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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Invulnerable magicians
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:41:00 -0400
On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Craig S Dohmen wrote:

> If you CAN'T ground thourgh quickenings, then you're going to end up
> with a bunch of invulnerable magicians walking around.

This is not true. I do not allow grounding through quickenings
or sustained spells in my campaign, and I do not have, nor have I ever
had the problem of a bunch of "invulnerable magicians" walking around.
There are plenty of ways to limit magic to keep it from getting out of hand.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Invulnerable magicians
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:25:32 +0100
Marc A Renouf wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Craig S Dohmen wrote:
> > If you CAN'T ground thourgh quickenings, then you're going to end up
> > with a bunch of invulnerable magicians walking around.
> This is not true. I do not allow grounding through quickenings
> or sustained spells in my campaign, and I do not have, nor have I ever
> had the problem of a bunch of "invulnerable magicians" walking around.
> There are plenty of ways to limit magic to keep it from getting out of hand.
On, no, you are wrong! You would need a magician to break through a
quickening you can't ground through, while you can ground through a
quickened spell even with...

Oh... no... wait... hm...

Sascha
(About 255 :-) are missing in this post. Insert them at your likings :-)
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some |
| die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to |
| deal out death in judgement. -- Gandalf |
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Message no. 3
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Invulnerable magicians?
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:18:02 -0400
On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Georg Greve wrote:

> > If you CAN'T ground thourgh quickenings, then you're going to end up
> > with a bunch of invulnerable magicians walking around.
>
> Really ? Why ? Give me an example, please.

Otherwise, as you point out, the only way to beat a quickening
is to dispel or fight it. Dispelling can only be done by another
initiate. As someone else pointed out, initiates aren't (or
shouldn't be) common. Fighting it takes time and is personally
risky, and while you're busy doing that, the other magician is
either a) mopping up the rest of your team or b) projecting to astral
space to stop you. Heck, I'd dump my karma into quickenings, too.

--Craig
Message no. 4
From: "John W. Carter" <scarterjw@****.TRISTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Invulnerable magicians?
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:54:11 -0500
>> > If you CAN'T ground thourgh quickenings, then you're going to end up
>> > with a bunch of invulnerable magicians walking around.
>>
>> Really ? Why ? Give me an example, please.
>
>Otherwise, as you point out, the only way to beat a quickening
>is to dispel or fight it. Dispelling can only be done by another
>initiate. As someone else pointed out, initiates aren't (or
>shouldn't be) common. Fighting it takes time and is personally
>risky, and while you're busy doing that, the other magician is
>either a) mopping up the rest of your team or b) projecting to astral
>space to stop you. Heck, I'd dump my karma into quickenings, too.
>
>--Craig

-=-=-=-=-=-=-Potential Spoiler Alert: A Killing Glare-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


























Let me relay a story on how our GM took care of an over-powerful magician.
(Actually, I have several stories about that, but this one should pique
your interest) Our token magician, a Gator Shaman, had acquired a Rating-4
Power Focus from another adventure (found, mind you, not bought. Spent a
frag-load of Karma on it too). He was basically wiping anything and
everything out with this thing. So, he ran us through A Killing Glare.
During the final conflict, Perianwyr was in Astral Space, lending
Spell Defense to the guys on his side. Well, he saw this huge glow
in the Astral coming from our magician. (This glow was, of course, the
Rating-4 Power focus. He couldn't mask it) So, he crunched a spell
through it and boom! It was gone! Just like that! No tagbacks!

Now, I'm not saying constantly throw dragons at the mages who do that
sort of thing, just do it once. If they don't learn their lesson,
do it again with different circumstances (free spirit, ultra-powerful
mage, etc.), and keep doing it until they learn their lesson.

Or, better yet, take them on a flight overseas. What airline is going to
allow any mage to cart a focus on the plane much less a quickened spell?

There are so many ways in and out of combat to deal with munchkins. Half the
fun is in watching them squirm when you take their toys away...

/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
| John W. Carter |Janice: You had a brother who was a |
| SCarterJW@****.tristate.edu | comedian? |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|Dr. Bob: Yes, but that was before he fell |
| Card-carrying member of: | into a vat of molten optical |
| The Reptile Sucks | glass. |
| Fan Club |Janice: What did he do? |
| (UMK3: More than a game... |Dr. Bob: He made a spectacle of himself! |
| ...it's a way of life) |-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
| | Home: http://www.tristate.edu:8080/carter |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
Message no. 5
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Invulnerable magicians?
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 23:44:31 GMT
> On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Georg Greve wrote:
> Otherwise, as you point out, the only way to beat a quickening
> is to dispel or fight it. Dispelling can only be done by another
> initiate. As someone else pointed out, initiates aren't (or
> shouldn't be) common. Fighting it takes time and is personally
> risky, and while you're busy doing that, the other magician is
> either a) mopping up the rest of your team or b) projecting to astral
> space to stop you. Heck, I'd dump my karma into quickenings, too.
> --Craig

No, no, no. The way to defeat a quickened spell is for a sniper 1200
yards away to deliver an assault cannon shell to the head of the person
wearing those spells.

The method is to place a kilo of C-12 in the seat cushion of that person's
car.

The way to take out a quickened spell is to have a guard behind a ward
with an assault rifle. Pass the ward and lose the spells, stay back and
eat lead.

The way is... on and on and on and on. Grounding a spell through a quickening
is actually one of the last things I'd try to do in a fight, which is
why our campaign disallowing it hasn't made much difference.

And why are the PCs the only people in this universe with quickened
spells? I don't allow them to be grounded through. Key corporate personnel
have quickened Increase Willpower +4 spells to make them less vulnerable
to mind control et cetera. Corporate magicians use quickened spells to
bolster the effectiveness of their employers... and NPCs are not bound by
Karma, only by the GM's sense of fairness. This works *against* the PCs
in many cases.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 6
From: U-Gene <R3STG@***.CC.UAKRON.EDU>
Subject: Invulnerable magicians
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 10:35:10 EDT
Paul Jonathan Adams:
>The way is [snip- 6 or 7 ways to kill a magician with many Quickinings]

I'll agree with Paul on this. Noone is invulnerable. The PC just have
to _think_ and/or _plan_, something they typically don't do. (Mine don't
at least :) Most PC's will typically take the direct route. If the
panther cannon your holding has no effect on the mage coming through
the door, try firing at ceiling and drop it on him. Be creative.

>Why are PCs the only ones in the world with quickened spells? [snip]

Agreed. Spell locks on typically weeny corp. executives is a good defense.
Besides, if you do destroy a mages quickened spell, there's probably 4-12
Karma flushed down the toilet. (Havoc, a PC, hates it when that
happens :> )

U-Gene << loves it when a good plan comes together >>
Message no. 7
From: robert frazine <shade@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Invulnerable magicians?
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:54:23 -0400
On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Craig S Dohmen wrote:
>
> Otherwise, as you point out, the only way to beat a quickening
> is to dispel or fight it. Dispelling can only be done by another
>
> --Craig
>
Uhm.. excuse me, I really don't care if you decide to ground through
or not, but can I ask a simple question? Why do you have to attack a mage's
quickenings? Why not a bullet to the head? And also remember to inflict
pain on the mage with quickenings: He can't turn them off, make one of the
places that he mus be in have a ward(like the meet site, where breaking the
ward is a bad thing.) Also, remember that even if you can't ground
through it, you can attack it in astral space. That works as well as
dispelling and you don't need to be an initiate to do it.
--Rob(hoping to step back out of this endless arguement)

Further Reading

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