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Message no. 1
From: The Phlatline <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 12:14:12 -0400
Ok i have a few questions about some cyberware in shadowrun

1) Smartlinks: Do they or do they not come as a symmetric pair?
i.e. you buy a smartlink. does it have 1 or 2 inductance
pads and hardware to match?

2) Same with cyberspurs/razors when you buy them does it cover both arms?

3) if in 1 the answer is yes to 2 pad sets does this in effect offer some form
of ambedexterity(sp?) on firing off handed?

4) with vehicles: when they list cargo as 8CF cargo + 2CF storage they mean
that the storage is just that un-available to mods right? or is this
modifiable?

--Phlatline
----v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^-
David Graff | GEEK CODE v1.0.1
339 Randall Hall | GCS d+(---) p(-p+) c+(+++) l u- e* m---(*) s !n(n---)
Cortland, Ny 13045| h* f+(--) g++ w+++ t++(---) r(++) y+
607.753.2783 |
--------------------------------------------------------Phlatline-------------
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject: Irksome question of my own - Reply
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 20:12:44 +0200
Regarding smartlinks and spurs in both arms: No, I think you have to get
them seperately. So, you'll need two smartlinks (one in each arm), for a
total Essence cost of 1 point.
Message no. 3
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 13:16:19 -0700
On Thu, 5 May 1994, The Phlatline wrote:

> Ok i have a few questions about some cyberware in shadowrun
>
> 1) Smartlinks: Do they or do they not come as a symmetric pair?
> i.e. you buy a smartlink. does it have 1 or 2 inductance
> pads and hardware to match?
>
> 2) Same with cyberspurs/razors when you buy them does it cover both arms?
>
> 3) if in 1 the answer is yes to 2 pad sets does this in effect offer some form
> of ambedexterity(sp?) on firing off handed?
>
> 4) with vehicles: when they list cargo as 8CF cargo + 2CF storage they mean
> that the storage is just that un-available to mods right? or is this
> modifiable?
>
> --Phlatline
> ----v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^---v^-
> David Graff | GEEK CODE v1.0.1
> 339 Randall Hall | GCS d+(---) p(-p+) c+(+++) l u- e* m---(*) s !n(n---)
> Cortland, Ny 13045| h* f+(--) g++ w+++ t++(---) r(++) y+
> 607.753.2783 |
> --------------------------------------------------------Phlatline-------------
>
Well, here's how I run it. The Smartlink is to One hand.
Normally the dominate one. If some slag wants links to both hands, they
can buy another link. (This comes from the Story "Would it help if we
said we were sorry" from Into The Shadows)
Spurs are the same way. In the description it only mentions Spur
in the singular so that infers that you only get one at the price. The
book states that razors are fitted to *both* hands.
Storage cargo factors could be used for remote controlled items.
People might not fit. Visualize the vehicle and decide.
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 07:35:05 +0930
>
> Ok i have a few questions about some cyberware in shadowrun
>
> 1) Smartlinks: Do they or do they not come as a symmetric pair?
> i.e. you buy a smartlink. does it have 1 or 2 inductance
> pads and hardware to match?
>
Well, this is probably a game call. But I say no. Most people only shoot
with one hand (okay, they may use the other for support etc)

> 2) Same with cyberspurs/razors when you buy them does it cover both arms?
>
Spurs no. Swords are kinda like guns. However, I say razors do come in
both hands. But it's a GM call.

> 3) if in 1 the answer is yes to 2 pad sets does this in effect offer some form
> of ambedexterity(sp?) on firing off handed?
>
Nope. The problem with firing off-handed isn't just the eye co-ordination.
It's the fact that most people have difficulty doing finely controlled
motor work with their off hand. Same goes for sword-play, and writing.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9 am,
it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 5
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 15:59:33 -0700
>Ok i have a few questions about some cyberware in shadowrun
>
>1) Smartlinks: Do they or do they not come as a symmetric pair?
> i.e. you buy a smartlink. does it have 1 or 2 inductance
> pads and hardware to match?

its a single pad - choose a hand.

>2) Same with cyberspurs/razors when you buy them does it cover both arms?

with most probability its is only one. To much seeing wolverine. People most
times are ambidexterous.



Nightfox
Message no. 6
From: Timothy Dann <C598706@*******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own - Reply
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 18:22:19 CDT
I personally always thought you got a twin set of spurs (both arms in one deal)
but only one smartlink port (be it via datajack or induction pad). Some of my
characters have wanted two, and I sold them the second pad for a little less
(like 75% of the base) =Y= and slightly less essence (again, about 75%) 'cause
they already have all of the chrome in their head, they just need the wire.

HOWEVER: this would be _extremely_ disconcerting to someone without an enceph-
alon to help sort out two targeting systems and accompanying info. I gave
the regular gun the -2 TN, and the off-hand got -1 TN (I think those are right)
...maybe -1 and 0, I don't remember. Ultimately, it's sort of a Munchkin idea
so keep a real close eye on it.

Midnight Sting
Message no. 7
From: The Phlatline <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 21:01:38 -0400
>Well, this is probably a game call. But I say no. Most people only shoot
>with one hand (okay, they may use the other for support etc)
>

sounds good to me...

>Spurs no. Swords are kinda like guns. However, I say razors do come in
>both hands. But it's a GM call.
>

again ok..

>Nope. The problem with firing off-handed isn't just the eye co-ordination.
>It's the fact that most people have difficulty doing finely controlled
>motor work with their off hand. Same goes for sword-play, and writing.
>

point taken on that i was going on the assumption that smartlinks had some
control over the physical...

--Phlat
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 12:12:17 +0930
> >Nope. The problem with firing off-handed isn't just the eye co-ordination.
> >It's the fact that most people have difficulty doing finely controlled
> >motor work with their off hand. Same goes for sword-play, and writing.
> >
>
> point taken on that i was going on the assumption that smartlinks had some
> control over the physical...
>

No, what smartlinks allow is two things: cybernetic control of the gun (ie,
shoot, eject clip, etc), and an indicator of where you are aiming.

If you want to suddenly become good at something, that's skillwires and
chips. Now, THESE would ignore your "handness".

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around at 9 am,
it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 9
From: The Phlatline <GRAFF85@********.CORTLAND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 23:29:34 -0400
>> point taken on that i was going on the assumption that smartlinks had some
>> control over the physical...
>>
>
>No, what smartlinks allow is two things: cybernetic control of the gun (ie,
>shoot, eject clip, etc), and an indicator of where you are aiming.

as i said assumed i.e. went on what i interpreted the rules to be.

kill this thread guys i don't want it to get out of hand with a munchkinous
debate

--Phlatline
Message no. 10
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 17:43:14 +0100
In reply to The Phlatline .....

> 1) Smartlinks: Do they or do they not come as a symmetric pair?
> i.e. you buy a smartlink. does it have 1 or 2 inductance
> pads and hardware to match?

Smartlinks do not come as a symmetrical pair, you choose the hand you wish it
to go into, and if that hand happens to be a part of a cyberarm then you get
your reduced essence cost.

> 2) Same with cyberspurs/razors when you buy them does it cover both arms?

Spurs and razors go into each hand/arm, it's generally taken that the essence
cost given covers the installation for each hand/arm.

> 3) if in 1 the answer is yes to 2 pad sets does this in effect offer some form
> of ambedexterity(sp?) on firing off handed?

Well the answer is no, but for the record you don't get any benefits at all
from having two amrtgun links. As soon as you start using two weapons with the
standard rules you lose all benefits from SGL's and laser sights. You can use
the advanced rules from FoF but that requires you to effectively have an
ambidexterity skill that you must have on character creation, even then I don't
think that you gain the benefits from the SGL.

> 4) with vehicles: when they list cargo as 8CF cargo + 2CF storage they mean
> that the storage is just that un-available to mods right? or is this
> modifiable?

Eh ? I think crago of 8CF means actually loading space ie in the back of a
truck. The 2CF storage I would imagine to be spare space where you would
normally put mods and passengers, I'm not sure, been a long time since I read
that Black Book.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 11
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 12:49:36 -0400
phlat,
inresponse to your question on 'links and spurs. They do not come as
apair. You buy one smartlink setup or one spur (three on one hand is
more spensive). You want more? You pay more!

Nigel
Message no. 12
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 15:06:32 -0400
On Fri, 6 May 1994, Chris Lubrecht wrote:

> phlat,
> inresponse to your question on 'links and spurs. They do not come as
> apair. You buy one smartlink setup or one spur (three on one hand is
> more spensive). You want more? You pay more!
>
> Nigel
>
This is a GM call..The way we play is the Spurrs come in a pair and the
Smart Gun Link comes as a single [since most people are NOT ambidextrous]
expandable to a second Link if desired..as for confusing readouts..the
right readout could be coded red and the left one green or whetever your
preferance is....
-------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 13
From: Schnood <cdjworks@******.DIGEX.NET>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 16:31:43 -0400
>I personally always thought you got a twin set of spurs (both arms in one
>deal)
>but only one smartlink port (be it via datajack or induction pad). Some
of my
>characters have wanted two, and I sold them the second pad for a little less
>(like 75% of the base) =Y= and slightly less essence (again, about 75%)
'cause
>they already have all of the chrome in their head, they just need the wire.

Oh, speaking of this, I have a question relating to this thread. In the
SRII book it talks about characters using two guns. But it never says in
what capacity. Is it possible for a character weilding, say, two Ingram
Smartguns to fire 4 times a segment at whatever minuses it says? Or only
twice?

---
Instant karma is going to get him if I don't get him first. --U2
Message no. 14
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 16:29:17 -0700
On Fri, 6 May 1994, Schnood wrote:

> >I personally always thought you got a twin set of spurs (both arms in one
> >deal)
> >but only one smartlink port (be it via datajack or induction pad). Some
> of my
> >characters have wanted two, and I sold them the second pad for a little less
> >(like 75% of the base) =Y= and slightly less essence (again, about 75%)
> 'cause
> >they already have all of the chrome in their head, they just need the wire.
>
> Oh, speaking of this, I have a question relating to this thread. In the
> SRII book it talks about characters using two guns. But it never says in
> what capacity. Is it possible for a character weilding, say, two Ingram
> Smartguns to fire 4 times a segment at whatever minuses it says? Or only
> twice?
>
> ---
> Instant karma is going to get him if I don't get him first. --U2
>
This one is easy. Each Ingram may be fired at the normal rate
for the mode it's firing in (BF or FA) with the pluses to the TN for
firing two weapons at once added to the recoil penalties and any other
penalties for range, movement, et al.
IAW, yes, you may fire two bursts from each Ingram in one round.
Gonna be hard to hit anything with them, but you'll be a lead hose.
Message no. 15
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own - Reply
Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 14:03:36 -0400
I've seen characters with two smartgun links, one per hand, for entirely
non-munchkin reasons; they didn't want to be (relatively) helpless if
someone tagged their main hand hard enough to either take out the smartgun
link hardware or make holding a gun impossible.

Using two at once calls for penalties; just having two shouldn't.
I also generally allow people of dexterity 4/5 or better to be
automatically ambidextrous if they want it; call me soft, perhaps.

- cks
Message no. 16
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Irksome question of my own
Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 14:10:14 -0400
| No, what smartlinks allow is two things: cybernetic control of the
| gun (ie, shoot, eject clip, etc), and an indicator of where you are
| aiming.

First edition SR smartgun links are clearly more than mere targeting
indicators, as you can use them to *not* hit friendlies in the arc of
autofire; this is very fine and exacting control over the trigger. I
generally assume that the extra bonus from a SG link, and the essence
cost, is because it hooks in fairly well into your head, not just
your eyes -- you *know* who the gun will and won't hit, and you can
control this at the thought level, above just deciding when to pull
the trigger.

Mileage may vary, and I don't know if this particular ability made
it into second edition (I'd appreciate someone with 2nd edition
looking it up).

- cks

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