6, NERPS series, Shadowlore, etc et al.
>> Do GMs use this material (no flames please) and how does a GM introduce
>> such material to a group? Also, does anyone make use of the modules that
>> can be found on the internet? What are your thoughts on what is out on the
>> 'net for SR?
>We found that a lot of the net material was unusable in our games due to
>problems of balance. (The Remmy Wristbreaker comes to mind...
>fully-auto shotgun. MUMMY!)

One of the things I intend to do with my Shadowrun Central Website is
provide a rating system for net SR resources....

Unfortnatly, there are a few factors against me: lack of time, lack of
resources, no rating system, and no way to be sure that it's a GOOD rating
system.

Time will be fixed soon (5 more weeks of classes!), and I'll probably start
grabbing stuff off Paolo's Site. (contacting the authors, natch)

As for a rating system, I was thinking of a 5 or 10 point scale in a few
catagories:

Power
Balance
Concept

Power being how strong the item is
Balance being whether the item has equal disadvantages. For example, the
Ruger Thunderbolt has low balance, but far less power than the Panther Cannon.
Concept: How "true" the thing is to the "pure" SR concept given in the
books. Simple things like headset radios would get high Concept points,
while NegaMages would have lower ratings.

What do you think?

Also, how should I get the ratings for items? I could rate everything
myself, but then it's all MY opinion. I could set up a voting system, but
then we trust the masses....:)

Ideas?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:11:10 +1000
> >We found that a lot of the net material was unusable in our games due to
> >problems of balance. (The Remmy Wristbreaker comes to mind...
> >fully-auto shotgun. MUMMY!)
>
> One of the things I intend to do with my Shadowrun Central Website is
> provide a rating system for net SR resources....
>
[snip]

> Also, how should I get the ratings for items? I could rate everything
> myself, but then it's all MY opinion. I could set up a voting system, but
> then we trust the masses....:)
>

It's a good idea.... assuming you can somehow find a balance that pleases
everybody, it'll be very popular. I've been thinking about doing that
kind of thing for a while, too.... The same kind of things have stopped me.

If you let other people vote on the items, you can concievably have a lot
of trouble keeping the rewiew up-to-date. Just leave it as your opinion,
and hope that suffices.

On the subject of reviews, you should probably also make a small text
rewiew, possibly by site, to help browsers find what they're looking
for.

Good luck; it's a big job.

Bleach
Message no. 5
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:43:26 -0700
> From: John Chisum <jdc@***.NET>
> Do GMs use this material

Yep..

>... and how does a GM introduce such material to a group?

Usually used against them..[G]..And then found on a body...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:20:42 +0100
John Chisum said on 6:04/ 6 Apr 97...

> There is a myriad of material on the web for Shadowrun these days.
> Things like SWO Guns, NAGEE 1-6, NERPS series, Shadowlore, etc et al.
> Do GMs use this material (no flames please)

I allow players just about everything I pulled off the net or put onto it
myself. From what people have told me about the Plastic Warrior series,
those get used a lot too; I don't know about other stuff though, but I
suspect it's much the same.

> how does a GM introduce such material to a group?

I show them the printed-out stuff and if they want to use it, they're free
to it. As a rationalisation, you could say it's sort of like when you walk
into a store you've never been to before and discover that they sell
things you hadn't heard of before.

> Also, does anyone make use of the modules that can be found on the
> internet? What are your thoughts on what is out on the 'net for SR?

I haven't run any modules I found on the net just yet, but I may do so in
the future.

> BTW: Gurth (just gotta ask this): is the an Edgerunners II planned?

Not that I know of. Edge Runners was originally a project by Erik
"Whistler" Jameson (the one-time list.member.grumpy for those like me who
still remember that :) in late 1994, that was slightly added to and
re-edited by the NERPS list in early 1996. Erik was planning on making an
ERII in '95 but it never came off the ground. As for a NERPS: Edge Runners
II, I don't think so just yet. We're still doing nothing on the Neo-A
Guide To The World, and I'd like to finish that first...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In my mind all the time.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:15:25 +0100
Brett Borger said on 17:38/ 6 Apr 97...

> One of the things I intend to do with my Shadowrun Central Website is
> provide a rating system for net SR resources....

That would be a cool idea.

> As for a rating system, I was thinking of a 5 or 10 point scale in a few
> catagories:
>
> Power
> Balance
> Concept
>
> Power being how strong the item is
> Balance being whether the item has equal disadvantages. For example, the
> Ruger Thunderbolt has low balance, but far less power than the Panther Cannon.
> Concept: How "true" the thing is to the "pure" SR concept given
in the
> books. Simple things like headset radios would get high Concept points,
> while NegaMages would have lower ratings.

Maybe you could add an Originality rating? Things almost directly based
off of existing stuff should have a low rating here, while things that
have no real equivalents in SR material (official or from the net) could
get a high rating. For example, a typical heavy pistol would be low, while
a totally new type of spirit could be high.

> Also, how should I get the ratings for items? I could rate everything
> myself, but then it's all MY opinion. I could set up a voting system, but
> then we trust the masses....:)

That's always a problem with rating systems for things that are hard to
qualify. No matter what system you'll use, it'll always end up being
someone's opinion. I think you'd best use your own judgement, and if you
get feedback about an item's rating, take that into account and
re-evaluate it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In my mind all the time.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: John Chisum <jdc@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 05:51:21 PDT
> I show them the printed-out stuff and if they want to use it, they're free
> to it. As a rationalisation, you could say it's sort of like when you walk
> into a store you've never been to before and discover that they sell
> things you hadn't heard of before.

That's the same thing that I do, pretty much. I do some edting
(like adding legal codes) to some of the items. For the most part, Plastic
Warriors and the SWO Guns have worked real well and added to the
game. Some items are resticted and banned, but not much.
On the module front, the is one that I have found that is good
for breaking in new players or GMs. It's called "The Front" and I'm not
sure if it is on the SR Archive or on Blackjacks page. You can set up
several "teaching" runs out of it. Haven't messed with much else.

> > BTW: Gurth (just gotta ask this): is the an Edgerunners II planned?
> Not that I know of...<snip, snip>
Well, hopefully it will one day, but your right, the World Project
is first...and I'm waiting in excitement!

-John
Damn! The maid moved my assult cannon
and body armor again...
Message no. 9
From: John Chisum <jdc@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 06:01:33 PDT
> One of the things I intend to do with my Shadowrun Central Website is
> provide a rating system for net SR resources....
> Unfortnatly, there are a few factors against me: lack of time, lack of
> resources, no rating system, and no way to be sure that it's a GOOD rating
> system.
> As for a rating system, I was thinking of a 5 or 10 point scale in a few
> catagories:
>
> Power
> Balance
> Concept
>
> What do you think?
>
It's a good concept, but it wil be hard to execute by yourself. I'd
get a few other people to help review and rate things. The choice of Power
Balance and Concept would be good. What about a rating system for
modules and othe equipment?
And yes....I'd be willing to help out.


-John
Damn! The maid moved my assult cannon
and body armor again...
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:46:02 GMT
Gurth writes
>
> I allow players just about everything I pulled off the net or put onto it
> myself. From what people have told me about the Plastic Warrior series,
> those get used a lot too; I don't know about other stuff though, but I
> suspect it's much the same.
>
I have been supplying this stuff to players, generally i rate
anything from NERPS and a few other sources as ok, but read it first.
I have found one or two things in Shadowland i have been forced to ban
but. Usage is limited by my supply of one printout copy of each file.

> > BTW: Gurth (just gotta ask this): is the an Edgerunners II planned?
>
> Not that I know of. Edge Runners was originally a project by Erik
> "Whistler" Jameson (the one-time list.member.grumpy for those like me who
> still remember that :) in late 1994, that was slightly added to and
> re-edited by the NERPS list in early 1996. Erik was planning on making an
> ERII in '95 but it never came off the ground. As for a NERPS: Edge Runners
> II, I don't think so just yet. We're still doing nothing on the Neo-A
> Guide To The World, and I'd like to finish that first...
>
A version 2 of this is something i consider a good idea, but Gurth is
correct in saying let NEPRS finish NAGTTW first before the list does
anything about it.
Any more on Shadowlore 2???? It's now about 2 years since the NERPS
dragons and other paranormals deadline and still no sign.

Mark
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:49:12 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 8:46/10 Apr 97...

> Any more on Shadowlore 2???? It's now about 2 years since the NERPS
> dragons and other paranormals deadline and still no sign.

We had a small discussion about this on NERPS a few weeks ago, if you
remember. Fro had contacted JD about it, but he seems to have lost his
partially-finished copy of SL2.

I think I'll try and download the logs for early '95 next week, and sort
through them for the actual posted articles, then work those into
ShadowLore II (sorry Adam, I think I'd like to do this myself after
all...).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Put yourself in my shoes and picture if you can.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:24:06 GMT
Gurth writes

> Mark Steedman said on 8:46/10 Apr 97...
>
> > Any more on Shadowlore 2???? It's now about 2 years since the NERPS
> > dragons and other paranormals deadline and still no sign.
>
> We had a small discussion about this on NERPS a few weeks ago, if you
> remember.
Yes but it all went quiet so i was checking on things as you gave me
an excuse.

> Fro had contacted JD about it, but he seems to have lost his
> partially-finished copy of SL2.
>
oh.

> I think I'll try and download the logs for early '95 next week, and sort
> through them for the actual posted articles, then work those into
> ShadowLore II (sorry Adam, I think I'd like to do this myself after
> all...).
>
Good luck, i look forward to the result though you are taking on a
lot of work here.

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:36:14 +0100
|
|Mark Steedman said on 8:46/10 Apr 97...
|
|> Any more on Shadowlore 2???? It's now about 2 years since the NERPS
|> dragons and other paranormals deadline and still no sign.
|
|We had a small discussion about this on NERPS a few weeks ago, if you
|remember. Fro had contacted JD about it, but he seems to have lost his
|partially-finished copy of SL2.

Oh NO!!!

If Fro's been in contact with JD.....

Then that could mean.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:57:55 +0000
On 10 Apr 97 at 18:36, Spike wrote:

> Oh NO!!!
>
> If Fro's been in contact with JD.....
>
> Then that could mean.....

Stop it, Spike, your scaring me.

#@&%*===========================================================*%&@#
# DREKHEAD - drekhead@***.net, drekhead@***.com - Tim Kerby #
#@&%*===========================================================*%&@#
#@&%*===========================================================*%&@#
# --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html --- #
#@&%*===========================================================*%&@#
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
Message no. 15
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:58:55 -0600
At 11:49 4/10/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Mark Steedman said on 8:46/10 Apr 97...
>
>> Any more on Shadowlore 2???? It's now about 2 years since the NERPS
>> dragons and other paranormals deadline and still no sign.
>
>We had a small discussion about this on NERPS a few weeks ago, if you
>remember. Fro had contacted JD about it, but he seems to have lost his
>partially-finished copy of SL2.

Or just not gotten around to mailing them to me. I'll forward them to you
if he does pull through.

>I think I'll try and download the logs for early '95 next week, and sort
>through them for the actual posted articles, then work those into
>ShadowLore II (sorry Adam, I think I'd like to do this myself after
>all...).

Fine, be that way, Mr..Mr..argh.. I can't bring myself to say it :)
Did you just get a sudden infusion of extra time, or what?:)

-Adam
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:02:14 +0100
Adam J said on 13:58/10 Apr 97...

> Or just not gotten around to mailing them to me. I'll forward them to you
> if he does pull through.

Okay, the way I understood it from you, he couldn't find them anymore.

> >ShadowLore II (sorry Adam, I think I'd like to do this myself after
> >all...).
>
> Fine, be that way, Mr..Mr..argh.. I can't bring myself to say it :)
> Did you just get a sudden infusion of extra time, or what?:)

As of next week, I should have...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Creativiteit in de handen van ambtenaren is zoiets
als een staaf dynamiet in een kinderknuistje.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:02:13 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 11:24/10 Apr 97...

> Yes but it all went quiet so i was checking on things as you gave me
> an excuse.

Do you need an excuse, then? :)

> > I think I'll try and download the logs for early '95 next week, and sort
> > through them for the actual posted articles, then work those into
> > ShadowLore II (sorry Adam, I think I'd like to do this myself after
> > all...).
> >
> Good luck, i look forward to the result though you are taking on a
> lot of work here.

I was browsing through the logs a bit yesterday (wrote myself a handy
log-reader to make it a bit easier) and it looks to me like it shouldn't
be too hard to find the submissions, thanks to Hayden and JD's neat
organization with author-ID#s and all that stuff I've chucked out the
window :) Starting at the back, I should get the latest copies of each
article easily enough.

Once I've got those articles together, it should be just as much work as
editing any other NERPS project.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Creativiteit in de handen van ambtenaren is zoiets
als een staaf dynamiet in een kinderknuistje.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 18
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:45:11 GMT
Gurth writes
>
> Do you need an excuse, then? :)
>
No :), finds carp shooter :)

> I was browsing through the logs a bit yesterday (wrote myself a handy
> log-reader to make it a bit easier) and it looks to me like it shouldn't
> be too hard to find the submissions, thanks to Hayden and JD's neat
> organization with author-ID#s and all that stuff I've chucked out the
> window :) Starting at the back, I should get the latest copies of each
> article easily enough.
>
Good, hope to see the results.

> Once I've got those articles together, it should be just as much work as
> editing any other NERPS project.
>
ie a fair amount.
Must read TSS02 this weekend as well. And i probably ought to get
around to typing up more of the stuff i've done sometime.

Mark
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Internet Resources for Shadowrun
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:25:53 +0100
Mark Steedman said on 12:45/11 Apr 97...

[NERPS: ShadowLore II]
> Good, hope to see the results.

I was thinking of also adding Shadows Of The Mind into it. I've had that
text file sitting on my HD for ages now, and even though hardly anything
of it has really been finished, it might be a good idea to include it in
the same book as ShadowLore II.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Creativiteit in de handen van ambtenaren is zoiets
als een staaf dynamiet in een kinderknuistje.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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