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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 05:10:01 2001
Hoi chummers! This is my first post to ShadowRN, at least since my old
Amiga 500 days. Until recently, I've never played Shadowrun, even though
I've been collecting the books since it came out way back in the age of the
5th World, and I have quite a few of them (basically ALL of them except most
of the modules ... I don't DO modules for the most part, again, memory
problem), and read them ... when they came out, for the most part. *blush* I
have THE worst memory, just warning y'all. I'm in the Denver area, if any of
you wanna get some runs in, I'm willing and able! Now, within the last
couple of months I got my gaming group (one of them) to try Shadowrun and
they love it. Now I've met some new gamers since then, and have gotten a few
of them into it too, though they're created characters, we haven't been able
to play yet. I even found a SR3 book for only $15, in great shape! I bought
it for them to help them 'get' the game better.
Hmm, can't think of any other info. Is that enough

OK, to the questions:

1) Now, my friend that I mention above who I bought SR3 from (he is
interested in SR because of the Sega Genesis game, BTW), made a very
interesting character. He's a scholar, a wealthy elf who collects
information, basically a decker, I suppose. He's got a high lifestyle, and
started (how'd you guess) with a million ¥ resources (created using the
Companion's Building Points system). Anyways, he is quite the noncombatant,
and with his background, decided he definitely should have a bodyguard. I
really like the idea. How to implement it is another story...
Now, what I had him do is buy him as a lvl 3 Contact, ie. 200,000¥. At
first we were thinking of letting him play him as a PC, but we ultimately
decided against that. Instead I'll run him as an NPC.
OK, so, here's what I did. I wrote him up just like a PC, 123 building
points. At first I was gonna make him based on the "Freelance Executive
Protection Specialist (Troll)" from the Corporate Security Handbook. But
then, I thought, we already have some PCs who're pretty wired-up in the
game, and I didn't wanna step on their toes, so, I asked him, what did he
think about having an Awakened bodyguard? I told him his charcater would
certainly know the type of talent he was hiring, and he liked the idea, as
long as he was a troll (he liked the idea of this big, nicely dressed goon,
guarding him). At first, I was going to make the bodyguard some type of
magician, but I'm really not 'up' on my knowledge of hermetic magery, and I
couldn't find a totem that I liked for him (I liked Dog but a bodyguard has
got to be flexible (Dog doesn't like to change his mind), and I also like
Bear but that berserker behaviour doesn't fit the bill either). Finally, I
noticed the "Executive Protection Adept" in CorpSec, and the wheels started
spinning, and anyways, I came up with "Bartholomew Edwards - Freelance
Executive Protection Adept", a Troll Physical Adept who specializes in
unarmed combat, and his pistol usually gathers dust (Distance Strike). I had
a lot of fun writing him up. Heh, I even gave him some amusing Flaws,
including Day Job (full time) so I could have adventures when he won't be
around to guard the elf's hoop. He's also got a phobia about Rats
(moderate), which I plan to exploit, heh. So, to clarify, these are my
questions:
a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC, even
one who'll be in most of the adventures?
b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?
c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind you,
my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them nearly
all the time before.
d) Suggestions!!!

2) A query related to the above, in 2nd Edition's Companion, there was an
Edge that gave extra Spell Points. I noticed that's been removed, which I
assume the Powers That Be determined it was too powerful. True? However, if
so, I take that with a grain of salt since I don't agree with a lot of the
point cost increases of many Edges. So, my question: Does there now exist an
Edge that gives magicians more starting Spell Points? Also, is there one
that gives PhysAds additional Power Points? Can you use the former to
fulfill the latter?

3) OK, I'm sure this has been discussed some time before, but I couldn't
find it. Skillsoft costs. In SR3's p. 296, it has a chart with static costs
no matter what the Rating of the skillsoft, and listed as "base price", and
yet the text directs you to p. 304. Now on p. 304, the Rating of the
skillsoft DOES affect its cost! So, which is it? Does a lvl4 Activesoft cost
4800¥, or 9600¥? Or, am I missing some blending of the two charts?
Personally, I tend towards the one on p. 304, but then, I'm wondering what
the chart on p. 296 is for, anyways. I want the "official" answer anyhoo.

4) Anyone know of a program that will automatically, or perhaps with a
hotkey, generate an appropriately timestamped Shadowrun .sig? Preferably 1st
or early 2nd edition format, as I don't care for the newer format. It
doesn't have as much character. I'm a Windows (ME, ugh) user, and I'd like a
program that could input the .sig into any text document, from Outlook
Express emails to text files and documents for player handouts or even
stories.

5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that Dunklezahn
isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...

Woah!!! I did NOT mean to type that much. Scout's Honor! So sorry, and
I'll try to restrict my verbiage in the future. Thank you all for you time
and I look forward to many bountiful discussions.

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 05:40:01 2001
According to Wally the Intrepid, on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 the word on the street was...

> Hoi chummers! This is my first post to ShadowRN, at least since my old
> Amiga 500 days.

With that name, I first figured Jani had returned, but this comment seems
to rule that out (unless I'm completely mistaken, of course, in which case,
let me know :)

> 1) Now, my friend that I mention above who I bought SR3 from (he is
> interested in SR because of the Sega Genesis game, BTW), made a very
> interesting character. He's a scholar, a wealthy elf who collects
> information, basically a decker, I suppose. He's got a high lifestyle, and
> started (how'd you guess) with a million ¥ resources (created using the
> Companion's Building Points system). Anyways, he is quite the noncombatant,
> and with his background, decided he definitely should have a bodyguard. I
> really like the idea. How to implement it is another story...
[snip]
> d) Suggestions!!!

How about having one of the other PCs be the bodyguard? This could work
very well, because it gives a good reason for the two PCs to be working
together, and avoids the problem of introducing what's basically a
GM-controlled PC into the game.

> 2) A query related to the above, in 2nd Edition's Companion, there was an
> Edge that gave extra Spell Points. I noticed that's been removed, which I
> assume the Powers That Be determined it was too powerful. True?

They probably only wanted you to get extra spell points by spending 25,000
nuyen per point, just like for magicians made with the standard chargen
rules. The immediate problem I see with making it an edge is that there's a
real problem equating edge values to nuyen, since the money scale isn't
linear.

> Does there now exist an Edge that gives magicians more starting Spell
> Points? Also, is there one that gives PhysAds additional Power Points?
> Can you use the former to fulfill the latter?

The answer is "No" to all three questions, AFAIK.

> 3) OK, I'm sure this has been discussed some time before, but I couldn't
> find it. Skillsoft costs. In SR3's p. 296, it has a chart with static costs
> no matter what the Rating of the skillsoft, and listed as "base price", and
> yet the text directs you to p. 304. Now on p. 304, the Rating of the
> skillsoft DOES affect its cost! So, which is it?

I think someone forgot what they intended to do here, because although the
rules fit for activesofts, they don't for knowsofts. FWIW, I've always used
the rules that activesofts cost their size x 100 nuyen regardless of the
rating (because that's figured into the size anyway).

> 4) Anyone know of a program that will automatically, or perhaps with a
> hotkey, generate an appropriately timestamped Shadowrun .sig? Preferably 1st
> or early 2nd edition format, as I don't care for the newer format. It
> doesn't have as much character. I'm a Windows (ME, ugh) user, and I'd like a
> program that could input the .sig into any text document, from Outlook
> Express emails to text files and documents for player handouts or even
> stories.

I don't have such a program, but it shouldn't be hard to write. As I
understand it, you want a Windows program that automatically generates the
following sequence:

-name (current time/current date)

right? Or do you also want the >>>>>[ ]<<<<< brackets
included somehow?

> 5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that Dunklezahn
> isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
> purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...

Read the Dragonheart Trilogy for an answer to that one.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Conformity is our tragedy
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Thorger_SÃŒnert)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 06:25:01 2001
> From: "Wally the Intrepid" <stormknight@*********.net>
[Snip Intro]
> OK, to the questions:
>
> 1) Now, my friend that I mention above who I bought SR3 from (he is
> interested in SR because of the Sega Genesis game, BTW), made a very
> interesting character. He's a scholar, a wealthy elf who collects
> information, basically a decker, I suppose. He's got a high lifestyle, and
> started (how'd you guess) with a million ¥ resources (created using the
> Companion's Building Points system). Anyways, he is quite the
noncombatant,
> and with his background, decided he definitely should have a bodyguard. I
> really like the idea. How to implement it is another story...
> Now, what I had him do is buy him as a lvl 3 Contact, ie. 200,000¥. At
> first we were thinking of letting him play him as a PC, but we ultimately
> decided against that. Instead I'll run him as an NPC.
> OK, so, here's what I did. I wrote him up just like a PC, 123 building
> points. At first I was gonna make him based on the "Freelance Executive
> Protection Specialist (Troll)" from the Corporate Security Handbook. But
> then, I thought, we already have some PCs who're pretty wired-up in the
> game, and I didn't wanna step on their toes, so, I asked him, what did he
> think about having an Awakened bodyguard? I told him his charcater would
> certainly know the type of talent he was hiring, and he liked the idea, as
> long as he was a troll (he liked the idea of this big, nicely dressed
goon,
> guarding him). At first, I was going to make the bodyguard some type of
> magician, but I'm really not 'up' on my knowledge of hermetic magery, and
I
> couldn't find a totem that I liked for him (I liked Dog but a bodyguard
has
> got to be flexible (Dog doesn't like to change his mind), and I also like
> Bear but that berserker behaviour doesn't fit the bill either). Finally, I
> noticed the "Executive Protection Adept" in CorpSec, and the wheels
started
> spinning, and anyways, I came up with "Bartholomew Edwards - Freelance
> Executive Protection Adept", a Troll Physical Adept who specializes in
> unarmed combat, and his pistol usually gathers dust (Distance Strike). I
had
> a lot of fun writing him up. Heh, I even gave him some amusing Flaws,
> including Day Job (full time) so I could have adventures when he won't be
> around to guard the elf's hoop. He's also got a phobia about Rats
> (moderate), which I plan to exploit, heh. So, to clarify, these are my
> questions:
> a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC, even
> one who'll be in most of the adventures?

Your are the Storyteller, you can make him with 200 or 20 buildpoints with
you want, but if he has to be on par with the pc it is not a bad idea to
create him with 123 buil points.

> b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?

The cost is correct

> c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
> otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind you,
> my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them
nearly
> all the time before.

Really don't know, be carefull that you don't use or see the bodyguard as
our own char, that the worst what can happen, In a pinch place him in the
background and DON'T us him as a way to solve problems the pc have.

> d) Suggestions!!!

For runs ?

> 2) A query related to the above, in 2nd Edition's Companion, there was an
> Edge that gave extra Spell Points. I noticed that's been removed, which I
> assume the Powers That Be determined it was too powerful. True? However,
if
> so, I take that with a grain of salt since I don't agree with a lot of the
> point cost increases of many Edges. So, my question: Does there now exist
an
> Edge that gives magicians more starting Spell Points? Also, is there one
> that gives PhysAds additional Power Points? Can you use the former to
> fulfill the latter?

You can buy extra spellpoints for 5.000 per spellpoints and if you allow it
chars can use spellpoints to initate, create ally spirits, bind foci,....

> 3) OK, I'm sure this has been discussed some time before, but I couldn't
> find it. Skillsoft costs. In SR3's p. 296, it has a chart with static
costs
> no matter what the Rating of the skillsoft, and listed as "base price",
and
> yet the text directs you to p. 304. Now on p. 304, the Rating of the
> skillsoft DOES affect its cost! So, which is it? Does a lvl4 Activesoft
cost
> 4800¥, or 9600¥? Or, am I missing some blending of the two charts?
> Personally, I tend towards the one on p. 304, but then, I'm wondering what
> the chart on p. 296 is for, anyways. I want the "official" answer anyhoo.

I would say there is a difference between programs ( page 304 ) and
skillsofts ( page 296 ) and would use page 296 to decide how much a
skillsoft would cost.

> 4) Anyone know of a program that will automatically, or perhaps with a
> hotkey, generate an appropriately timestamped Shadowrun .sig? Preferably
1st
> or early 2nd edition format, as I don't care for the newer format. It
> doesn't have as much character. I'm a Windows (ME, ugh) user, and I'd like
a
> program that could input the .sig into any text document, from Outlook
> Express emails to text files and documents for player handouts or even
> stories.

No

> 5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that Dunklezahn
> isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
> purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...

read the dragon heart triology ( spelling ?)

> Woah!!! I did NOT mean to type that much. Scout's Honor! So sorry, and
> I'll try to restrict my verbiage in the future. Thank you all for you time
> and I look forward to many bountiful discussions.

Have fun
--
> Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
> Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 06:35:00 2001
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:16:40 -0600 "Wally the Intrepid"
<stormknight@*********.net> writes:
<SNIP>
> 3) OK, I'm sure this has been discussed some time before, but I
> couldn't
> find it. Skillsoft costs. In SR3's p. 296, it has a chart with
> static costs
> no matter what the Rating of the skillsoft, and listed as "base
> price", and
> yet the text directs you to p. 304. Now on p. 304, the Rating of the
> skillsoft DOES affect its cost! So, which is it? Does a lvl4
> Activesoft cost
> 4800¥, or 9600¥? Or, am I missing some blending of the two charts?
> Personally, I tend towards the one on p. 304, but then, I'm
> wondering what
> the chart on p. 296 is for, anyways. I want the "official" answer
> anyhoo.

Erratta changes the page reference to 223. However, notice that the MP
size of a skillsoft is based on the rating squared times 2 or 3.
Therefore, the cost is dependant on the rating.

<SNIP>
> 5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that
> Dunklezahn
> isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
> purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...
<SNIP>

Nah. He wouldn't of dispersed his hoard if wasn't dead as a doornail. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Matt Breton)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 11:20:01 2001
>1) Now, my friend that I mention ... he is quite the noncombatant,
>and with his background, decided he definitely should have a
>bodyguard. I really like the idea. How to implement it is another >story...

> a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC,
> >even one who'll be in most of the adventures?
> b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?
> c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise >and
>otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, >mind you,
>my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been >with them
>nearly all the time before.

a, b) If you decided it was correct, it was correct. You might have a
problem if other players bought similar level contacts; you may end up with
a shadowrunning group that's half NPCs. (This is called pillowing:
basically, the players hope the NPCs are the ones that catch the sniper
bullets, not themselves.)

In the past, I've let players have contacts for free, if they developed
their backgrounds enough. Ask the player with the "scholar" to write a
history for both. Remember that the two characters are different people;
they'll have different outlooks, different goals in life.

c) This I see as the real issue. A few people mentioned letting another
player control the bodyguard. Another option is to allow the player to
control both characters. The problem with this, again, is that they really
should act like two different people, and when two characters are controlled
by the same player, they tend to "blend" -- to the point where one may make
out-of-character efforts to help the other. ("Bob realizes Mike is 50,000
nuyen short on the killer cyberdeck he wants to build, so Bob will go down
to the cyberdoc and sell both of his kidneys.") It sounds like things are
in control, though.

Another option -- really just a variant on the above -- is to have the
player alternate characters each gaming session. Not, "Okay, this is the
Matrix session, so I'm using Mike," (although that's a possibility too) but,
regardless of where the emphasis may fall, switching between the two
characters, and allowing the other one to be controlled by you. This more
or less forces the player to keep both character's perspectives in mind when
making gaming decisions. (You might want to use this as a fallback, in case
things do slip out of hand.)


-- Matt
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 11:40:01 2001
Wally the Intrepid writes:

> Hoi chummers! This is my first post to ShadowRN, at least since my old
> Amiga 500 days.

Hi there! And welcome back! I'm glad that you could find us again :-).

> a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC, even
> one who'll be in most of the adventures?
> b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?

Both of these sound reasonable. The bodyguard needs to be able to have a
decent chance of protecting his client, so he should be of a power level
that is commensurate with that which his client shall be facing. Since his
client was built using 123 points, then the opposition will be geared to be
realatively equally matched for a 123 point character.

> c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
> otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind you,
> my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them nearly
> all the time before.

Remember, he's a _contracted_bodyguard_, not an additional shadowrunning
team member. Keeping that in mind should avoid most problems, I would
think. He'll act to keep his client out of danger, which could be really
interesting during the planning stages of a run ... "No, my client will not
'run across the clearing shielding his head with his cyberdeck' while
Bulletshower and Rampage keep the guards heads down with automatic weapons
fire" ... Also, if he's a legally hired bodguard, shadowrunning at all might
pose problems. So I am assuming that he's a nonlegal bodyguard :-). During
a run, all he'll do is keep his and his clients heads down, ensure that
things aren't going from bad to worse, and tell other team members that
they're endangering his clients life. It could be quite a lot of fun :-).

> <Spell Points>

There is no such edge anymore, you have to get additional spell points using
nuyen, at 25,000 per point. A common optional rule is to allow spell points
to be treated like karma for the purposes of initiation, ally summoning,
Adept power point purchasing, etc.

> 4) Anyone know of a program that will automatically, or perhaps with a
> hotkey, generate an appropriately timestamped Shadowrun .sig? Preferably 1st
> or early 2nd edition format, as I don't care for the newer format. It
> doesn't have as much character. I'm a Windows (ME, ugh) user, and I'd like a
> program that could input the .sig into any text document, from Outlook
> Express emails to text files and documents for player handouts or even
> stories.

Take a look at BlackJack's site on Dumpshock. He's got two or three
programs that do something akin to this.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a24 C++ US++>+++ P+ L++>+++ E- W+>++ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@
M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Achille Autran)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 16:25:00 2001
>From: "Wally the Intrepid" <stormknight@*********.net>
>
>1) <SNIP>
> a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC, even
>one who'll be in most of the adventures?

Seems quite a good to me to create an "equal" NPC.

> b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?

I would also charge him with an upkeep, maybe part of the scholar's
lifestyle. Even though he is a close friend, magically aware security
specialists aren't cheap... If you use the "contact upkeep" rules, be sure
to enforce them, and make sure that the player doesn't abuse the "your
friend will help you whatsoever" side of of level 3 contact. He does look
like a sensible player though, so you probably won't have that kind of problem.

> c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
>otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind you,
>my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them nearly
>all the time before.

Keep the bodyguard in his bodyguard role. His first steps when the lead
will start to fly will be to make sure that the scholar is safe and
undercover. Let the PC set up the strategy and handle proactive action.
Once the scholar is safe, Barth' will be able to follow the other's PC
strategy, and otherwise, he will mostly be watching for any direct threat
to his client.
For non-combat situation, you can use him as a "reason's voice" if you feel
that your players are setting up something /really/ stupid. Or provide a
crucial contact when all tracks have dried up. Just take care to not
overuse this, as seeing an NPC doing all the job is /quite/ upsetting for
the players.

> d) Suggestions!!!

Well, you have a nice plot device at hand. Be sure that once Bartholomew
will have helped the team a few times, as he is doomed to do, some huge
cans of drek will drop in his backyard, and, well, his friends will have to
give a hand... Since Barth' will be quite intimate with the team, it won't
be too artificial, and you'll have a great way to introduce unconventional
games (ie, not the usual deniable assets get paid get screwed routine.)

>2) A query related to the above, in 2nd Edition's Companion, there was an
>Edge that gave extra Spell Points. I noticed that's been removed, which I
>assume the Powers That Be determined it was too powerful. True? However, if
>so, I take that with a grain of salt since I don't agree with a lot of the
>point cost increases of many Edges. So, my question: Does there now exist an
>Edge that gives magicians more starting Spell Points?

Well, looks like in SR3, the only way to get more spell points is to pay
them 25000¥ from your ressources pool. I allow the old 1 BP for 2 SP trade
from the old companion myself. You could set this up as an edge without
problems.

>Also, is there one
>that gives PhysAds additional Power Points?

Definitely none, that would be really unbalancing, given that edges'
maximum cost is 6 points. Initiation is not allowed for a starting
character AFAIK, and given that adepts can buy Power Points for 20 karma,
you could allow starting adepts to buy PP for 10-20 BP. I wouldn't
recommend it personnally.

>Can you use the former to
>fulfill the latter?

No. The mechanics are incompatible, and the purpose quite different.

Molloy
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 16:55:07 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...


This is odd. How come your messages' replies aren't quoting, but others'
messages are?


According to Wally the Intrepid, on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 the word on the street
was...

> Hoi chummers! This is my first post to ShadowRN, at least since my old
> Amiga 500 days.

With that name, I first figured Jani had returned, but this comment seems
to rule that out (unless I'm completely mistaken, of course, in which case,
let me know :)

I have no idea who Jani is. Was s/he an Amiga user?

> 1) Now, my friend that I mention above who I bought SR3 from (he is
> interested in SR because of the Sega Genesis game, BTW), made a very
> interesting character. He's a scholar, a wealthy elf who collects
> information, basically a decker, I suppose. He's got a high lifestyle, and
> started (how'd you guess) with a million ¥ resources (created using the
> Companion's Building Points system). Anyways, he is quite the
noncombatant,
> and with his background, decided he definitely should have a bodyguard. I
> really like the idea. How to implement it is another story...
[snip]
> d) Suggestions!!!

How about having one of the other PCs be the bodyguard? This could work
very well, because it gives a good reason for the two PCs to be working
together, and avoids the problem of introducing what's basically a
GM-controlled PC into the game.

Good idea, except the others have there PCs already. One is a high-tech
burglar, another is a voodoun hongoun (that's gonna be some difficult
RP'ing!), another is a cyber ninja, and others include an anarchist decker
(heh, so what else is new?), a drug dealer (!), a corporate spy, a shaman of
Fire-Bringer, oh, and my boy Matador, a minotaur late of the British Isles.
Actually he's closest to being suitable for the job, but no, he's not
bodyguard material. He's Impulsive.

> 2) A query related to the above, in 2nd Edition's Companion, there was an
> Edge that gave extra Spell Points. I noticed that's been removed, which I
> assume the Powers That Be determined it was too powerful. True?

They probably only wanted you to get extra spell points by spending 25,000
nuyen per point, just like for magicians made with the standard chargen
rules. The immediate problem I see with making it an edge is that there's a
real problem equating edge values to nuyen, since the money scale isn't
linear.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! OK, well, is that 25,000¥ / spell point at
all convertable into PhysAd power points?

> 3) OK, I'm sure this has been discussed some time before, but I couldn't
> find it. Skillsoft costs. In SR3's p. 296, it has a chart with static
costs
> no matter what the Rating of the skillsoft, and listed as "base price",
and
> yet the text directs you to p. 304. Now on p. 304, the Rating of the
> skillsoft DOES affect its cost! So, which is it?

I think someone forgot what they intended to do here, because although the
rules fit for activesofts, they don't for knowsofts. FWIW, I've always used
the rules that activesofts cost their size x 100 nuyen regardless of the
rating (because that's figured into the size anyway).

Hmm, you're right! So using the p. 304 rules makes someone play twice
for the highre rating. OK, now I'm really flummoxed. Well, I think I agree
with you. My friend will be happy to know he's got quite a credstick-load
coming back to him. heh, Maybe he'll even to afford the car he wants to be
chauffered around in, now. HAHAHA Rich guy couldn't afford a car! heeheehee
Maybe he could make installments...

[I requested a SR .sig program]

I don't have such a program, but it shouldn't be hard to write. As I
understand it, you want a Windows program that automatically generates the
following sequence:

-name (current time/current date)

right? Or do you also want the >>>>>[ ]<<<<< brackets
included somehow?

How you did it was right on the money!

> 5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that Dunklezahn
> isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
> purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...

Read the Dragonheart Trilogy for an answer to that one.

Oooh, OK, thanks. Well I have all the novels except for the most recent
ones. I'm reading them in order, but am only up to Dead Air, which I just
started. I read novels really slowly, what with all the other distractions
on my reading time. But, coming up soon I'm going on a trip. Do you guys
think I could jump ahead and start on that trilogy, without coming across
details of stuff I missed, and/or spoiling a prior novel?

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 17:15:01 2001
OK, now why is it quoting Thorger's message correctly, but it didn't
quote Gurth's or DemonPenta's text at all? I'm using Outlook Express
5.50.etc., under WinME.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thorger Sünert" <Suenert@*******.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 4:29 AM
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...

> > a) Was it correct to use the full 123 building points for an NPC,
even
> > one who'll be in most of the adventures?
>
> Your are the Storyteller, you can make him with 200 or 20 buildpoints with
> you want, but if he has to be on par with the pc it is not a bad idea to
> create him with 123 buil points.

OK, good. Also, the advantage to having this character being "properly
created" is that if I have a surprise player show up, I have a character
s/he can play, that is balanced with them. I do plan to give this character
the same Good Karma awards the PCs will get, so that he remains on par. ...
Oh! I just had a cool idea for a solo game! The elf gets kidnapped, and is
working to free himself on his end, while simultaneously, his bodyguard is
tracking him down ... and the player plays BOTH characters! Oh NEAT!

> > c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
> > otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind
you,
> > my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them
> nearly
> > all the time before.
>
> Really don't know, be carefull that you don't use or see the bodyguard as
> our own char, that the worst what can happen, In a pinch place him in the
> background and DON'T us him as a way to solve problems the pc have.

Ok, good stuff. I'll have to be cognizant of that. Oh! Another thing,
since this guy was hired to be the bodyguard of a guy who decks, whouldn't
he have the correct skill to know what to do for safeguarding the meatbod
while he decks? What skill would that be, and would it be an Active or
Knowledge skill? Is there equipment that would help him detect if his boss
were being traced and the like, or worse, being assaulted by Black IC?

> > d) Suggestions!!!
>
> For runs ?

Well, that's always welcome, but no, I meant any other ideas about the
queries I've put forth.

> You can buy extra spellpoints for 5.000 per spellpoints and if you allow
it
> chars can use spellpoints to initate, create ally spirits, bind foci,....

Don't you mean 25,000¥/spell point? And can those points be converted
into PhysAd power points?

> I would say there is a difference between programs ( page 304 ) and
> skillsofts ( page 296 ) and would use page 296 to decide how much a
> skillsoft would cost.

Yah, Gurth says the same, and I agree with you both. Raise the roof!
heh

> Have fun

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 17:20:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <dghost@****.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...


[talking about skillsoft costs]
> > Personally, I tend towards the one on p. 304, but then, I'm
> > wondering what
> > the chart on p. 296 is for, anyways. I want the "official" answer
> > anyhoo.
>
> Erratta changes the page reference to 223. However, notice that the MP
> size of a skillsoft is based on the rating squared times 2 or 3.
> Therefore, the cost is dependant on the rating.

Page 223 is for the amount of MP the program/soft takes up. At least in
my book, that was never in question. But yeah, the fact that the rating has
in fact been factored into the formula made me want to discard the info on
p. 304.

> > 5) Last and least, heh, show of hands! Who else believes that
> > Dunklezahn
> > isn't really dead, but faked his death for whatever, urm, draconian
> > purposes? I mean, if Elvis could do do, so could a dragon...
>
> Nah. He wouldn't of dispersed his hoard if wasn't dead as a doornail. :)

heh, but what if he went Buddhist on us? I just hope he doesn't try and
assume that position. Oy!

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Sun Jun 10 17:55:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Achille Autran" <aautran@****.fr>
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...


> > b) Was the idea of his "price" being a lvl 3 Contact, sound?
>
> I would also charge him with an upkeep, maybe part of the scholar's
> lifestyle. Even though he is a close friend, magically aware security
> specialists aren't cheap... If you use the "contact upkeep" rules, be sure
> to enforce them, and make sure that the player doesn't abuse the "your
> friend will help you whatsoever" side of of level 3 contact. He does look
> like a sensible player though, so you probably won't have that kind of
problem.

Yes, we're doing this. He's paying for a High Lifestyle, but actually
living an (upper) Middle Lifestyle. That explains the bodyguard's Day Job
pay. Yes, 5k¥ ain't much for such a elite bodyguard, but he also gets room &
board, ie. he's got no Lifestyle payment of his own, ie. he's got a Middle
Lifestyle for free. In other words, he actually rakes in ~10k¥/month, plus
the spoils of anything he gets to keep from runs. Sound good to you? OK, now
go catch that bullet!!

> > c) How do I keep him from stepping on the PCs' toes, combatwise and
> >otherwise? My NPCs tend to be just as colorful as my PCs, which, mind
you,
> >my players have enjoyed in the past, but no NPCs have been with them
nearly
> >all the time before.
>
> Keep the bodyguard in his bodyguard role. His first steps when the lead
> will start to fly will be to make sure that the scholar is safe and
> undercover. Let the PC set up the strategy and handle proactive action.
> Once the scholar is safe, Barth' will be able to follow the other's PC
> strategy, and otherwise, he will mostly be watching for any direct threat
> to his client.

Ok, oh, speaking of that, what actions do y'all think I should have him
take in combat? I mean, how does a bodyguard 'work'? Should he save all his
actions towards taking down attackers against his boss, going after those
that target him? Or should he take the offensive, trying to put down their
adversaries as fast as he can? Or, should he take his first action and take
someone down, and then go on the defensive for his boss? He's got a 9
Reaction +3d6 Initiative.
Oh, also, with melee combat, you can attack more than one opponent. Can
you still do that using Distance Strike, the PhysAd power?

> For non-combat situation, you can use him as a "reason's voice" if you
feel
> that your players are setting up something /really/ stupid. Or provide a
> crucial contact when all tracks have dried up. Just take care to not
> overuse this, as seeing an NPC doing all the job is /quite/ upsetting for
> the players.

Yeah, I've done that with other NPCs before. But, again, I haven't had
other NPCs be there almost always, so yeah, I'll have to stick a cork in
that at some point.

> > d) Suggestions!!!
>
> Well, you have a nice plot device at hand. Be sure that once Bartholomew
> will have helped the team a few times, as he is doomed to do, some huge
> cans of drek will drop in his backyard, and, well, his friends will have
to
> give a hand... Since Barth' will be quite intimate with the team, it won't
> be too artificial, and you'll have a great way to introduce unconventional
> games (ie, not the usual deniable assets get paid get screwed routine.)

Hey yeah, that IS good! And, I *DID* give him the Dark Secret flaw...
*wringing hands in fiendish delight* MWUAH-HAHAHAHA
Thanks pally! *patting on back*

> >Also, is there one
> >that gives PhysAds additional Power Points?
>
> Definitely none, that would be really unbalancing, given that edges'
> maximum cost is 6 points. Initiation is not allowed for a starting
> character AFAIK, and given that adepts can buy Power Points for 20 karma,
> you could allow starting adepts to buy PP for 10-20 BP. I wouldn't
> recommend it personnally.

Hmm, food for thought, OK.

> >Can you use the former to
> >fulfill the latter?
>
> No. The mechanics are incompatible, and the purpose quite different.

> Molloy

OK, thanks so much for your feedback. That'll really help!

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 03:40:01 2001
Wally the Intrepid writes:

> Ok, oh, speaking of that, what actions do y'all think I should have him
> take in combat? I mean, how does a bodyguard 'work'? Should he save all his
> actions towards taking down attackers against his boss, going after those
> that target him? Or should he take the offensive, trying to put down their
> adversaries as fast as he can? Or, should he take his first action and take
> someone down, and then go on the defensive for his boss? He's got a 9
> Reaction +3d6 Initiative.

Marc has a great set of rules for a Bodyguarding skill, which I have neatly
stolen almost lock stock and barrel for my own use. Here are the rules:

3.6 BODYGUARDING

This rule is copied from a brilliant idea of Marc Renouf. The very first
archetype in the SRII basic rulebook was a bodyguard. But nowhere within the
original SR rules, in any sourcebooks that follow, nor in 3rd Ed SR do they
give rules for doing basic bodyguard things, like pushing your client out of
the way of an attack or intercepting a bullet meant for another.

Because of this, I have created a new active skill called "Bodyguarding". It
is linked to Intelligence, can be purchased at character creation like any
other skill, and is raised like any other Active skill. The Bodyguarding
skill dictates the maximum number of Combat Pool dice that a bodyguard may
allocate to a client. In order to do so however, the bodyguard needs to be
within arms reach of the client and must be able to act on the client (in
the case of surprise tests). In essence, it allows a character to use his
Combat Pool to protect other characters from attacks the same way a mage can
use Spell Defence dice from his Magic Pool to protect other characters from
magical attacks (p 183 SR3). Typically, the most appropriate use of this
skill happens during surprise situations (p108 SR3).

Ex. Dead-Eye Dick wants to geek Louie the Suit. Unfortunately, Louie has
employed Mr. Bennet as his bodyguard. Dick leaps out of a shadowed doorway,
his gun at the ready. A surprise test is in order, and everyone rolls a
Reaction test with a base TN of 4. Dead-Eye Dick, lying in wait with Delayed
Action gets a -2 modifier, for a final TN of 2. He rolls a number of dice
equal to his Reaction (5), and gets 4 successes. Louie, thinking about his
latest quarterly balance sheet, gets a +2 modifier for being distracted. He
rolls his Reaction (a mere 3), and gets no successes. Mr. Bennet however, is
paying attention. He rolls his Reaction (an 8) against the base TN and gets
4 successes.

At this point, under the standard rules, Mr. Bennet would have to stand
helplessly by as Dick unloaded his heavy pistol into poor Louie, since Mr.
Bennet can't act directly against Dick. Further, Louie wouldn't get the
chance to dodge, as he was completely surprised. But lo and behold, Mr.
Bennet has a Bodyguard skill of 5. That means that while he can't act
directly against Dick, he can allocate up to 5 of his own Combat Pool dice
to Louie. Mr. Bennet chooses to allocate all 5. Since the allocation of
Combat Pool dice to the client is done in the same fashion as allocating
Spell Defence dice, Mr. Bennet still has time to perform other actions, such
as drawing his gun, so long as he doesn't act directly against Dick. His
actions also happen simultaneously to Dick's as they rolled the same number
of successes on the surprise test. Dead-Eye Dick rolls for his shot as
normal, taking a single simple action to aim, and the other to fire.
Counting all of the appropriate modifiers, he comes up with 2 successes. But
Louie gets the chance to roll the 5 Combat Pool dice that Mr. Bennet has
given him in an attempt to dodge. Louie gets 3 successes, and thus Dead-Eye
Dick's shot is a miss. Curses! Foiled again!

Had Dick beaten both Louie and Mr. Bennet, however, Mr. Bennet would have
been unable to allocate his dice before Dick shot. Nobody ever said
bodyguard work was easy. Further, if by some odd stroke of coincidence Louie
and Dick had scored more successes on the surprise test than Mr. Bennet, our
poor bodyguard would have been caught standing around like a dope as his
client got shot. However, had Mr. Bennet beaten both Louie and Dead-Eye
Dick, he would have been able to act directly against our would-be assassin
(say by quick drawing his pistol and shooting Dick as he stepped out of the
doorway) as well as allocate Combat Pool dice to Louie (just in case Dick
proved hard to take down). Note that any Combat Pool dice that Mr. Bennet
allocates to Louie are unavailable to the bodyguard for other actions.

There will be a few instances where it may be necessary to "take the
bullet". In order to do so, the bodyguard merely declares his intent to
interpose his own body between the shooter and the target. When the shooter
fires, the bodyguard can roll his own Combat Pool dice to dodge into the
shooter's line of fire. If the bodyguard gets more successes than the
shooter, he has successfully taken the bullet. The bodyguard must then
resist the weapon's base damage and check for knockdown as normal. Since
this does not require the bodyguard to be able to act on the client
directly, it comes in handy on those occasions where the client gets more
successes on the surprise test than the bodyguard (though if the shooter
goes first, the bodyguard still can't act in time).

While simple and straightforward, these rules add a lot to the game, and
allow careful, quick, or observant characters to undertake bodyguard
missions in a more realistic and entertaining way.

> Oh, also, with melee combat, you can attack more than one opponent. Can
> you still do that using Distance Strike, the PhysAd power?

I have always played it that it may be. However, it is treated as a ranged
attack, and so valid arguments exist for saying that it may not be used
against multiple targets. Be warned, from my experience, it is quite
powerful if you allow it to be used against multiple targets as per normal
melee rules - there is usually no way to counterattack a distance strike
attack.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:45:06 2001
According to Wally the Intrepid, on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 the word on the
street was...

> This is odd. How come your messages' replies aren't quoting, but others'
> messages are?

Some people can't seem to get quote marks on my messages; the only
connection I've been able to see is that they all appear to be using some
version of Outlook, which apparently does not like kmail very much...

> > With that name, I first figured Jani had returned, but this comment
> > seems to rule that out (unless I'm completely mistaken, of course, in
> > which case, let me know :)
>
> I have no idea who Jani is. Was s/he an Amiga user?

He used to be on this list until about five years ago, and had a bit of a
fixation about naming trolls Wally. The connection is easily made, IMO :)

> > How about having one of the other PCs be the bodyguard?
>
> Good idea, except the others have there PCs already. One is a high-tech
> burglar, another is a voodoun hongoun (that's gonna be some difficult
> RP'ing!), another is a cyber ninja, and others include an anarchist decker
> (heh, so what else is new?), a drug dealer (!), a corporate spy, a shaman of
> Fire-Bringer, oh, and my boy Matador, a minotaur late of the British Isles.
> Actually he's closest to being suitable for the job, but no, he's not
> bodyguard material. He's Impulsive.

Not too great to use as bodyguards, no.

[spell points as an edge]
> Oh yeah, I forgot about that! OK, well, is that 25,000¥ / spell point at
> all convertable into PhysAd power points?

No. Physads have to spend 20 Good Karma per power point; there is no
monetary equivalent. If you can figure out a good building point-to-Karma
exchange ratio, you could let them buy power points at character
generation, though.

> Oooh, OK, thanks. Well I have all the novels except for the most recent
> ones. I'm reading them in order, but am only up to Dead Air, which I just
> started. I read novels really slowly, what with all the other distractions
> on my reading time. But, coming up soon I'm going on a trip. Do you guys
> think I could jump ahead and start on that trilogy, without coming across
> details of stuff I missed, and/or spoiling a prior novel?

Hardly any of the novels are connected (except the parts of the trilogies,
of course) and few deal with important events in the game world that are
also covered in sourcebooks. I'd say you can safely skip ahead to the
Dragonheart trilogy.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Conformity is our tragedy
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 06:45:10 2001
According to Wally the Intrepid, on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 the word on the
street was...

> OK, now why is it quoting Thorger's message correctly, but it didn't
> quote Gurth's or DemonPenta's text at all? I'm using Outlook Express
> 5.50.etc., under WinME.

You might want to get yourself a new mailer :) My choice for one under
Windows would be Pegasus, and many people use Eudora, both of which are
free.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Conformity is our tragedy
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ken Hart)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 10:55:02 2001
> Now, my friend that I mention above who I bought SR3 from ... made
> a very interesting character. He's a scholar, a wealthy elf who
> collects information, basically a decker, I suppose. [snip] Anyways,
> he is quite the noncombatant, and with his background, decided he
> definitely should have a bodyguard.

One suggestion follows up on Matt Breton's idea about having the player run
both characters. If the wealthy elf is basically an information-gathering
noncombatant (and, with his money, why *should* he get involved often?),
you could copy an idea from the Nero Wolfe mystery novels. Wolfe is an
extremely wealthy, extremely eccentric genius who absolutely never leaves
his home. When it comes to doing the muscle stuff and legwork, he sends out
his #1 guy, Archie. (Mystery buffs, feel free to jump in if I've gotten
this wrong.) Your troll bodyguard could fill this same role, although
"bodyguard" probably wouldn't be the best description for him anymore.

Now, granted, if your player really wants the wealthy elf to go on the runs
with the troll, this idea probably won't work. Another option to preserve
game balance -- and create fun role-playing opportunities for yourself --
is to place some limitation on the NPC troll, say, a geas on his adept
abilities. (I'm currently playing a troll adept in an e-mail game; he's a
shamanic physical adept, Gargoyle totem, whose adept powers only work
within an urban environment.) But the "dark secret" you mentioned might do
the trick.

Good luck!

--Ken

Ken Hart / ghastrian@********.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~evilweb/

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Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 16:45:03 2001
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:27:26 -0600 "Wally the Intrepid"
<stormknight@*********.net> writes:
<SNIP>
> Page 223 is for the amount of MP the program/soft takes up. At
> least in
> my book, that was never in question. But yeah, the fact that the
> rating has
> in fact been factored into the formula made me want to discard the
> info on
> p. 304.
<SNIP>

Errata changed it since you reference the page 223 for the size of the
skillsoft in MP and 296 for the price, availability, and street index.
Note that the price is based on the size. Therefore, the page reference
to page 223 makes sense. The info on 304 is for cyberdecks and their
programs.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wally the Intrepid)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Mon Jun 11 23:15:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...


> Wally the Intrepid writes:
>
> > Ok, oh, speaking of that, what actions do y'all think I should have
him
> > take in combat? I mean, how does a bodyguard 'work'? Should he save all
his
> > actions towards taking down attackers against his boss, going after
those
> > that target him? Or should he take the offensive, trying to put down
their
> > adversaries as fast as he can? Or, should he take his first action and
take
> > someone down, and then go on the defensive for his boss? He's got a 9
> > Reaction +3d6 Initiative.
>
> Marc has a great set of rules for a Bodyguarding skill, which I have
neatly
> stolen almost lock stock and barrel for my own use. Here are the rules:
>
> 3.6 BODYGUARDING
>
> This rule is copied from a brilliant idea of Marc Renouf. The very first
> archetype in the SRII basic rulebook was a bodyguard. But nowhere within
the
> original SR rules, in any sourcebooks that follow, nor in 3rd Ed SR do
they
> give rules for doing basic bodyguard things, like pushing your client out
of
> the way of an attack or intercepting a bullet meant for another.
>
> Because of this, I have created a new active skill called "Bodyguarding".
It
> is linked to Intelligence, can be purchased at character creation like any
> other skill, and is raised like any other Active skill. The Bodyguarding
> skill dictates the maximum number of Combat Pool dice that a bodyguard may
> allocate to a client. In order to do so however, the bodyguard needs to be
> within arms reach of the client and must be able to act on the client (in
> the case of surprise tests). In essence, it allows a character to use his
> Combat Pool to protect other characters from attacks the same way a mage
can
> use Spell Defence dice from his Magic Pool to protect other characters
from
> magical attacks (p 183 SR3). Typically, the most appropriate use of this
> skill happens during surprise situations (p108 SR3).
>
> Ex. Dead-Eye Dick wants to geek Louie the Suit. Unfortunately, Louie has
> employed Mr. Bennet as his bodyguard. Dick leaps out of a shadowed
doorway,
> his gun at the ready. A surprise test is in order, and everyone rolls a
> Reaction test with a base TN of 4. Dead-Eye Dick, lying in wait with
Delayed
> Action gets a -2 modifier, for a final TN of 2. He rolls a number of dice
> equal to his Reaction (5), and gets 4 successes. Louie, thinking about his
> latest quarterly balance sheet, gets a +2 modifier for being distracted.
He
> rolls his Reaction (a mere 3), and gets no successes. Mr. Bennet however,
is
> paying attention. He rolls his Reaction (an 8) against the base TN and
gets
> 4 successes.
>
> At this point, under the standard rules, Mr. Bennet would have to stand
> helplessly by as Dick unloaded his heavy pistol into poor Louie, since Mr.
> Bennet can't act directly against Dick. Further, Louie wouldn't get the
> chance to dodge, as he was completely surprised. But lo and behold, Mr.
> Bennet has a Bodyguard skill of 5. That means that while he can't act
> directly against Dick, he can allocate up to 5 of his own Combat Pool dice
> to Louie. Mr. Bennet chooses to allocate all 5. Since the allocation of
> Combat Pool dice to the client is done in the same fashion as allocating
> Spell Defence dice, Mr. Bennet still has time to perform other actions,
such
> as drawing his gun, so long as he doesn't act directly against Dick. His
> actions also happen simultaneously to Dick's as they rolled the same
number
> of successes on the surprise test. Dead-Eye Dick rolls for his shot as
> normal, taking a single simple action to aim, and the other to fire.
> Counting all of the appropriate modifiers, he comes up with 2 successes.
But
> Louie gets the chance to roll the 5 Combat Pool dice that Mr. Bennet has
> given him in an attempt to dodge. Louie gets 3 successes, and thus
Dead-Eye
> Dick's shot is a miss. Curses! Foiled again!
>
> Had Dick beaten both Louie and Mr. Bennet, however, Mr. Bennet would have
> been unable to allocate his dice before Dick shot. Nobody ever said
> bodyguard work was easy. Further, if by some odd stroke of coincidence
Louie
> and Dick had scored more successes on the surprise test than Mr. Bennet,
our
> poor bodyguard would have been caught standing around like a dope as his
> client got shot. However, had Mr. Bennet beaten both Louie and Dead-Eye
> Dick, he would have been able to act directly against our would-be
assassin
> (say by quick drawing his pistol and shooting Dick as he stepped out of
the
> doorway) as well as allocate Combat Pool dice to Louie (just in case Dick
> proved hard to take down). Note that any Combat Pool dice that Mr. Bennet
> allocates to Louie are unavailable to the bodyguard for other actions.
>
> There will be a few instances where it may be necessary to "take the
> bullet". In order to do so, the bodyguard merely declares his intent to
> interpose his own body between the shooter and the target. When the
shooter
> fires, the bodyguard can roll his own Combat Pool dice to dodge into the
> shooter's line of fire. If the bodyguard gets more successes than the
> shooter, he has successfully taken the bullet. The bodyguard must then
> resist the weapon's base damage and check for knockdown as normal. Since
> this does not require the bodyguard to be able to act on the client
> directly, it comes in handy on those occasions where the client gets more
> successes on the surprise test than the bodyguard (though if the shooter
> goes first, the bodyguard still can't act in time).
>
> While simple and straightforward, these rules add a lot to the game, and
> allow careful, quick, or observant characters to undertake bodyguard
> missions in a more realistic and entertaining way.

That is EXCELLENT!! I am absolutely using that!
One question, however. As y'all know, normally, when you Dodge, if you
fail to completely dodge the attack, you can still take the Successes you
did make and add them to your Body Resistance Test. Now then, can a
bodyguard's client do the same with the Bodyguard dice? I assume that would
mean the bodyguard didn't completely get the client free of the shot, but at
least shoved him or her so that they took the shot in a less vulnerable
location. Or maybe even made it so the client stages the damage down to
nothing.
Also, when the bodyguard "take the bullet", can he also use his own
successes on the bodyguard (dodge into line of fire) vs. shooter test to add
to his own Damage Resistance Test?

> > Oh, also, with melee combat, you can attack more than one opponent.
Can
> > you still do that using Distance Strike, the PhysAd power?
>
> I have always played it that it may be. However, it is treated as a
ranged
> attack, and so valid arguments exist for saying that it may not be used
> against multiple targets. Be warned, from my experience, it is quite
> powerful if you allow it to be used against multiple targets as per normal
> melee rules - there is usually no way to counterattack a distance strike
> attack.

Yeah, true, nasty. At least the multiple attack modifeir will raise the
TN. Oh, speaking of nasty, can you do Called Shots with it, too?

--
Wally -- http://members.nbci.com/stormknight1/home.html
Please Message me on ICQ: #163454
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Introduction and questions, queries and interrogatives...
Date: Tue Jun 12 10:50:01 2001
Wally the Intrepid writes:

> That is EXCELLENT!! I am absolutely using that!

You may also want to check Marc's original version, as mine is a somewhat
hacked up version of his. I'm sure he'll post his web page address for us
yet again if we ask nicely ;-).

> One question, however. As y'all know, normally, when you Dodge, if you
> fail to completely dodge the attack, you can still take the Successes you
> did make and add them to your Body Resistance Test. Now then, can a
> bodyguard's client do the same with the Bodyguard dice? I assume that would
> mean the bodyguard didn't completely get the client free of the shot, but
> at least shoved him or her so that they took the shot in a less vulnerable
> location. Or maybe even made it so the client stages the damage down to
> nothing.

I would see this as quite reasonable, yes. Successes achieved by the
Bodyguard on behalf of a client would count as if the client had achieved
them himself or herself.

> Also, when the bodyguard "take the bullet", can he also use his own
> successes on the bodyguard (dodge into line of fire) vs. shooter test to
> add to his own Damage Resistance Test?

As the rule was written, I recall that if the Bodyguard achieved more
successes than the shooter, then he successfully intercepted the bullet with
his body. He then had to resist the _base_ damage of the weapon. I
wouldn't allow the Dodge successes to also be used to reduce the damage,
no. Nor would I allow excess Dodge successes, over and above those needed
to successfully intercept the bullet to reduce the damage. The bodyguard
would just have to soak the damage with his Body Attribute. However, I
would allow him to add any remaining Combat Pool dice to his Body test in
the normal way.

> Yeah, true, nasty. At least the multiple attack modifeir will raise the
> TN. Oh, speaking of nasty, can you do Called Shots with it, too?

Normally in SR3 melee combat Called Shots are not possible, unless you're
using the advanced melee combat rules from CC. However, a Distance Strike
can be considered a ranged attack, and so there are valid arguments for
allowing it to be Called. OTOH, if you ue the CC advanced rules, then it's
a moot point and it can be Called either way.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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