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From:	Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject:	IRA
Date:	Fri, 15 Apr 1994 19:42:58 +0200

Message no. 1 (sorry, no quotes. the message was just too damn long...)

The IRA won in Shadowrun? Then what is Ireland like in the '50s then? (I
know, I don't have the Tir Na Nog (or whatever) sourcebook).

But anyway, Dodger, how do you feel about the Ulster Freedom Fighters, or
whatever that bunch of lunatic protestants is called?

From:	J Gavigan <csc086@*****.LANCS.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: IRA
Date:	Fri, 15 Apr 1994 19:24:14 +0100

Message no. 2 > (sorry, no quotes. the message was just too damn long...)

*grin*

> The IRA won in Shadowrun? Then what is Ireland like in the '50s then? (I
> know, I don't have the Tir Na Nog (or whatever) sourcebook).

Well, the IRA began using magic in their attacks against the British government
and so on before 2011, I think. They eventually kicked ass so much that Britain
was forced to give in. Thus the Treaty of Galway.
Sean Laverty, Lady Brane Deigh's husband was a leading memeber of the IRA after
the turn of the millenium, but he, of course has disappeared.
I haven't got a copy of the Tir na nOg sourcebook handy - perhaps someone who
has can elaborate on what I've just written?
By the way, the name "Tir nan Og" (as in the London Sourcebook) was a mistake
on the part of Carl Sargent and Marc what's-his-face, who, neither of them know
a _thing_ about Ireland. "Tir na nOg" is the proper spelling, and it was inly
after several heated discussions with Tom Dowd over the phone that he was
persuaded to adopt the proper spelling. At the time, I think I suggested that
the "Tir nan Og" spelling could have been encouraged by the NAN, in an attempt
to associate themselves with the Tir (as in Tir NAN Og...)
"Tir na nOg" means Land of Youth, and is a mythical land which features in the
legends of Fionn Mac Cumhail (Finn Mc Cool) as a place where people never grow
old. Personally I think it's a stupid, pretentious name. The legal, proper name
for the Republic of Ireland, even today, is "Eire", with "Eireann"
being an
acceptable term, also.
"Tir Tairngire" means Land of Promise, and also has a basis in Irish/Celtic
myth and legend as a land in the Atlantic, west of Ireland, that only appeared
ever so often, or something of that nature.

> But anyway, Dodger, how do you feel about the Ulster Freedom Fighters, or
> whatever that bunch of lunatic protestants is called?

Well, they're just as bad as the IRA, aren't they?
There's no real difference between them and the IRA - They just align
themselves to a different political group, and they happen to be less hated
than the IRA (*grin* I almost typed IRS there by mistake! :) for the simple
reason that they aren't as active, and generally target only Nationalists and
Republicans in the North, whereas the IRA basically go all over the shop.
There's no real difference between them, though. They're all murderers and
gangsters.
The IRA might be more famous for planting bombs that kill loads of people, and
wreak havoc (e.g. Warrington, Enniskillen, the bombs in the City of London),
but there is also a constant war of tit-for-tat killings or "sectarian"
killings as they are called going on the entire time in the North of Ireland.
And the Unionist groups are just as active in this respect as the Nationalists.

By the way, I'd just like to point out right now that the war in the North isn't
between Catholics and Protestants. It's between people who want the Six Counties
to be part of Ireland, and people who want it to remain part of the UK.
'Twas a Presbyterian (a "Protestant") who designed the modern Irish flag, which
was based on the French Tricolore with it's Blue and Red at opposite ends,
representing the Royalists and the rebels, and the white in the middle,
signifying peace. On the Irish flag, the orange stands for the Orange-men of
the North - the stalwarts of the Unionist movement - and the green represents
the Nationalists, who want a united Ireland. (So, Bono was perfectly right
when he ripped off the orange and green bits from the Tric and held up the
remaining white piece to symbolise peace.)
The original Irish flag, which will, no doubt be the flag of Shadowrun's
Tir na nOg, is a golden harp on an emerald green background.
At home, I have a flag like this, which belonged to Daniel O' Connell, who
fought for the rights of Catholics during the last century, and which was givem
to my father by Daniel O' Connell's granddaughter, a nun, just before she died.

All in all, in my opinion, Ireland in Shadowrun was handled very badly indeed,
in many ways. Perhaps someday, I'll write an alternative Eire sourcebook for
Shadowrun... But don't hold your breath. ;)

Jacking' out...

/> Dodger
/<
O[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\<
\> Dodger - csc086 @ cent1.lancs.ac.uk

"Blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the Earth......
As these words were spoken, I swear I heard the old man laughin' -
'What good is our used-up world and how could it be worth havin'?'"
- Sting 'All This Time'
-----===*===-----

From:	Necromancer <shilberg@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: IRA
Date:	Fri, 15 Apr 1994 21:04:49 -0500

Message no. 3 I think its the Ulster Liberation Army <I seem to remember that from Patriot
Games by Tom Clancy>.

--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> "Only the insane have enough strength
<shilberg@********.uni.uiuc.edu> enough to prosper. Only those who
prosper can truly judge what is sane."
- Proverb

From:	Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: IRA
Date:	Sun, 17 Apr 1994 22:47:52 +0930

Message no. 4 >
>I think its the Ulster Liberation Army <I seem to remember that from Patriot
>Games by Tom Clancy>.
>
The ULA is fictional, and are (sortof) on the same side as the IRA. (That's
_very_ sortof) The Ulster Freedom Fighters, along with a lot of other
groups that are Ulster something-or-other, are anti-IRA (ie, they are
Protestants), come from Northern Ireland, and tend to be just as rabid and
violent as the Catholic terrorists.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9 am,
it's because they were up all night.

From:	J Gavigan <csc086@*****.LANCS.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: IRA
Date:	Sun, 17 Apr 1994 15:06:30 +0100

Message no. 5 > The ULA is fictional, and are (sortof) on the same side as the IRA. (That's
> _very_ sortof)

Correct! :)

> The Ulster Freedom Fighters, along with a lot of other
> groups that are Ulster something-or-other, are anti-IRA (ie, they are
> Protestants),
^^^^^^^^^^^ Not necessarily true. The divide in the North is between
Nationalistsw (who want to see a united Ireland) and Unionists (who want to see
NI remain part of the United Kingdom).
The fact that most Nationalists are Catholic and that most Unionists are either
Anglican or Presbyterian is kind of incidental.

> come from Northern Ireland, and tend to be just as rabid and
> violent as the Catholic terrorists.

You've got it right there!

/>
/<
O[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\<
\> Dodger - csc086 @ cent1.lancs.ac.uk

The acrid air is heavy
with hate and a question
hangs in the haze -
When will you Rage?

-----===*===-----

From:	Necromancer <shilberg@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: IRA
Date:	Sun, 17 Apr 1994 21:36:57 -0500

Message no. 6 Ah, I thought the ULA was the Protestant terrorist group in _Patriot Games_.
I'll have to read that over again. Anyway, I happen to be more than a little
clueless on the Ireland matter anyway. I'll leave that area of the world to
Dodger and his buddies.

--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> "Only the insane have enough strength
<shilberg@********.uni.uiuc.edu> enough to prosper. Only those who
prosper can truly judge what is sane."
- Proverb

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