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Message no. 1
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 13:24:39 +1000
>
> C'mon yer self Luke,
>
> On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Luke Kendall wrote:
>
> > Ivy Ryan wrote:
> >
> > We play a close variant, yes. In our opinion it's basically SR I, with
>
> You play a Varient. Not even that close, especially with your healing
> and Karma rules.
>
> > consistent in the area of magic. For instance, in our game, you can't
> > see through physical objects (even glass) on the Astral Plane, because
> > you don't see by using light on the Astral Plane; Astrally projecting
> > mages can't materialise, or hear things on the physical plane, or talk
> > to people on the physical plane. So I guess the other changes also make
> > mages a bit less like superbeings.
>
> Transparency is an attribute of glass, so it has that attribute on the
> Astral as well as on the Mundane. Materializing, hearing, and talking
> also really would work the way it does in the game. If we could get the
> magic to work. I think you keep forgetting that the designer of the SRII
> magic system *is* a mage in real life. He does know what he is talking
> about. As only the practitioner can know.
>
> > I still claim that your interpretation of the SR II rule on p191, which
> > you take to mean you _can_ use Karma to re-roll (even when you've had _no_
> > successes in trying to achieve a high target number), changes the game far
> > more from what FASA intended, than our changes do.
>
> Carefully read the rules on pg. 191 under Karma Pool. Rerolls are a
> natural part of SRII. A success gained through rerolls is just as
> "natural" as one made on the first roll. If you still can't understand,
> I'm sorry. The rules are very clear, actually.
>
> > So in my opinion, your statement is more true when applied to your game
> > than to ours!
>
> Sorry you think that way. My game is strictly run by-the-book, no
> variations at all any more. Maybe your group should try playing by the
> written rules and see how they work?
>
> Ivy
>


--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !tv(--) b++ D+ B? e+ u@ h+(*)
f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+
Message no. 2
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 18:13:41 +1000
RROOOOOOOOOTTTTT IT!!!
Yet again our mailer fucks it up!!!
Please help me anyone who has experienced a similar problem

Ivy writes:

> Transparency is an attribute of glass, so it has that attribute on the
> Astral as well as on the Mundane. Materializing, hearing, and talking
> also really would work the way it does in the game. If we could get the
> magic to work. I think you keep forgetting that the designer of the SRII
> magic system *is* a mage in real life. He does know what he is talking
> about. As only the practitioner can know.

Glass has the attribute of transparency to _light_ (and probably other
electromagnetic radiation sources too), but does it really have the
transperancy to astral energies? For all we know, Bricks may be transparent
to astral energies, and glass not.

For those who beleive glass isn't transparent to astral energies, I ussume
you dissallow mirrors, binoculars etc as well? This would be a problem for
the mage with glasses or contact lenses, as he wouldnt ever be able to cast
spells at people, and wouldn't ba able to see while astrally perceiving.

Paul writes:

> After reading the spell discription..I would say that simple Invisibility
> has a magical psycological effect to make the spell target of the spell
> invisible because, it does not affect tech devices..However..The Improved
> Invisibility spell would actually bend the light or make the spell target
> near completely non-relective/non-obstructive to light waves..

If an invisibilty spell has a physological effect to make the recipient
invisible, I dont buy it. You could make the peson viewing the invisible
person think they see through the invisible person, but unless the viewer
knows exactly whats on the other side, this wont work. Even if I'm fooled
into beleiving somethings invisible, it wont work unless I have an accurate
mental picture of what is on the other side. For this to occur, the spell
would need to be cast on the viewer, and the caster would need to know whats
on the other side of the target the whole time. Not too effective.

The only explanation I can see is that a mana invisiblilty spell "looks" on
the other side itself, the projects a mini spell to the viewer to put that
image on his brain, so the viewer sees whats on the other side of the
invisible person, and hence the person is invisible. A physical version
would work by actually twisting the light around the recipient, or by making
the recipient transparent to visible light.

> consideration of this matter, I'm tempted to put Physical invisibility
> into the Manipulation category because it would make more sense.

Illusion spells, like invisibilty, are usually accepted to "play" with
light, rather than fall under the hefty catagory of the physical
manipulation spell. Although, for an effect like invisibilty, which is very
useful, the extra drain afforded by being a manipulation spell wouldn't go
astray...

Ever wanted to be immune to lasers? Try a physical invisibilty spell. :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !tv(--) b++ D+ B? e+ u@ h+(*)
f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+
Message no. 3
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 14:54:07 +1000
MILLIKEN DAMION A slips and hits the Send key:

>
> C'mon yer self Luke,
>
[42 lines deleted]

luke@*******.mellow

PS:
Hey, it's Friday! Shadowrun tonight!
Message no. 4
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 14:32:32 -0400
On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:
> Glass has the attribute of transparency to _light_ (and probably other
> electromagnetic radiation sources too), but does it really have the
> transperancy to astral energies?

Actually transparent things on the mundane plane retain that quality on
the astral..check out pg 145, the whole section on Astral Space, core
rules...

For all we know, Bricks may be transparent
> to astral energies, and glass not.
>
Same as above..unless they are transparent bricks on the mundane plane
they will be opaque..
-----------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 5
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 11:31:32 -0700
Hi Damion,

On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, MILLIKEN DAMION A wrote:

> RROOOOOOOOOTTTTT IT!!!
> Yet again our mailer fucks it up!!!
>
> Ivy writes:
>
> > Transparency is an attribute of glass, so it has that attribute on the
>
> Glass has the attribute of transparency to _light_ (and probably other
> electromagnetic radiation sources too), but does it really have the
> transperancy to astral energies? For all we know, Bricks may be transparent
> to astral energies, and glass not.

Hmmmm, w3you misunderstand me. The Attribute of Transparency is a part
of the Nature of glass. Therefor it has that attribute on the etheric as
well as on the mundane. (Or translucancy if the glass is translucent).
Bricks do not have the attribute of transparency on this plane, so they
will not have it on the etheric either. Magical physics are not mundane
physics, it sounds wierd, but there it is.


> Paul writes:
>
> > After reading the spell discription..I would say that simple Invisibility
> > has a magical psycological effect to make the spell target of the spell
> > invisible because, it does not affect tech devices..However..The Improved
> > Invisibility spell would actually bend the light or make the spell target
> > near completely non-relective/non-obstructive to light waves..
>
> If an invisibilty spell has a physological effect to make the recipient
> invisible, I dont buy it. You could make the peson viewing the invisible
> person think they see through the invisible person, but unless the viewer
> knows exactly whats on the other side, this wont work. Even if I'm fooled

Invisibility is a magical illusion. The basic version is a mana spell
which means that it works on living beings. It makes it harder for the
person to conscioulsy *notice* the subject of the spell. Plays tricks on
their minds, if you will. The physical version of invisibility plays
tricks with light instead, but it only makes the subject harder to
notice. Neither spell actually makes the subject physically invisible,
else there would be no possibility of spotting them, hence no roll to see
them, hence to modification to the roll (which is what the spell does, it
modifies the roll to see someone.)
>
> Ever wanted to be immune to lasers? Try a physical invisibilty spell. :-)

Bad news, you are NOT immune to lasers. You are harder to hit, but if
you're hit, you still take the damage. You haven't been turned to gas,
and you haven't been moved. You are still there, and light isn't bending
around you either. If someone can manage to see you, they can try to hit
you. If they hit you, (at +8) then you take the damage. This is magic,
not physics. They work differently.

Ivy
Message no. 6
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Invisibility Spells
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 17:02:00 +1000
GRANITE writes:

> Actually transparent things on the mundane plane retain that quality on
> the astral..check out pg 145, the whole section on Astral Space, core
> rules...

Thats what you get when you havent read the rule book for about a year :-)
You forget little things like that. Well, you've got me. Sinse I know
absolutely nothing about the workings of magic, I'll trust the rules, unless
anyone here puts up a better argument, but most people in the know here seem
to agree with the rules [strange occurance for a change]

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE d@ H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v C+ U P? !L !3 E? N K- W+ M
!V po@ Y t(+) !5 !j r+(++) G(+) !tv(--) b++ D+ B? e+ u@ h+(*)
f+@ !r n--(----)@ !y+

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Invisibility Spells, you may also be interested in:

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